Colorado Clone Distributors SUCK !

[true grit]

I recently treated with Eagle 20 and the PM came back up on The White. Fungi can and do develop resistance to single-site mode products. In fact, I started a thread on it. That means that 100% treatability is not the truth, not factual.

And that seques neatly into what another friend was discussing with me about how pot growers really don't like to follow rules and don't know how, don't understand the product they're working with when using stuff like Eagle 20.

I still say that if you can't source good quality clones, add that to the business model.

We, collectively, are creating our very own morass throwing all this shit at our plants, and many barely bother to read the label enough to know dosing.

I still say that if you can't source quality clones, add that to the business model.

Actually it is 100% treatable. But if you do not remove the fungi from the environment when you add a systemic....then it of course will come back. If you can't clean a room/grow, then spraying Eagle20 will only keep away PM until its out of the plants system (E20) then its totally capable of contracting it again. Hence- completely cleaning your grow and using a systemic. This has nothing to do with single product application, it has all to do with a complete treatment- not a spot treatment. To be able to beat it down in a perpetual room I had to use a Fungaflor bomb in combination. Now we have Actinovate to use, that many homies have been using with great success. But yes its beatable. Quaratine and knock it back.

if you use eagle 20 and it comes back you need to clean your room.

Exactly. That being the main thing- spot treatments on plants (systemic/surface sprays) are only as effective as the rest of treatment/environment.

 

[hemployed]

+1 for Actinovate. It's a great product, been using it for a long time now as a preventative with excellent results.

 

[Simple]

Hello Farmers

Its all about the farmer, knowledge, and genetics. Growers who care about what they put out, grow good weed. Weed can grow pretty much anywhere, its a weed. But to put out the dankest of the dank, without mold/pests, regardless of where it comes from, that takes a Grower who knows what he/she is doing, give time and put love into the plant... and some fine genetics doesn't hurt. Just my two cents, Im new here. But not new to farming :)

I can definitely say that seeds are the way to go!! Know your genetics! There are genetics that are mold resistant.

 

[DoobyScoo]

Some people where saying that the Sulfur burner will coat your room, but if one Fungaflof bomb will do the trick, then yeah, I'll leave out the Sulfur.
Going to be bleaching surfaces, too, ofcourse.

 

[Seamaiden]

Actually it is 100% treatable.

It is indeed, but I'm going to ask you a very pointed question as you bandy about Eagle 20 as the be-all, end-all to powdery mildew.

Did you read the entire label?

But if you do not remove the fungi from the environment when you add a systemic....then it of course will come back. If you can't clean a room/grow, then spraying Eagle20 will only keep away PM until its out of the plants system (E20) then its totally capable of contracting it again. Hence- completely cleaning your grow and using a systemic. This has nothing to do with single product application, it has all to do with a complete treatment- not a spot treatment. To be able to beat it down in a perpetual room I had to use a Fungaflor bomb in combination. Now we have Actinovate to use, that many homies have been using with great success. But yes its beatable. Quaratine and knock it back.

Before you posted this did you do any research on my treatment methods and approach? I'll ask you again, did you or have you read the label on your container of Eagle 20?

If so, did you catch any of the more important bits? For instance, the fact that it's a single-site mode of action on the fungi? Do you know what that is (without Googling before answering me)? Do you know how microbes can react to single-site mode products? Did you know that fungi can and DO develop resistance to products such as Eagle 20?

To be sure, when the plants were indoors I was treating everything, all surfaces, not just the plants. One can, obviously, only do so much when there are things like exposed wood in that environment. So, telling me I have a dirty room (because that's what you and thump are hinting at) could be a possibility but I have NEVER seen another grow room/area as clean as mine. Also, I did happen to keep that in mind as I treated every surface I could get to with Eagle 20 (not bleach).
(Sorry to those I've visited, it's the truth, clean your room!)

I followed application directions very closely, because I'm an anal label-reader. To assume that I didn't do something right may be correct, but I'm not the typical grower who just throws money at problems in the hopes of finding a solution. I think, consider, read read READ as much as I can find, maybe ask questions, then go on from there.

In my personal opinion, since this particular mother cut of The White is one I've had for years and it came with PM that I treated when it came in and never showed it again, is that I may be dealing with a strain of powdery mildew that has become resistant to Eagle 20.

And the more we have assholes who just insist that the "new" product is the end-all, be-all and the only answer, the first answer to disease control and suppression, the more we're gonna have resistant pests and disease. Spider mites resistant to NPS wasn't good enough for us, eh?

MORE people should know, accept and understand that overuse and misapplication of Eagle 20 can and does make resistant fungi.

