>>>>>>Colorado Medical Marijuana Laws are changing<<<<<<

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RMCG

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“I’m ready to quit acting like this legislation is something we need to honor and respect,”
:confused0054:


"the failed promise of regulating the medical marijuana industry, and its detrimental effects on the city. And, as the discussion wore on, the question of whether to leave the question to voters got close scrutiny."

I am curious about this 'detriment' to the city? The 14 landlords that are receiving rent? I'm sure sure there are just strung out junkies and crackheads laying about on the sidewalk outside of these establishments, similar to those that mill around my local liquor stores...

And the pompous attitude to quick 'slam it home', without a vote, because what do those stupid voters know?

People in a position of power get on their little trip and roll with it as far as they can.

Hey lady! You work FOR the people, not the other way around!
:anim_09:
 
Cat Jockey

Cat Jockey

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People in a position of power get on their little trip and roll with it as far as they can.

Read the new State app they put on their website to work at or own a dispensary? Look the fuck out. I bet a quarter of those who have scrambled around secure I-1 locations will be denied or just give up and not apply. 30 fuckin' pages. It's like you are applying for Top Secret Clearance. Full exposure to you personal finances, etc. I have never seen such an intrusive application, for anything. Sweet disclosures on the end where you sign away privacy and authorize the MED (unelected civilian bureaucrats) to use the methods they deem neccessary to investigate your personal background.

MED is the new Stassi. So fuckin' chic.
 
sky high

sky high

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I agree wholeheartedly about yer power trip statement, RMCG. It will be interesting to see what kinda crap my county tries to pull on all of this.

Yup CJ...and after these folks apply to the State most of them will have to jump through as large or LARGER hoops @ the COUNTY and CITY level WITH NO GUARANTEE OF OPERATION. As I've tried to say here many times the counties/towns in Colorado can set up even TOUGHER regulations to monitor such businesses than the State IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO.

Thankfully the State DID set our individual/caregiver rights in stone or we would be seeing "business' type regulations layered upon patients in the same light. (via a power trip)

wot a mess....

s h
 
R

RMCG

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Read the new State app they put on their website to work at or own a dispensary? Look the fuck out. I bet a quarter of those who have scrambled around secure I-1 locations will be denied or just give up and not apply. 30 fuckin' pages. It's like you are applying for Top Secret Clearance. Full exposure to you personal finances, etc. I have never seen such an intrusive application, for anything. Sweet disclosures on the end where you sign away privacy and authorize the MED (unelected civilian bureaucrats) to use the methods they deem neccessary to investigate your personal background.

MED is the new Stassi. So fuckin' chic.

Welcome back CJ!

I can understand the ~reasoning~ behind it peeking into finances.

Easy enough to hide Cali, MexMafia, etc money behind a CO entity/person.

BUT, do they do the same if I wanted to open a strip joint, dry cleaners/laundromat, cash-only bar?

Seems they are just as easy to clean money/divert from others sources, etc.


Good thing I borrowed money from bikers instead...
:hi
 
P

pikes peak 69

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Yea all them apps are way up your A$$ getting info.
451 MMJ businesses in The Springs, I know of about 10 that are already for sale. We'll see how long before it's whittled down to a realistic number, say 100 total in the city.

pp69
 
sky high

sky high

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yo pp69! I hope all is well with you/yours.

I was LOL yesterday because there's an ad on Craigslist for a dispensary for sale in Telluride.....

you'd have to be extremely HIGH to even think about taking on such a liability @ this point in time, IMO. It's definitely not July 2009 anymore...

And if folks continue to take advantage/find the loopholes we'll see even MORE regulation in the future....

all the best

s h
 
true grit

true grit

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Haven't been around much, but in denver for those that don't know- you can only supply dispensaries with meds til Sept if you don't have an MMC. They did their little emergency plan for city/county licensing and it made it very very evident that the people who paid for this bill are ready, so time to lock it down. They gave everyone 6 days to secure all property, requirements for city licensing, etc....so basically if you weren't already in a zoned warehouse you cant apply until July 2011. So again basically the people with money that were involved have their warehouses already, are already buying other dispensaries and decided they were ready to pull the string....

Accordingly a lot of riff raff will vanish, but the legit caregivers etc- are black market bound. If you see a congressman/woman- punch them in the nuts for me just out of principle.

BS on looking at finances- this business is not special. This is not some magic business to launder/clean your money....smart people with money to invest that don't want finances looked at do not invest in other DRUG businesses. Sorry but thats stupid, and ignorant excuse on the part of CO to deter more people from applying and allow some more privacy invasion....scare tactics. Lets see them prove "gifts" and "donations"....call yourself a nonprofit, give yourself a crazy salary, and say the funding came from anonymous donations for start up and initiate your 501(c)3 status.

