Deficiency?

Seraphine · Jan 21, 2020

If I read everything correctly, you are growing in coco with a small percentage of soil (I would consider it coco). A few things... I respect your decision to grow organically, however, coco is considered a hydroponic medium and performs best with hydroponic nutrients. That means unless you have mastered coco AND organic nutrients, I would stick with hydroponic nutrients. I grow organically for all my outdoor crops, so I prefer the refined minerals for my indoor coco grows (i fell thats less synthetic). IMO, if you want these plants to grow, change nutrients. Organic just doesn't mix well with coco unless your experienced in both.

I use the masterblend line with calcium nitrate, tomato and veg formula and epsom salts. I ran out of epsom salts so I've just been using a liquid cal-mag supplement.
I feed 1x per day with a decent amount of run off. I have one plant in a solo cup that I have to feed 2x a day.

Per 1 gallon of water:
1/4 teaspoon calcium nitrate
1/4 teaspoon tomato and veg formula
1/4 epsom salts or 2.5mL liquid cal-mag

for flower:
1/4 teaspoon tomato and veg formula
1/4 teaspoon epsom salts or 2/5mL liquid cal-mag

Hope this helps!

Builder0101 · Jan 21, 2020

Seraphine said:
If I read everything correctly, you are growing in coco with a small percentage of soil (I would consider it coco). A few things... I respect your decision to grow organically, however, coco is considered a hydroponic medium and performs best with hydroponic nutrients. That means unless you have mastered coco AND organic nutrients, I would stick with hydroponic nutrients. I grow organically for all my outdoor crops, so I prefer the refined minerals for my indoor coco grows (i fell thats less synthetic). IMO, if you want these plants to grow, change nutrients. Organic just doesn't mix well with coco unless your experienced in both.

I use the masterblend line with calcium nitrate, tomato and veg formula and epsom salts. I ran out of epsom salts so I've just been using a liquid cal-mag supplement.
I feed 1x per day with a decent amount of run off. I have one plant in a solo cup that I have to feed 2x a day.

Per 1 gallon of water:
1/4 teaspoon calcium nitrate
1/4 teaspoon tomato and veg formula
1/4 epsom salts or 2.5mL liquid cal-mag

for flower:
1/4 teaspoon tomato and veg formula
1/4 teaspoon epsom salts or 2/5mL liquid cal-mag

Hope this helps!

Thank you

Builder0101 · Jan 22, 2020

I want to thank you all for your help and input. It appears that it was overwatering. I am amazed at how devastated the plants looked when I checked in on them yesterday AM. For future reference when using cloth pots setting g them on large folded towels does a great job of drawing out water. It does not make sense to me that the 10% soil can prevent draining to the extent that my mix acts nothing like coco. I do wish I had found in my research to rinse the fines from the coco. Perhaps it would make the difference. the soil was going in regardless in hindsight that was obviously a mistake. Next plant will get 5% soil.

SPARECHANGE · Jan 22, 2020

i believe i read that in - i forget the title, just now, but I'd read it in a book something about the basic needs of grass. could swear it said it just kisses the ph so- that's good intel... and- as it was seemingly, incomplete intel... u have the entire picture.
bobthebuilder! journal, man. u have ur students b4 u, already and a great pic history to wart off evil spirits for future growers.

sera is the brightest bulb in the room... fyi. pay close attention
screen shot it all...

SPARECHANGE · Jan 22, 2020

view this as a learning experience. luckily, it happened, early on. ur attention to ur plants and genuine concerns for their well being... ur gonna b great at this. don't give up. begin, again and if u maintain a journal, here... leave the link.
u already... saw the usual suspects... and we will stalk u to the finish line, to the best of our abilities.

Builder0101 · Jan 22, 2020

SPARECHANGE said:
view this as a learning experience. luckily, it happened, early on. ur attention to ur plants and genuine concerns for their well being... ur gonna b great at this. don't give up. begin, again and if u maintain a journal, here... leave the link.
u already... saw the usual suspects... and we will stalk u to the finish line, to the best of our abilities.

Update Watered today to 20% runoff. 640 net ppm. Which may be high for 22 day old plants(from germination) 6 hours later they were wilting. Ugh!

Not only can I not water on a regular basis. I am going to have to figure out how to water them just enough and often enough and then I'm also going to have to keep a schedule where I flush them regularly and immediately place them on towels after runoff to pull additional moisture out if pots. I'll have to give them a gallon every other day for 3 cycles then flush them on the 4th or something to that effect.
Bottom line: Do Not Try 10% Soil. Or perhaps the real issue is I depended on the pearlite which was in the Pro Mix HP to be sufficient. in my 40 gallon mix (guessing aprox 180 litre) I could/should have added as much as 10 litres pearlite. Lessons lessons.

