TF I never feed over 800 ppms. Bring up your feed slowley like 100ppms at a time. I feed most of the time at 500 to 600ppms when they get dark green then just water with calmag for a day or two. You can over feed with 500 ppms with to little run off.

As always, first off, big thanks to all of the people here at the farm. Without you, I would be guessing my way through my hiccups. Sory about the novel.

In the old days all I had was the indoor grower's handbook for info. Those seemed like simpler times. For me that was 4" rockwool cubes and powdered 1 part nutes. 20-10-20 for veg, 6-30-30 for flower. That was then.

Fast forward to many years later. Here I am making an attempt at growing in coco. Man have I got a lot to learn. So I have gotten some great advice from some senior farmers here that has been helpful, but leave it to me to still screw it up. Anyhow, it was recently pointed out to me, that I am lacking details in my thread on just exactly what I have been doing to these girls. I will do my best here.

The Chem Valley Kush and Sour OG are now at day 25 of flower.

As I stated in response to Motherlode,
The "pre charge" was flimsy and not more than 1 hr soak in RO w/ CaMg at 5ml per gal ph 5.8 No other nutes whatsoever.

Veg nutes once the girls were in veg. This strength was run for one month.

25g RO H20 @ 30ppm
125ml Botanicare CaMg+
100ml Canna Coco A
100ml Canna Coco B
125ml Cannazym
25ml Roots Excel
10ml Drip Clean

That came out to 5.7ph 860ppm. Other batches of the same mix 850-950 ppm. This is the same strength that I am feeding some seedlings with, that are less than 1' tall, just under T5. They look great.

For PH down I am using Grow More brand. For PH up I am using Grotek Pro-silicate.

Meters are Hanna tri-meters. Got 3, calibrate them at least once a month.

At this point waterings were once every other day, after lights on. I.E Feed, off day, Feed, off day, CaMg RO water @350 ppm, off day, repeat. To be clear, on feed days, I am watering with CaMg water for about 30 sec, to moisten the coco, then feed till I get a good amount of runoff.

They got that strength for about a month. After a couple of weeks, I checked runoff against the feed. PPMs going in were just about 900. Runoff was at 760.

Great White was mixed into some RO and top fed 1 day before the flip.

A couple of foliar feedings here and there. One 1.5 weeks before flip. Another 1 wk into flower.

Foliar
500ml OR H2O @30ppm
1.2ml Nirozym
.25ml CaMg

After 1 week in flower, I changed up the nutes a bit.

25g RO H20 @ 30ppm
125ml Botanicare CaMg+
150ml Canna Coco A
150ml Canna Coco B
150ml Cannazym
150ml Canna Boost
10ml Drip Clean
30ml +or- Grotek Pro-Silicate for PH up

PH'd to 5.7 PPM 1100

After 2 feedings it seemed that the plants were drying up too much in 2 days, so I then changed to once every day feedings. Same rotation. Feed, feed, water. Now at about 1 min CaMg H20 then 2 Min Feed.

It should also be stated that up to this point, all the lights were at 600w setting. At 2 weeks into flower, I bumped them up to the 1k setting. The hoods are adjust-a-wings. First time without air cooled lights for me. I'm pretty damn positive that I was over heating plants from the proximity of the hoods to the canopy. I have them raised up about as high as they can go at this point. The CVK girls are anywhere from 2.5 to 3.5 feet, while the Sour OG's are at least a foot taller. The tallest Sour OG is without a doubt, the most unhappy girl in the house.

Now I go through so much CaMg H20, at this point I am mixing up 90g at a time in one of my big tanks. I mix 90g RO H20 @ 30ppm with 450ml Botanicare CaMg+ and PH to 5.8 and ppm comes out to 350-380. Lasts me about a week.

Starting out week 3 feed
25g CaMg H20 @ 360ppm
125ml Canna Coco A
125ml Canna Coco B
150ml Cannazym
150 Canna Boost
125ml PK 13/14
10ml Drip Clean

PH'd to 5.9 1230 ppm

Week 3 day 2 another foliar feed, same formula.

That brings me to last Monday's nutes.

25g CaMg H20 @ 400ppm
150ml Canna Coco A
150ml Canna Coco B
150ml Cannazym
150ml Canna Boost
50ml Rhizotonic
10ml Drip clean

PH'd to 5.7 1220ppm

It was also pointed out to me that I am running too hot and dry in the room. I changed the setting on my CHHC to 70% to at least get the RH up. Now, the dehuey is not running at all during lights on. That has got to be a good sign.

