Council Of First Knowledge, Jedi Temple Training Facility

[EventHorizan]

i know when you remove leafs from below the top say 12" colas it puts effort into growing buds down low. so them auxins are being distributed down low i guess.

chris.

Im not for sure i follow you?
or at least I didnt know that...

 

[jipp]

Im not for sure i follow you?
or at least I didnt know that...

well for me i removed all the leafs leaving bud sights alone. and left the top 12" of leafs alone the plant then put its energy into growing buds further down the stem giving me larger colas. but im not using a net, just bamboo stakes.

hell i dunno man im tired. sorry to add confusion to this topic.

chris.

 

[Wisher619]

that is why
he and other industrial growers "Sea of Green"
which dosnt necessarily mean a shit tons of plants
you can run fewer plants as long as you run it high enough to get enough lower and then manipulate to get those lowers level with apical
then you have a true canopy

what do you mean by run it high enough.....?

So you would top, then top again, then top again, then snip fans on the highest tops, so the lowers catch up, and keep repeating sniping fans until all tops are even?
The reason i keep saying scrog is because,
1. I need as many tops as possible,
2. it allows me to get many tops and still keep the plants short, since i have only 71 inches to work with...
But im all ears on what to do!
I didnt drop 2 stacks too come up short!

ok sorry I am a little confusing

so this is what your typical high volume grower would do
run a plant straight up to between 6-8 nodes
then pull the newest leaves off the very top cola
now that main cola stops growing for a short period of time
in that time the lower branches grow up
the higher lower branches will reach the top first
so you then pluck all the top branches newest and next to newest leaves
that will stop them again
and the rest will catch up
once you have all those tops level
you flip to flower
on day 14 you strip every fan leaf from top to bottom
that stunts the plant from stretching beyond that 2 weeks
it also allows light all the way through the canopy
that same day you clean up everything on the very bottom
any scragly crap lookin stuff
you now leave it alone until chop
those guys typicaly run 8 plants per 1k
and pull 2+ per light all day
with some strains reaching 3-4#

and that is the thing
higher production dont scrog
because you are forcing a bunch of stringy little branches to flower
but running them straight up produces much larger buds on much stronger stems

 

[Wisher619]

oh
something new I learned today
talking to a commercial grower
he was telling me that a plant accumulates 80% of the nitrogen need for the entire cycle in the first half of its life
so they cut out N completely about week 4 of flower

 

[EventHorizan]

ok sorry I am a little confusing

so this is what your typical high volume grower would do
run a plant straight up to between 6-8 nodes
then pull the newest leaves off the very top cola
now that main cola stops growing for a short period of time
in that time the lower branches grow up
the higher lower branches will reach the top first
so you then pluck all the top branches newest and next to newest leaves
that will stop them again
and the rest will catch up
once you have all those tops level
you flip to flower
on day 14 you strip every fan leaf from top to bottom
that stunts the plant from stretching beyond that 2 weeks
it also allows light all the way through the canopy
that same day you clean up everything on the very bottom
any scragly crap lookin stuff
you now leave it alone until chop
those guys typicaly run 8 plants per 1k
and pull 2+ per light all day
with some strains reaching 3-4#

and that is the thing
higher production dont scrog
because you are forcing a bunch of stringy little branches to flower
but running them straight up produces much larger buds on much stronger stems

I understand now... That makes more sense to me...
I take more videos on this if and when you come across them.. This is the shit that really interests me! I get bored by the other stuff alot...
Im also reading reviews on that light...
So far its been said that the de would have to be no bigger than 600, because of the distance a de 1000 needs and the distance a cmh 315 needs.. You would either burn the plants with the 1 k de, or you would be to high to get effective use out the 315's...
But with a 600 de, it would be more compatible..
I also seen advised that this works well on a light mover in a 4x8 tent, one of the only applications where a light mover might be considered.. Most growers dont care for light movers, but in this situation, it seems to work well..
Those are the reviews ive read so far...
That and most think the lamps are too close together with each other in the fixture, but the light mover might be the reason that is untrue...