Anthem · Jan 22, 2020

MIMedGrower said:
Why have I never met or heard of a user in 35 years that has has these symptoms related to marijuana?

And why is it only being discovered now?

I am really curious about this.

This is unfortunately 100 percent true. Actually first heard about it on the radio from a ER physician. I have a friend that gets it as well.

MIMedGrower · Jan 22, 2020

Anthem said:
This is unfortunately 100 percent true. Actually first heard about it on the radio from a ER physician. I have a friend that gets it as well.

It has to be from an additive. It has only been happening for a few years. Something in the weed. Neem? It just doesnt make sense.

And i come from a family with doctors and scientists and the doctors mostly go with what the AMA and pharmaceutical business tell them.

Anthem · Jan 22, 2020

MIMedGrower said:
It has to be from an additive. It has only been happening for a few years. Something in the weed. Neem? It just doesnt make sense.

And i come from a family with doctors and scientists and the doctors mostly go with what the AMA and pharmaceutical business tell them.

the guy i know that gets it grows his own and it is 100percent organic. Have to remember the industry is always trying to increase the the levels in the plant so it could also be related to increased THC levels.

MIMedGrower · Jan 22, 2020

Anthem said:
the guy i know that gets it grows his own and it is 100percent organic. Have to remember the industry is always trying to increase the the levels in the plant so it could also be related to increased THC levels.

Fair enough. I was thinking about that after i answered. Could it be the imbalance of canabanoids in the high thc strains. Same reason they dont get is higher?

Beachwalker · Jan 22, 2020

Builder0101 said:
Update Watered today to 20% runoff. 640 net ppm. Which may be high for 22 day old plants(from germination) 6 hours later they were wilting. Ugh!

Not only can I not water on a regular basis. I am going to have to figure out how to water them just enough and often enough and then I'm also going to have to keep a schedule where I flush them regularly and immediately place them on towels after runoff to pull additional moisture out if pots. I'll have to give them a gallon every other day for 3 cycles then flush them on the 4th or something to that effect.
Bottom line: Do Not Try 10% Soil. Or perhaps the real issue is I depended on the pearlite which was in the Pro Mix HP to be sufficient. in my 40 gallon mix (guessing aprox 180 litre) I could/should have added as much as 10 litres pearlite. Lessons lessons.

What do you mean wilting? Do you have a picture

Drip emitters will automate your watering if your having trouble keeping a regular schedule

I've seen many people who mix even 50/50 with what your using and not having problem so I'm suspicious of what's going on?

In the morning I'll re-read your thread over coffee and see if I can spot something and/or make some suggestions

Builder0101 · Jan 22, 2020

In the morning I'll re-read your thread over coffee and see if I can spot something and/or make some suggestions
[/QUOTE]

Thank you

SPARECHANGE · Jan 23, 2020

Builder0101 said:
Update Watered today to 20% runoff. 640 net ppm. Which may be high for 22 day old plants(from germination) 6 hours later they were wilting. Ugh!

Not only can I not water on a regular basis. I am going to have to figure out how to water them just enough and often enough and then I'm also going to have to keep a schedule where I flush them regularly and immediately place them on towels after runoff to pull additional moisture out if pots. I'll have to give them a gallon every other day for 3 cycles then flush them on the 4th or something to that effect.
Bottom line: Do Not Try 10% Soil. Or perhaps the real issue is I depended on the pearlite which was in the Pro Mix HP to be sufficient. in my 40 gallon mix (guessing aprox 180 litre) I could/should have added as much as 10 litres pearlite. Lessons lessons.

nononono there's a pattern forming and if i ... I'll freak

@Seraphine
and skol would c it... beachy

I'm so bummed for u
u tryin so hard
workin so hard
trying to do the right thing

EVERYONE sees that

i i i can't look at it again
think algebra
think avgs

i know she said it's a hydro setup
or perhaps it was someone else
i dunno that u won't freak out
the ladies
flushing your curds and whey
so often
please don't take
my sunshine
away

SPARECHANGE · Jan 23, 2020

there is a book; an article
somewhere
i forget
that elaboates
on stage and ppm
til u get the hang of it
STOP
with the nute push
and life stresses
towards torches
and pitchforks
someone said 400ish
good thing it ummmm
cyclical
ummm
happened so early

- an infamous
killer of seed

Beachwalker · Jan 23, 2020

Builder0101 said:
Thanks.

