Curmudgeonland...home Of The Old Farts Club

[LittleDabbie]

Trump gets elected
Trump wants to repeal obamacare
Now trump threatens (i think?) to abandon it and go back to obamacare

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

Its called a tempur tantrum.. Its what toddlers do when they don't get there trillion dollar tax cuts for the rich included in the health care bill.. (NOT EVEN KIDDING) It amounted to a trillion dollars in tax breaks.

And the little guy gets none of those.

 

[rmoltis]

RM You would be far worse off under trumpcare, as it stands if insurance lapse the fine is worse!

Why we can't have universal healthcare like the rest of the fucking world... Oh yeah Greed..

All of it needs gone and we need universal healthcare taken from a tax.
Not a businesses product we purchase with profits built in to support everyone else except me.


The whole system is flawed and biased towards companies making profit off of a mandated product. Rather than a regulated system that drives down cost.

 

[LittleDabbie]

Ya'll keep it classy tho i gotta go get some Burgers from..... Culvers!!! Home of the delish dbl butter burger with cheese! and we ain't even in the ghetto!

UNF!

 

[LittleDabbie]

All of it needs gone and we need universal healthcare taken from a tax.
Not a businesses product we purchase with profits built in to support everyone else except me.


The whole system is flawed and biased towards companies making profit. Rather than a regulated system that drives down cost.

Agree!! Lets make it happen! Bonk congress on the noggin and lets get it done.

 

[LocalGrowGuy]

Its called a tempur tantrum.. Its what toddlers do when they don't get there trillion dollar tax cuts for the rich included in the health care bill.. (NOT EVEN KIDDING) It amounted to a trillion dollars in tax breaks.

And the little guy gets none of those.

trumper tantrum?

I have no comment on politics other than to make fun of politicians, but I would enjoy a nerdful discussion in the healthcare thread sometime. :)

I enjoy seeing you guys needle each other without feelings getting hurt too, it makes it much more enjoyable.

 

[mendel]

Ok, because hippie and I been talking bout it in pm, yes I will be at the mich cup in june, repping at the motarebel booth.

Dabbie you need to steal your dads car and come down to meetup w us.

 

[Kraven]

Yea no pansies here, if your thin skinned you just wont last long in the OFC. I too enjoy a good nerdful debate, where the participants don't get personal, just factual. Thats really what the country needs right now imho. We need discussion and compromise back, along with good common sense laws that benefit America and all American's. Really tired of seeing the gov't in deadlock like a bunch of school children bickering over the ball....really embarrassing tbh.

 

[Yard dog]

we should not HAVE to have health insur. just to get simple shit done. if healthcare did not cost sooo much we would not be forced to buy insur. its all a ploy. all the tests that get done, the dr. pads the bill just like car dealerships do when its warranty repair. i was taught to stick it to Ford every chance i get. my boss wants me to be very aggressive with warranty work. if i can get away with replacing it under warranty DO IT! same with healthcare. they do things they know they can get paid for. it helps them make their budgets, and we don't get charged for it. Except the fact that now it cost so much because of all the padding we are now indirectly forced to buy into a healthcare insurance plan

 

[Sunbaked]

great mendel. see you there.

 

[mendel]

great mendel. see you there.

I look forward to it!

 

[LocalGrowGuy]

Yea no pansies here, if your thin skinned you just wont last long in the OFC. I too enjoy a good nerdful debate, where the participants don't get personal, just factual. Thats really what the country needs right now imho. We need discussion and compromise back, along with good common sense laws that benefit America and all American's. Really tired of seeing the gov't in deadlock like a bunch of school children bickering over the ball....really embarrassing tbh.

That would be fantastic, but our healthcare system is 1/6th or 1/5th of our economy. It is not possible to reform that much of our economy via a single piece of legislation. It is worthwhile to look at each part of the system and try and see how we can lower costs, such as tort reform, cost of a doctorate degree, litigation, malpractice, defensive medicine, etc.
http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/wp-c...care-taxes-more-regressive-031317-199x300.png

If we go back to pre-ACA, the issue is one that won't likely get resolved very easily. As I see it, using the example above. Couple pays $1,900 in this example, and the rich couple pays $150,000, although it's a smaller percentage.

I think this is the fundamental disagreement. If you work hard and own something worth ten million bucks, I think it's safe to assume that $150k is a lot and also enough, and I also think the the couple paying $1900 while earning $50k is also fair, and enough. Or is the issue that the higher income earners still aren't paying enough, and if they can afford $150k then $380k should be a breeze too?

 

[LocalGrowGuy]

we should not HAVE to have health insur. just to get simple shit done. if healthcare did not cost sooo much we would not be forced to buy insur. its all a ploy. all the tests that get done, the dr. pads the bill just like car dealerships do when its warranty repair. i was taught to stick it to Ford every chance i get. my boss wants me to be very aggressive with warranty work. if i can get away with replacing it under warranty DO IT! same with healthcare. they do things they know they can get paid for. it helps them make their budgets, and we don't get charged for it. Except the fact that now it cost so much because of all the padding we are now indirectly forced to buy into a healthcare insurance plan

The doctor is practicing defensive medicine and is paying six figures of malpractice insurance, because if he doesn't order every test under the sun, the patient will sue when they get sick.

Or, the doctor has an MRI machine that costs a million dollars a year to operate and maintain and he just wants to order the tests for the income.

yard dog, keep in mind that the doctor doesn't determine the care, the patient does. If the patient doesn't want a thousand dollar MRI then they don't do the mri right?