 

[EventHorizan]

ok sorry I am a little confusing

so this is what your typical high volume grower would do
run a plant straight up to between 6-8 nodes
then pull the newest leaves off the very top cola
now that main cola stops growing for a short period of time
in that time the lower branches grow up
the higher lower branches will reach the top first
so you then pluck all the top branches newest and next to newest leaves
that will stop them again
and the rest will catch up
once you have all those tops level
you flip to flower
on day 14 you strip every fan leaf from top to bottom
that stunts the plant from stretching beyond that 2 weeks
it also allows light all the way through the canopy
that same day you clean up everything on the very bottom
any scragly crap lookin stuff
you now leave it alone until chop
those guys typicaly run 8 plants per 1k
and pull 2+ per light all day
with some strains reaching 3-4#

and that is the thing
higher production dont scrog
because you are forcing a bunch of stringy little branches to flower
but running them straight up produces much larger buds on much stronger stems

Jesus Saves canopy control

ok sorry I am a little confusing

so this is what your typical high volume grower would do
run a plant straight up to between 6-8 nodes
then pull the newest leaves off the very top cola
now that main cola stops growing for a short period of time
in that time the lower branches grow up
the higher lower branches will reach the top first
so you then pluck all the top branches newest and next to newest leaves
that will stop them again
and the rest will catch up
once you have all those tops level
you flip to flower
on day 14 you strip every fan leaf from top to bottom
that stunts the plant from stretching beyond that 2 weeks
it also allows light all the way through the canopy
that same day you clean up everything on the very bottom
any scragly crap lookin stuff
you now leave it alone until chop
those guys typicaly run 8 plants per 1k
and pull 2+ per light all day
with some strains reaching 3-4#

and that is the thing
higher production dont scrog
because you are forcing a bunch of stringy little branches to flower
but running them straight up produces much larger buds on much stronger stems

 

[EventHorizan]

oh
something new I learned today
talking to a commercial grower
he was telling me that a plant accumulates 80% of the nitrogen need for the entire cycle in the first half of its life
so they cut out N completely about week 4 of flower

s

I understand now... That makes more sense to me...
I take more videos on this if and when you come across them.. This is the shit that really interests me! I get bored by the other stuff alot...
Im also reading reviews on that light...
So far its been said that the de would have to be no bigger than 600, because of the distance a de 1000 needs and the distance a cmh 315 needs.. You would either burn the plants with the 1 k de, or you would be to high to get effective use out the 315's...
But with a 600 de, it would be more compatible..
I also seen advised that this works well on a light mover in a 4x8 tent, one of the only applications where a light mover might be considered.. Most growers dont care for light movers, but in this situation, it seems to work well..
Those are the reviews ive read so far...
That and most think the lamps are too close together with each other in the fixture, but the light mover might be the reason that is untrue...

no comment on that light?

 

[Wisher619]

s

no comment on that light?

oh
yeah
my personal opinion
looks more like a novelty and not as practical
it is all packaged to tight
IMO wasting electricity

 

[Wisher619]

this will answer most of the questions you may have on what I was talking about
this video just came out tonight

 

[EventHorizan]

oh
yeah
my personal opinion
looks more like a novelty and not as practical
it is all packaged to tight
IMO wasting electricity

Im leaning that way too... i know you really dont have faith in light movers...
do you think the cmh bulbs are better vertically than horizontally?
I see where a few ppl compared the ss315 cmh to the growers choice 315 cmh.. They said hands down the ss 315 blew the growers choice out the water.. Worth noting the gc 315 had thier bulb, and the sunligh 315 had a phillips bulb in it.. the gs 315 is horazontally hung while the ss 315 is vertically hung.. Everything else the same...
Never the less, 2 of them ss315's would go good with my hps in my 4x8 :)
with c02 i could handle that extra umols....

 

[Wisher619]

Im leaning that way too... i know you really dont have faith in light movers...
do you think the cmh bulbs are better vertically than horizontally?
I see where a few ppl compared the ss315 cmh to the growers choice 315 cmh.. They said hands down the ss 315 blew the growers choice out the water.. Worth noting the gc 315 had thier bulb, and the sunligh 315 had a phillips bulb in it.. the gs 315 is horazontally hung while the ss 315 is vertically hung.. Everything else the same...
Never the less, 2 of them ss315's would go good with my hps in my 4x8 :)
with c02 i could handle that extra umols....

it was the lamp not the fixture
the phillips blows all cmh lamps out of the water

but honestly

for the money

and high production
I say
run 2 1k's
or less watts and more production
3 60o's with your open batwings

only 200 more watts than a 1k + 2 315's
but much more efficient

 

[EventHorizan]

it was the lamp not the fixture
the phillips blows all cmh lamps out of the water

but honestly

for the money

and high production
I say
run 2 1k's
or less watts and more production
3 60o's with your open batwings

only 200 more watts than a 1k + 2 315's
but much more efficient

I always come back to the issue of bulb life...
One thing is for sure I will agree with you on..
it is better to have multiple lights of a lesser wattage,
than 1 or 2 of high wattage...

