Colorado Cracking Down On Pot Pesticides After Toxic Chemicals Discovered

[50YardLine]

I was king at quarters. Went to Disney land and scored a set of two headed and two tailed quarters.

 

[epitome]

It's the transference of energy of naivety trickling down from the top starting with the "smartest" guy saying to the owner/master gardner, "trust me, those potheads can't tell."

How's that saying go, "fool me once, shame on you, heh, fool me twice well you can't get fooled again..."
Some ting like that

 

[xavier7995]

Wow,......just wow.

Curious what this is about. Personally I am not sold on the 100% organic approach and don't have a problem with chemicals/pesticides/etc. Not sure where I saw it, but some quote to the effect that MJ growers were like fundamentalists religious folks in refusing to believe modern science is better then 2000 year old methods. I don't knock people going fully organic, but I think the hardcore refusal to look at what the Ag industry has done and is using is self defeating.

I still haven't seen solid hard science that it is OK to use this product, however, I haven't really seen anything to the contrary either. Just groups of folks arguing back and forth, but not really getting anywhere.

edit: I would like to point out I have never used E20 or any of these toxic things. My PM showed up a couple of weeks into flower so it was all greencure all the way. I just dont think doing something like treating clones before bringing them into your garden is a terrible idea.

 

[Seamaiden]

All you have to do is look at the MSDS and white papers, @xavier7995

The carriers used are indeed problematic and are why E20 is on several special handling & disposal designation lists. And, the active ingredient itself is known to cause resistance, and not only pretty quickly, but it's already happening. I observed it the one and only time I used it myself.

I had a HUGE thread on the resistance issue it several years ago, but it disappeared when the forum was moved over onto new servers. But the thing is that, assuming you've purchased a properly labeled bottle, you'll see all the problems with it right there.

If NOTHING else, those who don't ascribe to organic tenets and feel chemicals are A-OK, you should be reading every label and then some, learning what each and every acronym, designation and protocol is, or you shouldn't be using it. Period.

Curious what this is about. Personally I am not sold on the 100% organic approach and don't have a problem with chemicals/pesticides/etc. Not sure where I saw it, but some quote to the effect that MJ growers were like fundamentalists religious folks in refusing to believe modern science is better then 2000 year old methods. I don't knock people going fully organic, but I think the hardcore refusal to look at what the Ag industry has done and is using is self defeating.

Until you start really examining what the current conventional agricultural model has done and is doing to us, the environment, animals, the planet, etc. It is not a model to entirely be emulated, especially with regard to the chemical mindset/paradigm. You've got some reading to do.

 

[sixstring]

Hekp was used to clean up hazardous sites many years ago because it is an accumulative plant.it takes from the soil and holds it better than alot of other plants,look it up lol.so to say you can just flush nutes or harmful chems from Marijuana is wrong imo and your def fooling yourself to think a chemical like E20 ,which has a longer than average residual effect on plants,will be safe for consumption after just a few weeks.
We should be looking at what our NPK is made from more as growers,forget pesticides, just our nute profiles can be derived from elements that are harmfull to humans.and our plants will hold on to those chems all through flushing for a week or 2.take a look at how your phosphorus is made,do they remove the nasties like they would for food grade phosphates?msds sheets should provide numbers on arsenic and other bad chems.its all there if you look it up.

 

[Seamaiden]

Yep. Especially with how easy it is to find all kinds of information nowadays as compared to just 30yrs ago (is it ok to call it "just"?). I remember when it was a big deal for me to get the business-to-business yellow pages. And a good encyclopedia? OMG. I remember contacting manufacturer after manufacturer, trying to get spectral graph information on their bulbs back in the 80s, and it was a process.

The problem is that I believe a lot of these chemicals are being sold essentially illegally, without proper labeling, and are then being used off-label because there is no label. I received a ziploc baggie from an eBay vendor of Gnatrol, with a single home-printed label that simply said "Gnatrol" and then two sets of dosing instructions. That was *it*. Because I have an operators license in my county, it's really easy for me to get online and look up what's reportable and what isn't and believe you me, Gnatrol *must* be reported and therefore the product absolutely *must* have certain packaging should your property be inspected.

Before people say it shouldn't be this way, let me remind you that there are a lot of idiots in this world and when something goes wrong, we all go screaming to the government demanding answers and that can only be done by creating a massive trail of paperwork.

 

[chickenman]

We are 100% organic on our farm.
32 30 t0 50 foot rows of all sorts of veggies.
We have never once needed any chemicals on our veggies or other plants..
IMO If everything is healthy to begin with one can do without hazardous chemicals.
Seems to me problems arise more so with plants that are weaker.
Grass hoppers last year did some damage only in certain areas. The problem was mitigated with netting...
mites are controlled with neem and a refined mineral oil foliar sprayed every 7 to 10 days or as needed.
Prevents a lot of issues.
Also use fresh raw diluted goats milk and or whey, foliar spray, great for plants and will never have mold issues....