IF you're up to it, get your knowledge on.

 

[mendel]

I increased my nitetime ventilation and treated my motherplants w eagle20 and I never had pm again. Truth be told, most yrs the colorado environment/humidity isnt in what id call the 'pm' window, its just too dry, unless you allow humidity to build up in your space. Most folk have pm because they dont know how to properly run their ventilation.

 

[DoobyScoo]

To be sure, when the plants were indoors I was treating everything, all surfaces, not just the plants....Also, I did happen to keep that in mind as I treated every surface I could get to with Eagle 20 (not bleach).

I wouldn't spray my entire room with Eagle 20. That shit is nasty, and it's a waste of money, when you can just bleach the shit.
You may have inadvertently created a super-strain yourself???
:evilgrin0040:

Ofcourse ppl like Lazyman on Spicymag could have done that too, with the 'spray and pray' attitude.

 

[Seamaiden]

Have you found something that shows that bleach is a 100% reliable antiseptic? Because I haven't. I hit every surface I thought the fungus could have touched. I used the product according to directions, at recommended rates, not some rate I pulled out of my rear end, and in the recommended manner. I've never used it prior to this round of Tx, so I'm not sure how I could have managed to create a superbug so quickly, but if you think that's a likelihood then let me ask you this--how is it all the others who use it so religiously haven't?

True antiseptic means using those types of products. Physan would be a start, but I can't say it's appropriate for all surfaces, nor can I state unequivocally it kills everything 100%. I know bleach does not, though, and I often wonder why it's recommended as a means by which to sanitize/sterilize an area.

 

[mendel]

Bleach is some nasty caustic shit, ive known more than one jackass who used it to clean in a closed room and burnt their lungs. I find mr clean antibacterial to work well for room cleanup, and it doesnt give off toxic fumes.

As well, 6 month old bleach has only about half the disinfecting power as newly made bleach, it offgasses like mad and is basically devoid of any of its 'redeeming' qualities by the time its a yr old.

 

[true grit]

It is indeed, but I'm going to ask you a very pointed question as you bandy about Eagle 20 as the be-all, end-all to powdery mildew.

To be sure, when the plants were indoors I was treating everything, all surfaces, not just the plants. One can, obviously, only do so much when there are things like exposed wood in that environment. So, telling me I have a dirty room (because that's what you and thump are hinting at) could be a possibility but I have NEVER seen another grow room/area as clean as mine. Also, I did happen to keep that in mind as I treated every surface I could get to with Eagle 20 (not bleach).
(Sorry to those I've visited, it's the truth, clean your room!)

In my personal opinion, since this particular mother cut of The White is one I've had for years and it came with PM that I treated when it came in and never showed it again, is that I may be dealing with a strain of powdery mildew that has become resistant to Eagle 20.

And the more we have assholes who just insist that the "new" product is the end-all, be-all and the only answer, the first answer to disease control and suppression, the more we're gonna have resistant pests and disease. Spider mites resistant to NPS wasn't good enough for us, eh?

Have you found something that shows that bleach is a 100% reliable antiseptic? Because I haven't. I hit every surface I thought the fungus could have touched. I used the product according to directions, at recommended rates, not some rate I pulled out of my rear end, and in the recommended manner. I've never used it prior to this round of Tx, so I'm not sure how I could have managed to create a superbug so quickly, but if you think that's a likelihood then let me ask you this--how is it all the others who use it so religiously haven't?

True antiseptic means using those types of products. Physan would be a start, but I can't say it's appropriate for all surfaces, nor can I state unequivocally it kills everything 100%. I know bleach does not, though, and I often wonder why it's recommended as a means by which to sanitize/sterilize an area.

Ok Sea, let me start by saying this is one of those- it didn't work for you, so you must have the answer convos like many before. But you are incorrect. Again, its a proof is in the pudding thing, which apparently you are having problems with. I'm trying to give reasonable and functional treatments...but here you again. lol.

1. Using bleach/eagle20/etc to clean your room simply will not do it. Period. That is your first problem. Unless you do fog/smoke bomb that hits every crevasse- YOU are not going to be able to eliminate the millions of spores in your room.

I don't care how "clean" your room appears- its not. By the time you visually see a spore on a plant- your room has so many spores you have no chance. I have tried this and that yada yada, but unless you completely empty a room and smoke/fog it out, I really doubt even a systemic (such as Eagle20) will be successful. But this was suggested earlier as well. Only time I've seen Eagle20 alone be successful is in isolated/quarantined veg/clone spaces that are much smaller than bloom room.