They have bullshit laws, and lawyers have loopholes. Its like PP69 said- it just takes some folks with the cash to prove the points. If they think they can dwelve any deeper into finances, keep out of state people from opening business, etc- they got another thing coming....there are plenty of commerce/business law that they are treading on thats challegeable-

Problem I'm seeing- the people with money were much farther along than expected. Meaning not as much money was sitting back, they were sitting back doing what needed to be done that none of us knew about and now they are set....so sadly there's not as much money waiting to litigate for business. And with moratoriums/stop sales in denver and the deadline passed- these folks in wait are just heading to MI and NJ with no regs yet.

So they limit the small towns like the small towns want and funnel business to big cities that have money/fingers deep in politics like they want. Those people were ahead of the game and locked it down til July.

So fuck it- be a caregiver. Get a good doctor and use HB1284 new rights to concrete a med necessity and get down....
 
sky high

sky high

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It's gonna be interesting to see what happens to the price of an OZ with everyone BIU and nowhere to sell it to come Sept...

wot a mess.

s h
 
sky high

sky high

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It looks like a few folks are already "studying" what may happen to the $$$$ side of this equation if pot is legalized....



OFFICE OF MEDIA RELATIONS
703-413-1100 x5117 and 310-451-6913
[email protected]

Wednesday July 7, 2010

Legalizing Marijuana in California Would Sharply Lower the Price of the Drug


Legalizing the production and distribution of marijuana in California could cut the price of the drug by as much as 80 percent and increase consumption, according to a new study by the nonprofit RAND Corporation that examines many issues raised by proposals to legalize marijuana in the state.

While the state Board of Equalization has estimated taxing legal marijuana could raise more than $1 billion in revenue, the RAND study cautions that any potential revenue could be dramatically higher or lower based on a number of factors, including the level of taxation, the amount of tax evasion and the response by the federal government.

Past research provides solid evidence that marijuana consumption goes up when prices go down, but the magnitude of the consumption increase cannot be predicted because prices will fall to levels below those ever studied, researchers say. Consumption also might rise because of non-price effects such as advertising or a reduction in stigma, researchers say.

In addition to uncertainty about the taxes levied and evaded, researchers do not know how users will respond to such a large drop in price. Even under a scenario with high taxes ($50 per ounce) and a moderate rate of tax evasion (25 percent), researchers cannot rule out consumption increases of 50 percent to 100 percent, and possibly even larger. If prevalence increased by 100 percent, marijuana use in California would be close to the prevalence levels recorded in the late 1970s.

The analysis, prepared by the RAND Drug Policy Research Center, was conducted in an effort to objectively outline the key issues that voters and legislators should consider as California weighs marijuana legalization.

"There is considerable uncertainty about the impact that legalizing marijuana in California will have on consumption and public budgets," said Beau Kilmer, the study's lead author and a policy researcher at RAND. "No government has legalized the production and distribution of marijuana for general use, so there is little evidence on which to base any predictions about how this might work in California,"

The analysis also suggests that the annual cost of enforcing current marijuana laws is smaller than suggested by others. The RAND study estimates that the cost of enforcing the current laws probably totals less than $300 million.

"It is critical that legislators and the public understand what is known and unknown as the state weighs this unprecedented step," said Rosalie Liccardo Pacula, a study co-author and co-director with Kilmer of the RAND Drug Policy Research Center.

Two proposals are pending that would legalize the production and sale of marijuana in California. Assembly Bill 2254 authored by Assemblyman Tom Ammiano (D-San Francisco) would legalize marijuana for those aged 21 and older and task the state Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control with regulating its possession, sale and cultivation. The bill would create a $50 per ounce excise tax and these funds would be used to fund drug education, awareness, and rehabilitation programs under the jurisdiction of the State Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs.

In November, California voters will consider a ballot measure titled the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010 that would make it legal for those aged 21 and older to cultivate marijuana on a 5-foot-by-5-foot plot, and possess, process, share or transport up to one ounce of marijuana. In addition, the initiative would authorize cities or counties to allow, regulate and tax the commercial cultivation and sales of marijuana. Such activities would remain illegal in jurisdictions that do not opt in.

In only two countries have there been changes in the criminal status of supplying marijuana. The Netherlands allows for sale of small amounts of marijuana (5 grams) in licensed coffee shops and in Australia four jurisdictions have reduced the penalties for cultivation of a small number of marijuana plants to confiscation and a fine. Neither has legalized larger-scale commercial cultivation of the sort California is considering.