We talked one time about gpw,
and gram per Sq foot...
We kinda just barely touched the surface...
So in this, im gonna guess we are more concerned on how much is achievable from a giving amount of space if all varibles are accounted for and tuned in... which in this case is 4x8x6

So the question,
What would yield more?
We are gonna do a little comparing.
We are gonna make all the variables the same
EXCEPT the light...
And for my reference we will use my setups configuration...
So 4x8x6 tent
c02 1200-1500
Ac controlled
rh controlled

We will assume your the grower, and you are using what ever growing technique you would use in this situation,
which im gonna assume is the canopy control top deleaf that you have had me watch 3 hrs of :)
lol Was very interesting, but now you got me hooked, and i got to keep watching :(

So here is our selections....

1. (2) hps 1000 (super horti bulbs)

2. (3) hps 600 (super horti bulbs)

3. (4) cmh 315 (Phillips bulbs)

5 . (2) cmh 630 and a 600 de (with the optional wide throw reflector)

6. (6) cmh 315's staggered = = = (Phillips bulbs)

Maybe there is even some more configurations im not thinking of..
I think it would be wise of me to note, and get your comment, as to
some of there are a overkill of light IF NOT for running c02, eh right?
I dont want to send nobody shopping for a light to big without understanding that..

I also know that there is a huge difference in upfront costs for these, which would play a factor in the decision a person would make. Some would also run cooler saving money on AC, but by how much is the question. AC is expensive.
So the question isnt which is the best choice upfront money wise, but yield, and yield only...
This is more along the lines of which would yield better because of light distribution, spectrum, and heat dissipation....
So if you were having a yield contest with your buddies but you got free pick of what lights to use, which do you think would be the top performer?


On a side note, between me and you, if i did go (3) 600
I mean keep this in mind,,, for my 3 600 watters replacement of bulbs( I use super horti, and I like them) is gonna be $200... and thats every 6 months....
This however doesnt play into the equation of my prior question of which would yield more...
Just ponder on that for awhile today...

I got to mow the yard. ugh, I hate physical labor anymore...
I also hadnt said nothing, but a few of you know i got some hella back problems, and im gonna go under the knife sometime in the next 90 days... so im gonna be off work for 3 months are so... Getting down in the grow room and doing much of shit for the first 2 weeks is prob nil... Im thinking i will have the pheno run done, and i will have a couple mothers and fathers and i will just bring my 3x3x5 tent up and put the 400 watt mh in it in my bedroom. As for as im concerned, if my bedroom is livable for me it will work for them. Just old school it with just a fan/filter/ speed controller.........

 

[Wisher619]

I always come back to the issue of bulb life...
One thing is for sure I will agree with you on..
it is better to have multiple lights of a lesser wattage,
than 1 or 2 of high wattage...

We talked one time about gpw,
and gram per Sq foot...
We kinda just barely touched the surface...
So in this, im gonna guess we are more concerned on how much is achievable from a giving amount of space if all varibles are accounted for and tuned in... which in this case is 4x8x6

So the question,
What would yield more?
We are gonna do a little comparing.
We are gonna make all the variables the same
EXCEPT the light...
And for my reference we will use my setups configuration...
So 4x8x6 tent
c02 1200-1500
Ac controlled
rh controlled

We will assume your the grower, and you are using what ever growing technique you would use in this situation,
which im gonna assume is the canopy control top deleaf that you have had me watch 3 hrs of :)
lol Was very interesting, but now you got me hooked, and i got to keep watching :(

So here is our selections....

1. (2) hps 1000 (super horti bulbs)

2. (3) hps 600 (super horti bulbs)

3. (4) cmh 315 (Phillips bulbs)

5 . (2) cmh 630 and a 600 de (with the optional wide throw reflector)

6. (6) cmh 315's staggered = = = (Phillips bulbs)

Maybe there is even some more configurations im not thinking of..
I think it would be wise of me to note, and get your comment, as to
some of there are a overkill of light IF NOT for running c02, eh right?
I dont want to send nobody shopping for a light to big without understanding that..

I also know that there is a huge difference in upfront costs for these, which would play a factor in the decision a person would make. Some would also run cooler saving money on AC, but by how much is the question. AC is expensive.
So the question isnt which is the best choice upfront money wise, but yield, and yield only...
This is more along the lines of which would yield better because of light distribution, spectrum, and heat dissipation....
So if you were having a yield contest with your buddies but you got free pick of what lights to use, which do you think would be the top performer?


On a side note, between me and you, if i did go (3) 600
I mean keep this in mind,,, for my 3 600 watters replacement of bulbs( I use super horti, and I like them) is gonna be $200... and thats every 6 months....
This however doesnt play into the equation of my prior question of which would yield more...
Just ponder on that for awhile today...