2. I'd be willing to bet you do not have some special "resistant" pm strain. Again, if its lingered since you beat it or even popped back up- You did not eliminate it from your grow room or got it since. Again, spraying every place you think spores could be is simply not effective enough to eliminate the problem.

People aren't pulling PM's suggestions out of the ass- they are saying what works. Eagle20 and the like that are systemic are excellent means of treatment- period. They are more than successful for many a grower. As are systemic fungal bombs like I suggested...or the Actinovate that was suggested. Get your knowledge on.

 

[Seamaiden]

TG, did you even actually read my post, link? Or did you do what you are often wont to do and immediately jump into the "How am I gonna tear this down" mindset? You are extremely prone to that sort of thing, makes it appear as though you haven't given much thought to what you're responding to.

 

[true grit]

What more do I need to read? You already explained your problem/failure to beat pm. What you are saying is a "clean/sprayed" room is not. And you are trying to blame people using Eagle20/chems/systemics to point of overuse, creating super PM strains, and making it benign- because you still have PM. None of that is necessarily case, just do things completely and you wouldn't be draggin it on. Period.

And no its not me tearing down a mindset- its me wading thru the BULLSHIT like usual and trying to help folks avoid all the CRAP thats on the internet....from experience and success- not just opinion and idea.

Bet you didn't even look up the Actinovate yet. lol. Or Fungaflor (go ahead you can tell me how bad that is for people/crops/etc too :evilgrin0040:)

 

[kuz]

Maybe the PM is always present. I never had an issue then the other day see a bunch of white powder on a leaf of a plant in the cloner. I got the cloner out of the room but now I have to wait and see if it shows up on the mothers and other veg plants that were around it, if it does it probably goes on to the flower room. It must of came in on my shoes or clothes, or maybe its just there waiting for a place to grow.

Anybody try the product from theothertomato.com? They claim is can kill and prevent mold and mildew. Bacillus, lactobacillus, saccharomyces, enterococcus, fulvic, aminos, molasses, trace elements and b vitamens, all in one. Maybe similar to actinovate.

 

[Seamaiden]

TG, I honestly don't think you have an accurate picture of the situation I personally have been dealing with. You don't know the growing situation, you don't know my physical location and its proximity to heavy agriculture, I'm willing to bet you didn't even read the link I provided to the thread I started on resistance in fungi to single-site mode products like Eagle 20.

I'm not saying that "someone gave me resistant PM," either. I'm saying I may be dealing with that, though I personally haven't finished chewing on it. I find it interesting that the ONLY cut to come back with it is The White, but again, that's me, chewing. This comes after months of waging failing battle after failing battle with the PM vectored by root aphids. Yes, it took me a while to accept that what I was seeing may be root aphids, and no, I didn't fully appreciate what that might all encompass.

It is a scientifically valid statement to say that powdery mildew can become resistant to certain types of fungicides. Period. You can stomp, you can holler, you can insist til you're blue in the face, it won't change the valid scientific facts.

The first thing you did was jump in to say that I must have done something wrong, i.e. tear me down. You like to go around saying that you call yourself true grit because you speak the truth, but you won't even qualify that to the degree of admitting that it's YOUR truth, you just immediately tell people what they're saying is bullshit, which equates to shutting them down. Certainly doesn't leave open debate, does it?

I have at least a small clue of how to handle diseases and treatment. Having worked at a (very good) public aquarium, including with the staff vet, having raised quite a lot of my own animals since childhood that required our own vetting gave me some really good practice at things like reading the label, completely.

The other products are products I personally haven't researched in any way, shape or form, let alone used. So, why would I even attempt to speak on them? Do you even have a point in bringing them up?

 

[true grit]

Maybe the PM is always present. I never had an issue then the other day see a bunch of white powder on a leaf of a plant in the cloner. I got the cloner out of the room but now I have to wait and see if it shows up on the mothers and other veg plants that were around it, if it does it probably goes on to the flower room. It must of came in on my shoes or clothes, or maybe its just there waiting for a place to grow.

Anybody try the product from theothertomato.com? They claim is can kill and prevent mold and mildew. Bacillus, lactobacillus, saccharomyces, enterococcus, fulvic, aminos, molasses, trace elements and b vitamens, all in one. Maybe similar to actinovate.

Yes, PM is everywhere. And NO absolutely DO NOT WAIT to see if it spreads, taking care of diseases, pests, etc breaks down to preventative maintenance. Now that you have seen it on a plant- get a systemic such as Eagle20 and spray your veg plants/moms and prevent any spreading to further runs/healthy plants. Jump on it.