In 1975, California was one of the first states to reduce the maximum penalty for possessing less than an ounce of marijuana from incarceration to a misdemeanor with a $100 fine. In 1996, California became the first state to allow marijuana to be grown and consumed for medical purposes.

RAND researchers say one effect of legalizing marijuana would be to dramatically drop the price as growers move from clandestine operations to legal production. Based on an analysis of known production costs and surveys of the current price of marijuana, researchers suggest the untaxed retail price of high-quality marijuana could drop to as low as $38 per ounce compared to about $375 per ounce today.
RAND researchers caution there are many factors that make it difficult to accurately estimate revenue that might be generated by any tax on legal marijuana. The higher the tax, the greater the incentives would be for a gray market in marijuana to develop, researchers say.

"A fixed excise tax per ounce may give producers and users an incentive to shift to smaller quantities of higher-potency forms of marijuana," said study co-author Jonathan P. Caulkins, the H. Guyford Stever Professor of Operations Research at Carnegie Mellon University's Heinz College and Qatar campus. Such a shift is another factor that could lower revenues collected from marijuana taxes.

In addition, since the November ballot initiative leaves it to local governments to set tax rates, the size of any levy could vary broadly. A jurisdiction with a low tax rate might attract marijuana buyers from elsewhere in the state or even other states, further complicating efforts to predict government revenues from the sale of legal marijuana, according to researchers.

The RAND report also investigates some of the costs to the state and society in general, such as drug treatment and other health expenses, that may change if marijuana is legalized in California.

It's unclear whether legalizing marijuana may increase or decrease drug treatment costs, according to the study. More than half of the 32,000 admissions for treatment of marijuana abuse in California during in 2009 resulted from criminal justice referrals, which could drop if legalization is approved. However, an increase in marijuana use could cause a spike in those who voluntarily seek treatment for marijuana abuse, researchers say.

The report, "Altered State? Assessing How Marijuana Legalization in California Could Influence Marijuana Consumption and Public Budgets," can be found at http://www.rand.org. Funding for this study was provided by RAND's Investment in People and Ideas program, which combines philanthropic contributions from individuals, foundations, and private-sector firms with earnings from RAND's endowment and operations to support research on issues that reach beyond the scope of traditional client sponsorship.

Other authors of the study are Robert J. MacCoun of the University of California, Berkeley, and Peter H. Reuter of the University of Maryland.

The RAND Drug Policy Research Center is a joint project of RAND Health and the RAND Safety and Justice program within RAND Infrastructure, Safety, and Environment. The goal of the RAND Drug Policy Research Center is to provide a firm, empirical foundation upon which sound drug policies can be built.
 
R

RMCG

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again, legalization is not as 'great' as everyone thinks.

If you grow your own, where does this 50/z tax come from? Oh, wait you cant GYO...

38/z + 50 tax? No thanks.
But at some point the cost / price point will get to a level where its cost prohibitive to NOT purchase premade product. Indoors? Not a chance. I'm not growing lettuce under HIDs.

This product is far to labor intensive, right there with tobacco and cotton, to drop to those levels. We aren't talking 'hemp' here, where the product can be beat to hell in the manufacturing process, unless the product changes to something completely different than what we all know and love.

GW/Hortipharm here we come.
:mad0233:
 
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pikes peak 69

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There will always be someone trying to find loopholes. You don't keep making laws and regs to combat that, you set stiffer penalties for those that abuse the laws.
They are trying to make it so difficult or costly that you just go back to parms.
F$%K that.
GROW YOUR OWN and give excess away to a deserving patient.
Politicians don't ever want to see it legal. Hell they can make more money by keeping it illegal and they will fight for that till they die. Illegal = more regs, fees, enforcement, judges, hell they may even have to raise taxes to pay for the jails to house all the illegal users of a medicine.
Springs Mayor is claiming that MMJ will generate approx. 1 million dollars in taxes this year for The Springs, and we still have A$$holes trying to get them shutdown. Between all the city, county, state fees and licenses, as well as the invasive application to even work at a facility, no one will work and everyone is selling. And because SH^T runs downhill, the patient is the one stuck wallowing in the muck as well as trying to live a dignified life.
I get so pi$$ed at these politicians trying to tell me what's good for me.

End of rant,
sorry,
pp69
 
true grit

true grit

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Keep rantin brother cuz its true.

Folks need to see the difference between finding "loopholes" and fixing poor legislation. Finding weaknesses and loopholes for lawyers to tear up is how we don't end up with a SHIT LAW for the next decade. Agreed that the blatant abusers should face penalty, but not criminal. They will see quickly with the black market blowing up that will need to penalize/ticket/fine cuz incarceration no way....