I got to mow the yard. ugh, I hate physical labor anymore...
I also hadnt said nothing, but a few of you know i got some hella back problems, and im gonna go under the knife sometime in the next 90 days... so im gonna be off work for 3 months are so... Getting down in the grow room and doing much of shit for the first 2 weeks is prob nil... Im thinking i will have the pheno run done, and i will have a couple mothers and fathers and i will just bring my 3x3x5 tent up and put the 400 watt mh in it in my bedroom. As for as im concerned, if my bedroom is livable for me it will work for them. Just old school it with just a fan/filter/ speed controller.........

lot of good questions

so for me

yield wise

in your tent situation
it would be a tossup between
2-1k's
3-600's

none of the others would compare and would also be cost prohibitive

I know you said just focus on light but just to costly

see the dude whom I turned you onto

he run his 1k per 5x5 not 4x4
so to me
600 will run a 4x4
and if you have 3 in a row
you are getting the overlap effect

200w less than 2 1k's but more effecient spread
and just better overall light to heat ratio
that is heat put out by lamp compared to light waves distributed

 

[EventHorizan]

lot of good questions

so for me

yield wise

in your tent situation
it would be a tossup between
2-1k's
3-600's

none of the others would compare and would also be cost prohibitive

I know you said just focus on light but just to costly

see the dude whom I turned you onto

he run his 1k per 5x5 not 4x4
so to me
600 will run a 4x4
and if you have 3 in a row
you are getting the overlap effect

200w less than 2 1k's but more effecient spread
and just better overall light to heat ratio
that is heat put out by lamp compared to light waves distributed

I posed the question in 2 other places... So far the (3) 600 have won out...
One picked (4) cmh 315s
but all good info im getting...
Sometimes these questions can seem redundant, but my thinking is,,
ppl are starting to have feedback on the cmh, and long term..

 

[Srenots]

I posed the question in 2 other places... So far the (3) 600 have won out...
One picked (4) cmh 315s
but all good info im getting...
Sometimes these questions can seem redundant, but my thinking is,,
ppl are starting to have feedback on the cmh, and long term..

yep , 3 600's

 

[EventHorizan]

lot of good questions

so for me

yield wise

in your tent situation
it would be a tossup between
2-1k's
3-600's

none of the others would compare and would also be cost prohibitive

I know you said just focus on light but just to costly

see the dude whom I turned you onto

he run his 1k per 5x5 not 4x4
so to me
600 will run a 4x4
and if you have 3 in a row
you are getting the overlap effect

200w less than 2 1k's but more efficient spread
and just better overall light to heat ratio
that is heat put out by lamp compared to light waves distributed

here is a good question....
What is the max a person could grow in a square foot?
I mean at some point, you max out your ability I assume...
You got to have an idea of what is plausibly attainable before you can apply yourself..

 

[Wisher619]

here is a good question....
What is the max a person could grow in a square foot?
I mean at some point, you max out your ability I assume...
You got to have an idea of what is plausibly attainable before you can apply yourself..

presumably 50-100g per sqft max

50g being 2# per 4x4

 

[EventHorizan]

presumably 50-100g per sqft max

50g being 2# per 4x4

So i got 32 sq feet..
50 grams is 1600
100grams is 3200
amazing numbers....
It just adds to the theory that you dont need more room, you just need to maximize the area you have...

 

[Wisher619]

So i got 32 sq feet..
50 grams is 1600
100grams is 3200
amazing numbers....
It just adds to the theory that you dont need more room, you just need to maximize the area you have...

you should be able to pull at least 4# so 2# per 4 buckets
so look at it this way

you need to pull 230g per bucket

there much easier to focus on that

so per bucket you need 80z

I believe that is obtainable

so each plant needs 8 28.8g colas
which means you need to manage you canopy into 8 main colas or 16 smaller 1/2oz colas

in any case you now have the numbers to shoot for

 

[EventHorizan]

you should be able to pull at least 4# so 2# per 4 buckets
so look at it this way

you need to pull 230g per bucket

there much easier to focus on that

so per bucket you need 80z

I believe that is obtainable

so each plant needs 8 28.8g colas
which means you need to manage you canopy into 8 main colas or 16 smaller 1/2oz colas

in any case you now have the numbers to shoot for

It does simplify it. I an used to getting about 150 a plant ON AVERAGE. I always got a couple that hit around a 100 which hurts me. But im really digging the deleafing of the tops to slow them down.
But with this, i could slow down all the plants, and let the 2 scragglers catch up, EVEN THO i prob wont see that as bad if i monocrop..
I would still want to run a net to support and arrange canopy, just wouldnt scrog, basically what your doing now with your net.
So basically i would want 8 nodes, then deleaf the top. Then when the node below caught up, i would deleaf the top and the second node tops going down, and keep working down that way until the bottom branches all caught up to canopy.
I think I understand it pretty good now...