Today is just CaMg water day.

Tank reading at feeding 6.1ph 370ppm. Last time I checked runoff it was with feed water. This is with CaMg water.

four samples.

First sample, is from the table section with my best looking CVK's.
6.2ph 680ppm

Second, also from CVK. #2 best health.
6.4ph 550ppm

Third, right from the worst plant directly. The too tall Sour OG.
6.7ph 430ppm

Now I will start it off with saying that I know just enough not to sniff paint. With that said, if I remember correctly a good farmer here told me to watch the runoff to see what they are eating. I guess the part my thick head did not get into it was that I should be doing that on a regular basis, as to learn every move your plants are making. After all, I am 100% noob (rhymes with boob) with so much of the ways of the coco, and the finer points on reading and feeding my plants. I am too busy building the shit out of something, to stop and watch the flowers grow. That has to be a new goal for me, to find that balance. Any way, rambling on...

It seems that the Sour OG is underfed compared to the others, based on the runoff. It would seem the opposite would be more likely. Again, please allow me to don my dunce cap.

Current canopy temps: Left front CVK 82f RH 63%. Right rear SOG 82f RH 51%. Rez temp 63.9f. I have more thermometers coming, so I can have at least 4 running to get a decent cross section of temps at different parts of the canopy. CO2 running from propane burner set @ 1200ppm. I just bumped it down to 1000ppm. I figure save a little heat from the burner. AC is pretty much maxed now. The thermostat is set on 72, fan high. Still just stays at 80. Maybe I will have to bump down the wattage on at least a couple of the hoods. I really don't want to if it is not necessary.

I snapped a couple of pics to show some problem areas. Gotta change computers to post em up. Be right back,

-TF

Pics

Chem Valley Kush. What's hiding here?


That doesn't look good.:sad0104:


More suspicious activity


Closer up


Chem Valley Kush looks good here. These are the right front.


Sour OG looking a little heat stressed.


Too tall Sour OG. Most stressed girl in the house. Too close to the 1k for her own good.


Just a bit on a CVK on the right front.


Lower leaf problem. I believe it to be related.


There it all is. The worst that I got. The room looks clear of any pests as well, just to mention.

Any input is always helpful. Thanks a lot guys,

-TF

TF looking at your last photo do you see all the little shit down low cut that out all the dead stuff and little stuff to. Your CALMAG use General Organics CaMg+ It has no food in it 0-0-0. You have a K lock out thats Y your stems are Red and the yellowing of the leaf with the brown spots. Get some BIG BUD powder 1-17-38 this will help and get you back on track. Run 10 mils of calmag of the General Organics. DO a good flush then feed at 6mils A and B then 10 mils calmag per gl 1 1/2 teaspoon of Big Bud per 5gls. PH at 6 to 6.2.

thanks for sharing more info Tf. dont be sorry about a novel. the more we know the more we got to help you out.

they do need some help with that lockout.

from the posting I got the impression the lockout issue was already solved and they were back on track and then having another issue, when looks like the 1st problem was never solved.

I usually do this after going for the flush and bumping calmg, watch to see if they drink up the runoff. then usually see new healthy growth and can slowly bring the ppm back up. while watching em closely.

an example of flush to try and correct a lockout.
flush = i got 1200 going in. I run (300ppm or so) calmg + water through it till I get run off into check.

I also add a saucer to catch some of the run off if in a tray. or can jst pick up a plant and feel em or use a moisture meter (or all three)

I check after running some water through em, is runoff 300?

yes, now I wait until the next lights on period. did the plants drink water? usually if the lockout was corrected, they will drink up water (shwon by moisture meter, lifting plants, or checking a saucer) and I will see new growth overnight and/or they will be looking better.

then I now start feeding at a lower ppm, do not feed again at 1200, start at 6-800 and slowly bring it up.

let say they did not perk up, then they may need another day without food and just water.
I usually start at 600 w clones, go to 600-800 for veg. 7-800 for transition, stepping up to 1000-1200 MAX by week 4 of flower. that if general and for the heavier feeding strain.

need to watch em and experiment with what works best.

sometimes this is easier to do by hand. just go get an idea of how the coco works and get the learning curve down.

few observations and tips:

I like to get en dialed in and adjusted to 1000watts in veg, before going to flower. that really helps to have a seamless flowering period

keep it simple, less changes = less factors to figure out what is wrong.

gotta really watch em when running more than one strain and different height plants. Some plants are eating more than others need some individual attention. (example: taller plant closer to light will eat more food than smaller plant farther away from the light of same strain)

can you top feed any of those plants by hand or with a wand easily?

lots of good advice here, hopefully more canna and coco users can chime in more.

hope that helps, all make sense and please let us know how it goes.