I've been hearing about prices in Cali for a hot minute now, I've been hearing folks crying about Cali prices dropping, etc- and guess what- if you still got the dank you aint gotta problem. Let the industry and joeblow BIU, that leaves real heads growing real dank and still pulling top dollar. Don't believe me? Ask the homies pulling same price for 1/2 lb for PureKush as the average homie is gettin for a LB of their goods. Thank we have a lotta Cali meds now? LOL... now you will just see our dank leave CO and go to the next state for even more $$$.

Homies settin up contracts- if they are good- are working contracts will all elbows for $3k or so... and getting a facility provided or getting nutes and lights paid for.

It just depends how deep folks wanna get, if you wanna grow in excess and make money get ready to road trip. If you wanna blow it up and make money here, get your "master grower" on and contract up.
 
Cat Jockey

Cat Jockey

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Welcome back CJ!

I need to take a haitus now and again. I have shitty social skills and can be pretty abrasive. I fit right in at Overgrow and Planet Ganja, especially the political forums filled with shit slinging, but the owner of this site prefers to keep the class up here, which is fine, and I really don't want to get banned, so ...

Good knowledge on this site. Forgetting about flowering plants, I have 3 dozen mother plants alone in buckets.

I can understand the ~reasoning~ behind it peeking into finances.

Easy enough to hide Cali, MexMafia, etc money behind a CO entity/person.

BUT, do they do the same if I wanted to open a strip joint, dry cleaners/laundromat, cash-only bar?

I understand, and expect some, but this shit is over the top. Last two years tax statements, last six months bank statements, credit card bills, traffic tickets, etc. Referneces, plus the employer and employer's address of your reference, last ten years job history and on and on and on. Unfuckingreal man.

You bring up an excellent point about other businesses. Yes, a 'drug'. A hot 25 yo chick can walk into a bar and be hired on the spot and be slinging booze as a bartender immediately. Yea, a bit of a consistency problem.

That is phase two of the weeding out. Found your space, got your paperwork in? Great. Now here is this 25 page application where you sign over your rights to privacy to the MED.

Still wanna do it? That's right, close your doors and go flip hamburgers you stoner loser.
 
Cat Jockey

Cat Jockey

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Yup CJ...and after these folks apply to the State most of them will have to jump through as large or LARGER hoops @ the COUNTY and CITY level WITH NO GUARANTEE OF OPERATION. As I've tried to say here many times the counties/towns in Colorado can set up even TOUGHER regulations to monitor such businesses than the State IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO.

True, but I think if you are in Denver or Boulder, your only concern is how much they will charge you yearly. Loveland, CoSpgs, Yuma county, etc., no fucking gaurantess at all. You could be closed down anytime, dependant upon a City Council or county folks.

It's gonna be interesting to see what happens to the price of an OZ with everyone BIU and nowhere to sell it to come Sept...

Yea, lot's 'o growers dumping, but if you are a grower that is in the system, I bet you are selling nothing for less than 4 g's a pound. A disp has to produce 70% of their own and can buy 30% - but only from another disp. Most dispensaries can't even grow 70% of their own, let only 100% plus left over to sell to other disp. Where is it gonna come from. Definite supply shortage coming up in disp.

People are talking about those that are locked in, infuenced the bill, etc. those locked in people will supply most of the other dispensarie's 30%. This legislation just insured there to be a relative monopoly by a few growers who will become very rich in the system by locking the 'little people' out.

Definitely street prices coming down and dispensaries losing some customers, but I bet dispensaries will not be able to legally but weed for less than 4 per elbow.
 
S

SweetIslandFunk

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So, For me to trade a few plants for a carbon filter setup would now be considered illegal?
 
S

SoCalDam

Guest
hopefully for the better

I hope everything changes for the best out there:RastaBong:
 
Cat Jockey

Cat Jockey

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There will always be someone trying to find loopholes. You don't keep making laws and regs to combat that, you set stiffer penalties for those that abuse the laws.

Loopholes aren't illegal, that is the point of them. So what are you to penalize? The key to not having loopholes is for legislatures to be a wee bit more thoughtful in the language they use.

Long live the loophole. I am looking for every one. What else am I to do? What other methods do I have to combat legislation that is ridiculous? Should I give up? Not me, I will continue to wage the battle, to find the flaws of unjust legislation to subvert their intentions, legally.

Politicians don't ever want to see it legal. Hell they can make more money by keeping it illegal and they will fight for that till they die. Illegal = more regs, fees, enforcement, judges, hell they may even have to raise taxes to pay for the jails to house all the illegal users of a medicine.