 

[chickenman]

then again we are small scale, whole different game with tons of plants.

 

[xavier7995]

All you have to do is look at the MSDS and white papers, @xavier7995

You've got some reading to do.

Actually, was just reading a thread about that stuff, very informative. My takeaway from it is that resistance is definitely an issue and that you need to rotate products. Agree 100%. Lots of the research quoted in that thread though seemed to indicate you would have to really try and use products totally wrong in order to have it have a negative health effect on humans. I was not at all advocating spraying this stuff on flowers or even near flower plants, I stated that I used greencure as I was too far along to use e20. Used in week 2 of a 4 week veg, with a 2 month flower cycle....so you are looking at 10 weeks, not a couple, I would think it would have worked its way through the plant.

Did you use the unlabeled plastic baggie of gnatrol? How did you even know it was the product advertised? That sounds so shady, why not just get it retail?

Not at all trying to fight about the issue, just debate:) I get the arguments against the products, but I guess I am just a skeptic, and the science (to me at least), shows that used properly this product isn't harmful. Actually, I haven't even seen anyone ever advocate using the stuff as directed, I concur 14 days is way too soon, but 60+ seems very reasonable.

edit: I can't believe I am defending chemicals. I really do just like to debate stuff. I really just got into trying to figure out a good solution that would let me feel safe bringing outside clones into my area.

 

[xavier7995]

me rambling

Honestly, doing some more reading around here, this sure is a touchy freaking topic for people. Just going to drop it, meh, greencure did work fine for me but I just had a very small bit of PM show up and got right on it. Really was just looking to evaluate some options for the future.

 

[LocalGrowGuy]

We are 100% organic on our farm.
32 30 t0 50 foot rows of all sorts of veggies.
We have never once needed any chemicals on our veggies or other plants..
IMO If everything is healthy to begin with one can do without hazardous chemicals.
Seems to me problems arise more so with plants that are weaker.
Grass hoppers last year did some damage only in certain areas. The problem was mitigated with netting...
mites are controlled with neem and a refined mineral oil foliar sprayed every 7 to 10 days or as needed.
Prevents a lot of issues.
Also use fresh raw diluted goats milk and or whey, foliar spray, great for plants and will never have mold issues....

I use age old calibur 20 as a calcium supplement, and it is labeled as a preventive for sun damage and pest prevention.

Do you have a preference on the manufacturer of your mineral oil?

Honestly, doing some more reading around here, this sure is a touchy freaking topic for people. Just going to drop it, meh, greencure did work fine for me but I just had a very small bit of PM show up and got right on it. Really was just looking to evaluate some options for the future.

There is a product called Plant Doctor made by Organocide.

Been effective for me so far as a systemic preventive.

 

[Seamaiden]

Did you use the unlabeled plastic baggie of gnatrol? How did you even know it was the product advertised? That sounds so shady, why not just get it retail?

I thought I was, just at a better price. I did use it, and didn't see what I'd hoped to see (in terms of the pest control I was using it for). Needless to say I've gone with other sources now.

Not at all trying to fight about the issue, just debate:) I get the arguments against the products, but I guess I am just a skeptic, and the science (to me at least), shows that used properly this product isn't harmful. Actually, I haven't even seen anyone ever advocate using the stuff as directed, I concur 14 days is way too soon, but 60+ seems very reasonable.

I get you there. I do the exact same thing. I even do it to myself. There is nothing wrong at all with using critical thinking skills, in this area or any other.

edit: I can't believe I am defending chemicals. I really do just like to debate stuff. I really just got into trying to figure out a good solution that would let me feel safe bringing outside clones into my area.

With specific regard to PM, you may want to do some of the same research I've done. For example, the first thing I did was look for any studies, papers or articles that discussed PM's relationship to human disease, disorders or sensitivities. I have, to this date, found nothing that discusses ill health results outside of allergies caused by ingesting or smoking any plant material that exhibits the fruiting bodies of PM. Not a thing.

Furthermore, I know that when we observe PM, what we're observing are merely the fruiting bodies. Most everyone who's done any research on the subject knows that the fungus lives within plant tissues, but we're primarily concerned with what results when it fruits. Do you see where I'm going with this?

Where I landed was that all we really want or even need to do is control fruiting. That is easily done by using physical barriers, such as JMS Stylets oil, and substances that drastically shift pH, like the Greencure you're using. Beyond that, we get plant health up and allow the plant to do its own biological warfare, and a boost of immune protection by adding some aspirin to soil drenches or foliars helps well there, too.