I already mentioned the phosphorous issues, looking like you're developing a K problem possibly, too. I would have to say that they're not happy with the current temp + RH combination, either, based on the downward curve and slight folding in of the leaves.

And...! Reading what JPLord has to say, I think the course of action outlined would be appropriate and should resolve these slight issues. I see the P problem as the predominant issue.

I think these charts may be helpful for you.

Thanks JP. I don't have any of the big bud in my inventory. I have some Grotek monster bloom powder, though. I have been crazy at work, so I am glad the weekend is here, so I can have time to try to get this handled. I will check on that CaMg as well. Have you tried any other nutes than the H&G stuff?

Lead,
good lookin out, man. I always appreciate a good explanation. I gotta get my jankey irrigation system fixed up this weekend as well, so I can have more even watering. I do believe that factor may be contributing to the issues that I am currently experiencing.

Seamaiden,
thanks for the help. I know that I have seen some of those charts before, but there is nothing handier than having them right here. Awesome.

I will check back in with y'all after I get some time in there this weekend.

-TF

have you tried using, tap water? in cali the tap is mostly decent, and canna is designed to be used with tap water. people who use ro end up adding calmag to supplement. ive been using canna since day one with tap, and have had nothing but healthy plants. bought a bottle of calmag before starting, and haven't even broke the seal yet. i only suggest because a lot of first time coco growers hang on to their roots of clean ro water, and are usually left in a flurry of " whats wrong with these plants".

how did your old powdered fertilizers work for you? it's funny how your 2-1-2 and 1-5-5 are almost identical to coco grow, 3-1-2, and ripe, 1-5-4. what's old is new. new isn't necessarily better than old...and usually costs more.

frankly ALL 16 elements are 'food'. why do you feed them with a terribly unbalanced formula as a 'flush'? if you need to add that much calmag to your base nutes, why not start with something with more N and Ca? try cns17 coco bloom or even grow - even GH 6M-9B has high calcium. drop the other additives. my .02.

I make a 2-5-6 that's used throughout flower. my formula is slightly Ca deficient (for coco), and still yields chunky, sticky buds. The plants never get more than 1.8 mS and pH was 5.4-5.8 - run off is 6.0-6.2. hth

just found this thread. Subscribed. Awesome cleanliness th. This thread will def. help me whan I run the side by side MPB vs. coco.

Booyah Kasha!

Thanks guys. I truly appreciate all the support.

smirkis, tap here in the SFV is not so great with all the crap in the water. I think that I can get it worked out with the RO.

Crysmatic, I kicked ass with those ol' powders. 4" rockwool w/ plants flipped at under 1'. Averaged .75 a plant no CO2, 1 oz a plant with. Under only 400's and 600's. On this run, I just have to get my nute levels right. I do have some CNS on the shelf for next run. I will be doing a little nute side by side test.

Capulator, Thanks for the props. Stay tuned, more fun to come.

I've Been keeping my nose to the grindstone figuring out the nature of my nute problem. Everybody here has been so helpful. Each and everybody's contribution has lead me down the path to what I believe to be the answer. After conversing with some more experienced farmers, I believe that I have nailed the problem! :lock:


It would seem that the Hanna tri-meter is on a .7 conversion scale. That means that I have actually been feeding the plants a much lighter concentration than I thought. I was going off the Canna nute calculator that they have on the website. I selected light feeding, and reduced that dosage. Combine that, with the extra watering that I have been giving the coco with the Cal Mag water before each feeding, and you have some hungry ass girls! A good flush with more water in between a couple of light meals was just a little cherry on top. So, just for good measure, I invested in a Truncheon to now be my official EC meter. I will now believe in the fact that Canna is actually engineered for the application, and apply it exactly as per their directions. Imagine that, just read the label. Funny. I'm sure that there is a bit more than that, but that will be the new starting point. I believe problems no more. Wish me luck. We shall see in the weeks to come how this fairy tale ends.....