And yep sounds like actinovate- bacteria etc that deal with the issue.

 

[true grit]

TG, I honestly don't think you have an accurate picture of the situation I personally have been dealing with. You don't know the growing situation, you don't know my physical location and its proximity to heavy agriculture, I'm willing to bet you didn't even read the link I provided to the thread I started on resistance in fungi to single-site mode products like Eagle 20.

I'm not saying that "someone gave me resistant PM," either. I'm saying I may be dealing with that, though I personally haven't finished chewing on it. I find it interesting that the ONLY cut to come back with it is The White, but again, that's me, chewing. This comes after months of waging failing battle after failing battle with the PM vectored by root aphids. Yes, it took me a while to accept that what I was seeing may be root aphids, and no, I didn't fully appreciate what that might all encompass.

It is a scientifically valid statement to say that powdery mildew can become resistant to certain types of fungicides. Period. You can stomp, you can holler, you can insist til you're blue in the face, it won't change the valid scientific facts.

The first thing you did was jump in to say that I must have done something wrong, i.e. tear me down. You like to go around saying that you call yourself true grit because you speak the truth, but you won't even qualify that to the degree of admitting that it's YOUR truth, you just immediately tell people what they're saying is bullshit, which equates to shutting them down. Certainly doesn't leave open debate, does it?

I have at least a small clue of how to handle diseases and treatment. Having worked at a (very good) public aquarium, including with the staff vet, having raised quite a lot of my own animals since childhood that required our own vetting gave me some really good practice at things like reading the label, completely.

The other products are products I personally haven't researched in any way, shape or form, let alone used. So, why would I even attempt to speak on them? Do you even have a point in bringing them up?

You are right, I do not know your exact locale or situation- but I can GUARANTEE that you are not some special circumstance in the least. I'm saying I'm sure I know people in your area, around your area...bla bla bla- point being, you are not beating PM- most of them do- so there is still some obstacle you are not overcoming. my points have been attempts to help ya with that obstacle. but whatever. Shit I already pointed out the inadequacies in your attack of PM...maybe look at those SIMPLE things before jumping to conclusions while chewing on it. And though I totally understand dealing with aquariums, etc- cannabis is something of its own, seen even the best gardeners struggle with cannabis. Its a mass of trial and error, and some of us have been going through that for some time or on larger scale and try to pass that on.

And yes, I tear down stupid assumptions, bullshit and statements immediately. some of us are tired of seeing crap and incorrect assumptions/opinions are obviously a plenty...such as not being able to beat pm.

And of course you didn't look at those other products that would help your situation- you would rather try to prove a stupid "what if" just to show its a stupid "what if", instead of listening to actual suggestions from the first damn post. An incorrect statement led to possible solutions to your issue, keep trying to prove a point like you always try to, or actually take some steps to improve your grow. Plain and simple.

 

[DoobyScoo]

TG-
Don't argue with the ignorant.
They'll bring you down to their level,
And beat you based upon experience.

 

[kuz]

Yes, PM is everywhere. And NO absolutely DO NOT WAIT to see if it spreads, taking care of diseases, pests, etc breaks down to preventative maintenance. Now that you have seen it on a plant- get a systemic such as Eagle20 and spray your veg plants/moms and prevent any spreading to further runs/healthy plants. Jump on it.

And yep sounds like actinovate- bacteria etc that deal with the issue.

I jumped on it with the All-Phase, I want to wait and see if it works. Its just a small grow, not a big deal, I'll use the Eagle 20 if this doesnt work. If I had more at stake would probably jump right in with Eagle 20. Havent looked over any of Seamaidens links, seems to be something about the way Eagle 20 works, makes it more likely PM would become resistant. I agree with you, its a big "what if", but if I can find something without risk. And the actinovate gets good reviews.

 

[true grit]

Dooby- lol, and agreed- but look what that nonsense has started...

Kuz- Sorry but lots use it (successfully), its not gonna create some amazing resistance or it wouldn't be working still for most. Seamaiden is trippin and putting obviously unnecessary concern. If its not used correctly, or in coordination with a full treatment- then yeah it won't work. Eagle20 does not work as a simple surface disinfectant, its for plants (key being systemic), so if you don't get rid of it on the surfaces other than plants- theres still spores.

Get advice from people who have beat PM, not folks who are throwing out ideas. Sorry but just saying. And IMO start looking into the bacterial foliars as preventatives if you are concerned....ie Actinovate.

 

[Dr. Evil]

eagle20 for the plants and sulphur burner treatments for lingering spores = the motherfuckin win!