That's where I've landed for my own production. I've never seen PM so bad that I've lost a crop, but I have had pests (root aphids) so bad that I've lost a crop and mothers. Those also spurred the one problematic occurrence of PM I ever had to deal with, every other time it's been very easy to get rid of organically.

 

[xavier7995]

That is actually a really good point, I was focusing on the details rather than the end game. Going to have to do some more reading regarding ingesting a bit o PM. If I hadn't seen the little piles of powder I would have had no idea and my guess is I would have had zero issues with the end product. Going to stick with the greencure for the time being as it worked just fine, not like my plants looked like they had been in a bakery all day or anything.

 

[Seamaiden]

I've also used isopropyl alcohol to help in treating those fruiting bodies. I prefer it over Greencure because for some reason I can taste the GC and it tastes like soap to me. The alcohol leaves no residue and so I can't taste it.

 

[true grit]

Curious what this is about. Personally I am not sold on the 100% organic approach and don't have a problem with chemicals/pesticides/etc. Not sure where I saw it, but some quote to the effect that MJ growers were like fundamentalists religious folks in refusing to believe modern science is better then 2000 year old methods. I don't knock people going fully organic, but I think the hardcore refusal to look at what the Ag industry has done and is using is self defeating.

I still haven't seen solid hard science that it is OK to use this product, however, I haven't really seen anything to the contrary either. Just groups of folks arguing back and forth, but not really getting anywhere.

edit: I would like to point out I have never used E20 or any of these toxic things. My PM showed up a couple of weeks into flower so it was all greencure all the way. I just dont think doing something like treating clones before bringing them into your garden is a terrible idea.

Well reality is for indoor growers you shouldn't need any PM control if your grow room environment is properly in check. If it is then plants can fight it off themselves. If you are relying on sprays/pesticides then usually your environment and in/out clean procedures aren't up to par.

I bust out the E20 a little while back to hit some clones that came with PM, thats about the only time I would recommend using it. And after putting a half dose in a spray bottle and realizing the spray bottle is ruined after coming in contact with it...makes ya think what that stuff does to your body/plants.

If you don't think the continual use of "safe" sprays is doing anything to commercial crops and their resistances, etc then you must not be paying attention to a lot of the ag issues currently.

 

[xavier7995]

Well reality is for indoor growers you shouldn't need any PM control if your grow room environment is properly in check. If it is then plants can fight it off themselves. If you are relying on sprays/pesticides then usually your environment and in/out clean procedures aren't up to par.

I bust out the E20 a little while back to hit some clones that came with PM, thats about the only time I would recommend using it. And after putting a half dose in a spray bottle and realizing the spray bottle is ruined after coming in contact with it...makes ya think what that stuff does to your body/plants.

If you don't think the continual use of "safe" sprays is doing anything to commercial crops and their resistances, etc then you must not be paying attention to a lot of the ag issues currently.

Clones are actually the reason I was checking the stuff out. Picked up a couple to fill out my grow area, kept them quarantined for a good while, saw no signs of any issues so put them into flower. Week and a half into flower, started seeing PM on them that then got on the leaves and such of my other plants grown from seed. Never had a PM issue before.

I 1000% agree the notion of people rolling around naked in the stuff and doing beerbongs of it is a terrible idea:) Like yourself, I was thinking that a reasonable treatment of a new clone would eliminate issues down the line and that enough time would pass that the harmful elements would dissipate out. Using it anytime during flower is a definite no go, that was apparent from the start and dispensaries doing that is and was very shady. Anywho, I made up my mind to just stick with Greencure and the like. Going to give everything a good scrub and go back to my no clones philosophy so hopefully it doesn't show back up after this grow. The greencure worked great and I haven't seen any spores show back up, I think if PM ever gets to the point it will actually harm the end product I will just scrap it all and start over.

 

[LocalGrowGuy]

Not sure if this is a labeling issue or another instance of illegal use of spinosad.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_2...rijuana-products-at-two-businesses-pesticides

excerpt:

State law says "it is unlawful for someone to use pesticides in a manner inconsistent with labeling directions or requirements," said Mitch Yergert, director of the Colorado Department of Agriculture's division of plant industry.

However, some labels are so broadly written that the state has decided the pesticide can be used on marijuana because it doesn't violate the label warnings.

Denver health inspectors will continue to make spot checks of marijuana businesses and respond to referrals, officials said.

 

[chickenman]

spray and smoke lol...

 

[Growin Grass]

where'd @LittleDabbie go any way?

 

[SeaF0ur]

Nothing that is only for ornamentals should ever be used on consumable crops. There is plenty of irresponsible commercial growing. Therefore, I grow my own. To hell with the toxic products laden with chems on the store shelves....