-TF

Oh... don't even get me started on SoCal water and that whole "water scene." (I ran for a seat in local government down there, small city, many years ago, got m'self an edumucation on water and politics I hadn't anticipated.)

The thing with most tap munis is that it's being pushed through metal pipes that will deteriorate too quickly if the water isn't made alkaline, which also makes it a high pH, often around 8.0 or so. Great for saltwater fish and African cichlids, not so great for anything else. Then in SoCal, if it's coming from one of the few wells in the area (La Mirada, HUGE well is owned by another city that sells that water) then it's likely the water has been sitting in limestone after having passed through limestone. Again, hard, alkaline = difficult to shift pH and so it remains high, in my experience again around 8.0-8.5.

Trichrome, may I recommend learning how to use uS (EC) measurements instead of going by ppm? Much more accurate, translatable (but only with chem salt ferts is good accuracy possible)? I learned it by switching back and forth, look at ppms, look at uS, mark both, suddenly I know it when I look at it. :)

best of luck! show us the trichs :)

Yes! Sir, was going to suggest fan at light level! I used an ocsolating pole fan at light level. Box fans are the shit too..and cheap! Lol..monkey5

I hope you can get your nutes down right! Nice selection of plants! Nice looking clean set up! monkey5

TrichromeFan said:

I've Been keeping my nose to the grindstone figuring out the nature of my nute problem. Everybody here has been so helpful. Each and everybody's contribution has lead me down the path to what I believe to be the answer. After conversing with some more experienced farmers, I believe that I have nailed the problem! :lock:


It would seem that the Hanna tri-meter is on a .7 conversion scale. That means that I have actually been feeding the plants a much lighter concentration than I thought. I was going off the Canna nute calculator that they have on the website. I selected light feeding, and reduced that dosage. Combine that, with the extra watering that I have been giving the coco with the Cal Mag water before each feeding, and you have some hungry ass girls! A good flush with more water in between a couple of light meals was just a little cherry on top. So, just for good measure, I invested in a Truncheon to now be my official EC meter. I will now believe in the fact that Canna is actually engineered for the application, and apply it exactly as per their directions. Imagine that, just read the label. Funny. I'm sure that there is a bit more than that, but that will be the new starting point. I believe problems no more. Wish me luck. We shall see in the weeks to come how this fairy tale ends.....

-TF

Click to expand...

Happy to hear your getting it worked out!!. Thanks for sharing your findings. Wishing you a quick rebound

-lead

Seamaiden,
I'm sure you're right. I have lots of mineral buildup on regular plumbing fixtures. Good news on the EC. My new Truncheon will be my only meter for nute concentration testing from now on. EC it is.

Crysmatic, trichs are coming!

Happy Easter everyone.

-TF

Monkey, thanks man. More fan play is on my short list.

Lead, I believe I am bouncin back with a vengeance. Thanks much.

-TF

i was gonna suggest u were feeding pretty light on the base nutes. i also use a hanna and use a minimum of 7ml per gal of a&b on the babies usually, and up to 10-12ml per gal on teens/flowering. my main rule of thumb, never more additives then actual food. canna's feeding schedule website is a great starting point. if u select that u have a hanna meter and a starting point ppm or ec, they give u a feeding schedule. other then adjusting the cannazyme a bit, i only ad silica and have had great results.

smirkis said:

i was gonna suggest u were feeding pretty light on the base nutes. i also use a hanna and use a minimum of 7ml per gal of a&b on the babies usually, and up to 10-12ml per gal on teens/flowering. my main rule of thumb, never more additives then actual food. canna's feeding schedule website is a great starting point. if u select that u have a hanna meter and a starting point ppm or ec, they give u a feeding schedule. other then adjusting the cannazyme a bit, i only ad silica and have had great results.

Click to expand...

Oh sure, now ya tell me:D

The funny thing is that using the Canna calculator online, I selected Hanna for the meter, but the charts reflected .5 conversion numbers. At this point, I have other farmer's advice reflecting the same statement on nute concentration, and following Canna's guidelines. I also like the silica. I use it as a substitute for PH up.


-TF