I don't agree. I think the answer as to why Sweet Lady Jane is still prohibited is much more mundane. I don't want to get political, but neither political party is a friend of mj. Not only that but neither party has a monopoly on those in favor of legalization, the father of modern conservativism, William F. Buckley, was vocally pro drug legalization - all of them. So to Milton Friedman and many other intellectuals of the right.

The point of that is not a political debate, but the observation that both parties have respected members that are pro legalization and anti legalization. There is no underlying agreement among members of either party on the issue amongst themselves. On top of that, most Americans could give two shits, regardless of which side of the issue, meaning it doesn't matter if the average Joe is pro or anti, it really is not a big thing to them.

It isn't important. So, to make a stand either pro or anti legalization risks political capital. Votes. Stoners are not a voting block, and politicians don't fear losing our vote. Most stoners don't vote.

It is not a conspiracy, it is merely an issue that a politician of any party risks losing votes for taking a vocal stand.

End of rant,
sorry,
pp69

Rant on bro, this shit is ridiculous. If I remember you might be a disp. How 'bout that 25 or so page rectal exam of an application, eh?
 
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pikes peak 69

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Hello CJ,
I am not a disp. I'm a patient first and then a cg. Always will be in that order.
Yes the app is totally ridiculous and I wouldn't be surprised if it's challenged.

pp69
 
sky high

sky high

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People using bogus documents to buy medical marijuana

DENVER - 9Wants to Know has uncovered evidence that hundreds of people are buying medical marijuana with forged or fraudulent paperwork and the state of Colorado can do little to stop the fraud.

A two-month investigation reveals people posing as medical professionals, forging and selling doctors' signatures, and some doctors with restricted medical licenses, are signing medical marijuana applications.

Experts say the forgery and fraud is happening because the state has a huge backlog of applications and cannot examine the documents quickly or carefully enough.

"You can see how that opens up a Pandora's box because patients can just kind of fake paperwork and say they've been to a doctor or whatever and use that to get into the dispensaries," Doctor Phil Nguyen of Happy Clinic Denver said. "They're not legal. It's just some willy-nilly person out there writing all these fake documents."

Nguyen is one of five doctors 9Wants to Know interviewed who has had their signatures copied or forged. Nguyen has seen at least 15 medical marijuana applications from patients he has never examined, yet each has his signature on them.

Medical marijuana applications that include a physician's certification can legally be used to buy marijuana while patients wait for the state to process their paperwork and mail them an actual license.

Nguyen filed a police report against one of his patients after he was notified the man used white-out to cover his name and date of birth and began selling documents to. The Arapahoe County Sheriff's Office has issued an arrest warrant for forgery for Nguyen's former patient, Gregory Johnson.

A patient who did not want her full name used because she works in a courthouse says she bought one of the forged documents from Johnson that bears Nguyen's signature.

"Before we filled out the paperwork, I'm asking him, 'What all do we have to do? You know, are you sure this is legal?' He said, 'Oh yeah, this is legal. I work for the doctor, the doctor's on board with this,'" said Jessica who bought the documents in March.

Jessica says she used the bogus paperwork to buy medical marijuana at six dispensaries across Denver until one of them in May noticed something was wrong and called the doctor.

Johnson could not be reached for comment. But his mother says she watched him sell the documents out of her home.

"He said, 'I license people for medical marijuana for a doctor,'" his mother Wilsie Johnson said.

Another patient, David Norris, said he bought medical marijuana documents from a woman out of an apartment complex. Norris told 9Wants to Know the woman claimed to be a doctor and was African-American.

The doctor's name on the documents was Rita Starritt. She is a legitimate doctor but she is not black, she is white and says she has never seen Norris before.

Starritt has discovered a half dozen other patients were using her signature with out her permission on their medical marijuana cards.

9Wants to Know also talked to the owner of the Blue Sky Care clinic. They used a doctor to examine a hundred patients only to learn later his medical license has been restricted by the Board of Medical Examiners. He no longer has permission to write prescriptions.

All the patients we talked to who purchased fraudulent documents say they used the paper work to buy medical marijuana with no questions asked. The Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment told 9Wants to Know the fraud is happening because of a backlog of applications.

Hyman says the state receives 5,000 new applications every week. It will be six months or more before applications sent in this week will be processed.

In the mean time, patients are instructed to use copies of their application to buy medical marijuana.

"Of course we would like to have the backlog resolved and we are working very hard to achieve that," Hyman said.

The state is hiring 25 new employees and developing a new computer system to speed up the process. He admits it could be a year before they catch up with the applications already received by their office.

"When we are caught up, I feel like it will be more difficult for the bad players to get away with it," Hyman said.
 
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