 

[mendel]

If anyone wants to take me fishing when I go to the cup I will let them and pay for the trip. I am interested in catching the heck out of some small mouth bass.

 

[rmoltis]

yard dog, keep in mind that the doctor doesn't determine the care, the patient does. If the patient doesn't want a thousand dollar MRI then they don't do the mri right?

I need the MRI for my next step in treatment I just can't afford the $3k it costs .

So it's not as simple as I just don't do it.

Wish I had that choice.

 

[Kraven]

Multiple layers of complexity. 20 year nurse so I know the healthcare system well. No easy answers, in every instance someone is going to loose something of value to them. This problem will take generational thinking and sticking to the plan....not an easy task for a rich country like ours....which in itself is silly. I honestly think a new model has to emerge, the old model does not work, the current model is not sustainable so now is the time to think outside of the box, the problem is we don't have thinkers anymore.

 

[rmoltis]

Multiple layers of complexity. 20 year nurse so I know the healthcare system well. No easy answers, in every instance someone is going to loose something of value to them. This problem will take generational thinking and sticking to the plan....not an easy task for a rich country like ours....which in itself is silly. I honestly think a new model has to emerge, the old model does not work, the current model is not sustainable so now is the time to think outside of the box, the problem is we don't have thinkers anymore.

We have lots of thinkers.

They are the average Joe who has intimate insight of what it is like to live as one. It's just these average joes never wish to get into being a politician.


I would love being a representative.
I would work for the people.
But the establishment would never let me , and wouldn't listen to me anyways .

 

[LocalGrowGuy]

I need the MRI for my next step in treatment I just can't afford the $3k it costs .

So it's not as simple as I just don't do it.

Wish I had that choice.

I don't know where you are but cash patients don't pay $3k unless you're at spa-ridge. If you are in denver and willing to shop you are looking at $500 for the imaging, but $47 for the cab fare and a broken arm from being mugged.

Multiple layers of complexity. 20 year nurse so I know the healthcare system well. No easy answers, in every instance someone is going to loose something of value to them. This problem will take generational thinking and sticking to the plan....not an easy task for a rich country like ours....which in itself is silly. I honestly think a new model has to emerge, the old model does not work, the current model is not sustainable so now is the time to think outside of the box, the problem is we don't have thinkers anymore.

Then you also know that most doctors have to employ someone just to work with (against) insurance companies and facilities to get bills paid, pre-auth's done, scripts checked...

20 years of that, way to go you brave soul. I got burned out watching ER.

 

[rmoltis]

I don't know where you are but cash patients don't pay $3k unless you're at spa-ridge. If you are in denver and willing to shop you are looking at $500 for the imaging, but $47 for the cab fare and a broken arm from being mugged.

Calling around locally $3k were the quotes, one was $2700

Maybe I just suck at dealing with the medical industry

 

[LocalGrowGuy]

Calling around locally $3k were the quotes, one was $2700

Maybe I just suck at dealing with the medical industry

That's not it at all, and I hope you don't feel like I am picking nits. There is nothing easy about dealing with third party providers, facilities, and the complete and total lack of transparency. That's been the frustrating thing, the lack of transparency, and when it got political the shit hit the fan and now we're fucked.

"...survey asked for the cash price of a basic MRI of a shoulder -- a test used to diagnose injuries like torn rotator cuffs, arthritis, bone tumors and worn-out cartilage.

The survey found freestanding clinics in Front Range urban areas nearly always charge far less than hospitals.

Least expensive of those surveyed were Thornton Imaging Center northwest of Denver, and at Touchstone Imaging in Lakewood. Both came in at $450, which included the radiologist's fee, which is extra at many other facilities.

Colorado Springs Imaging charges $600. Health Images of City Place in Aurora charges $625, but will discount that price to $500 if patients can pay up front."
and
MRI Shoulder, Arm, Wrist, Hand (Upper Extremity) Cost Average $400 - $1,050

Those aren't as current as I would prefer, but paying less for an MRI is also like getting a root canal at comfort dental. Not ideal but it works in a pinch, and hopefully you aren't at the vet.

 

[rmoltis]

That's not it at all, and I hope you don't feel like I am picking nits. There is nothing easy about dealing with third party providers, facilities, and the complete and total lack of transparency. That's been the frustrating thing, the lack of transparency, and when it got political the shit hit the fan and now we're fucked.

"...survey asked for the cash price of a basic MRI of a shoulder -- a test used to diagnose injuries like torn rotator cuffs, arthritis, bone tumors and worn-out cartilage.

The survey found freestanding clinics in Front Range urban areas nearly always charge far less than hospitals.

Least expensive of those surveyed were Thornton Imaging Center northwest of Denver, and at Touchstone Imaging in Lakewood. Both came in at $450, which included the radiologist's fee, which is extra at many other facilities.

Colorado Springs Imaging charges $600. Health Images of City Place in Aurora charges $625, but will discount that price to $500 if patients can pay up front."
and
MRI Shoulder, Arm, Wrist, Hand (Upper Extremity) Cost Average $400 - $1,050

Those aren't as current as I would prefer, but paying less for an MRI is also like getting a root canal at comfort dental. Not ideal but it works in a pinch, and hopefully you aren't at the vet.

You are not picking nits.
Your just trying to help.

It is just a very frustrating situation.
I wish things were easier.