Here it is. Wrote this once on my phone but it dissapeared.
This Is my 1st real grow. I am in a 4x4 Vivisun tent. Running a Pllizon Cree COB 3000. RH 50-55°. Av temp 75-78f. 72 with lights off. Light 19/5. I mixed 20 gal cheap coco did not rinse or buffer (mistake I know) 20 gal pro mix hp. 2 cups ea kelp meal, alfalfa meal, bat guano, green sand, 2 cups bone meal. 2 gal ea happy frog and fox farm. 6 cups worm castings. 1 cup azomite. I hydrated the coco with 5 gal tap water and 5 tablespoons unsulphered molasses. Lights were 30" from tops. Moved them up to 36 yesterday. I top dressed with 3 tablespoons each of organic dry 444 and 284. I recently started using cal mag at 50%. I PH my water between 5.8 and 6.2. My water is 200 ppm after PHing and cal mag. My runoff today was 747. I water every 16-18 hours. I am considering this a hydro and I know I will be told it is not soil less mix. I am 14 days from veg and top nose is 3rf node. The photo is of Critical Purple. I also have cream and tangerine dream. All Autos by the way. I water to about 10% runoff. I remove runoff from trays. Not sure if I should run the COBs only, COBs and panel, or just panel. I have an oscillating tower fan blowing across plants. I have a 9" fan blowing up across the light. a 4" inline carbon exhaust, and a small fan pulling in air from lower tent vent. The 9" fan is blowing up across my 2 1 gal homemade co2 generators. That's about it.

This is why I lost track of your thread because I don't grow in Coco

Seraphine said:
If I read everything correctly, you are growing in coco with a small percentage of soil (I would consider it coco). A few things... I respect your decision to grow organically, however, coco is considered a hydroponic medium and performs best with hydroponic nutrients. That means unless you have mastered coco AND organic nutrients, I would stick with hydroponic nutrients. I grow organically for all my outdoor crops, so I prefer the refined minerals for my indoor coco grows (i fell thats less synthetic). IMO, if you want these plants to grow, change nutrients. Organic just doesn't mix well with coco unless your experienced in both.

I use the masterblend line with calcium nitrate, tomato and veg formula and epsom salts. I ran out of epsom salts so I've just been using a liquid cal-mag supplement.
I feed 1x per day with a decent amount of run off. I have one plant in a solo cup that I have to feed 2x a day.

Per 1 gallon of water:
1/4 teaspoon calcium nitrate
1/4 teaspoon tomato and veg formula
1/4 epsom salts or 2.5mL liquid cal-mag

for flower:
1/4 teaspoon tomato and veg formula
1/4 teaspoon epsom salts or 2/5mL liquid cal-mag

Hope this helps!

^ I would trust this growers advise all day mr builder, good luck!

Ps. I also use and highly recommend Masterblend

Builder0101 · Jan 23, 2020

Thank you

Builder0101 · Jan 23, 2020

SPARECHANGE said:
there is a book; an article
somewhere
i forget
that elaboates
on stage and ppm
til u get the hang of it
STOP
with the nute push
and life stresses
towards torches
and pitchforks
someone said 400ish
good thing it ummmm
cyclical
ummm
happened so early

- an infamous
killer of seed

I use no notes In my water. All dry organics in medium.
I think i have to flush every 3 or 4 waterings. Coco holds salts etc. If i water to runoff they wilt from overwatering. So i can only water enough to satisfy them but i will have to flush them every so often. My runoff ppm was 150 points higher after not flushing for one cycle up from about 400 to 550. I think 300-500 ppm is good for young plants. These are 23 days since germination. I think they can handle a higher ppm. I will wait till week 4 to top dress. Though you know I want to top dress sooner. Or should I wait till the ppm drops to x? What is x?

Builder0101 · Jan 24, 2020

Perhaps my issue is not the 10% soil but the 40% peat moss.

Beachwalker · Jan 24, 2020

Builder0101 said:
There is a lot but just a little of each. There is 10% soil but this mix still drains/dries like pure coco. No way I can go 24 hours between waterings. I watered at 4 am it is now 3 pm and the medium is moist to the point that I could definitely water again. I'm going to wait a few more hours. 16-18 seems to be working well. My last runoff adjusted ppm was 389. I believe that is about perfect for plants between 3 and 6" (7.5_15cm). If the ppm holds for another week I can amend with confidence. I will also give them tea at some point. Probably a couple days before amending. makes sense.

Builder0101 said:
Perhaps my issue is not the 10% soil but the 40% peat moss.

Top you give one description of your medium; but in the second quote you give another, which is it?

Builder0101 · Jan 27, 2020

About to give my plants some tea. Since I treat this as a coco grow I PH to 5.8-6.2. My tea is 7.6. I am scared.

Photo added just as an update. They are not praying this AM so I think they are thirsty. 2 days since water.

Should I be nervous about the PH?

Deficiency?

Deficiency?

Seraphine

Builder0101

Builder0101

SPARECHANGE

SPARECHANGE

Builder0101

Anthem

MIMedGrower

Anthem

MIMedGrower

Beachwalker

Builder0101

SPARECHANGE

SPARECHANGE

Beachwalker

Builder0101

Builder0101

Builder0101

Beachwalker

Builder0101

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