soserthc1
- 7,040
- 313
awesome answer ......
do you guys think wall reflection REALLY makes a big difference?
soserthc1
- 7,040
- 313
how the hell do you know that ......i smell a contractor .....lol
tattoojim
Unknown farmer
Supporter
- 9,055
- 313
12 x 12 30$
tattoojim
Unknown farmer
Supporter
- 9,055
- 313
lol ;) im a painter bro....brush and roll walls...spray all my doors and trim:D
420Gator
- 1,281
- 83
I see some aluminium foil in there. I was thinking you could ball out at the dollar store and drop a dub on some foil. how much mylar can I get for 20 bucks??
and I have no evidence to back this up but Im thinking something that I can see a clear reflection in has to be even more reflective than white yea??? just sayin
and I have no evidence to back this up but Im thinking something that I can see a clear reflection in has to be even more reflective than white yea??? just sayin
tattoojim
Unknown farmer
Supporter
- 9,055
- 313
no foil in my room bro...just pieced together mylar ..nothing perfect in my room,,,just some guy that threw together a grow ;)..poor boy not a baller
tattoojim
Unknown farmer
Supporter
- 9,055
- 313
flat white is one of the best ..for the price imo
im sure there are numbers out there some where, that shows the difference between each covering
im sure there are numbers out there some where, that shows the difference between each covering
soserthc1
- 7,040
- 313
i guess that seemed to obvious lol....ugggg painting sucks man ....
tattoojim
Unknown farmer
Supporter
- 9,055
- 313
thats why most painters drink lol...not this cat tho ;)
soserthc1
- 7,040
- 313
all books and such either say mylar or flat white paint that i have read and it has been alot of books ......
reeldrag
- 273
- 63
i think it is marginal at best BUT I am already paying for the power to run the light so Im gonna get every lumen out of it! plants may not care but I sleep better knowing that Im getting my money worth
fishwhistle
- 4,686
- 263
From what ive read the difference between flat white paint and all the other reflective materials is not much but when i see the growrooms of much more skilled growers than myself covered in reflectix or orca i wonder if they know something i dont?
I talked to a lighting guy once who told me dark colors or even dark spots(like in a corner of a ceiling for example)will steal your light,actually bending it towards the dark areas away from your plants so maybe the reflectivity brightens the room more getting rid of dark spots and allowing the light to go where you need it on your plants?
I know there is an additive called titanium dioxide that can be mixed with flat white paint to make it more reflective.There is a youtube video that shows the difference of orca film/no orca film using a lightmeter but they are trying to sell it to you also so i dont know how much faith i put in it.
I talked to a lighting guy once who told me dark colors or even dark spots(like in a corner of a ceiling for example)will steal your light,actually bending it towards the dark areas away from your plants so maybe the reflectivity brightens the room more getting rid of dark spots and allowing the light to go where you need it on your plants?
I know there is an additive called titanium dioxide that can be mixed with flat white paint to make it more reflective.There is a youtube video that shows the difference of orca film/no orca film using a lightmeter but they are trying to sell it to you also so i dont know how much faith i put in it.
fishwhistle
- 4,686
- 263
Found this,doesnt really address reflectix or orca but has a little info.
What reflective materials can I use for my grow room?
Contributed by: DaChronicKing
Choosing the right surface for the walls of your grow room is very important, as up to 40% of your total yield comes from the edge, and the right wall surface can increase the amount of light those plants receive by up to 30%! Artificial lighting diminishes exponentially with distance, so it is important to 'contain' as much of this light as possible, and direct it accordingly. Reflective surfaces also help illuminate the lower portions of the garden, providing lower buds with light and heat energy.
To get the best results with your light and walls, it is important to get the walls as close as possible to your garden to ensure the least amount of light is wasted. As a caveat, the percentages provided are only useful as a general guideline, as they present the range of reflectivity of the particular surfaces. The high percentage presents the best possible circumstances for that material (for example a 99% reflectivity rating for mylar sheeting would be under ideal conditions - no creases, completely flat, no discoloration, etc).
The best way to determine how well your grow room walls reflect light would be to purchase a light meter and measure your light directly; then take an opaque board and hold it a few inches off one of your walls with the light meter below the board in such a fashion that the light reflects off the wall and onto the light meter. You can then compare the difference between the two and determine a percentage from those numbers, the closer the two numbers are, the better your wall reflects light. It is important that in both measurements, your light meter is the same distance from the light, otherwise your results will be skewed.
Also important to note is that radiant light energy refers to electromagnetic (EM) radiation with a wavelength between 400-700 nanometers (nm) and radiant heat energy correlates to EM radiation with a wavelength between 800-2000nm.
Listed below are some of the most commonly used materials used for grow room walls:
Foylon:
A more durable version of mylar, made of spun polyester fabric and reinforced with foil laminate. Foylon is resistant to most solutions, won't tear or fade, and can be wiped or washed clean.
A great solution for growers who are interested in long term use, and though it may be slightly more expensive than mylar, its durability will more than make up for its cost. It has the ability to reflect about 95% of the light and approximately 85% of the heat energy, so a good ventilation system should be used in conjunction with folyon.
A recommended method to attach Foylon to the walls would be using Velcro, as it makes taking it down for cleaning much easier nd reduces the risk of tearing, creasing or bending it. If this is used for your walls, making sure you get it flush with the wall with no pockets of air between it and the wall to prevent hotspots.
Mylar:
A highly reflective polyester film that comes in varying thickness, the most common being 1 and 2 mm thick. The 2mm thick mylar while not quite as durable as the foylon, is fairly rugged. The 1mm thick mylar tears fairly easily, so taking it down for cleaning is quite difficult without damaging it in the process. Both types of mylar are able to reflect approximately 92-97% reflective, giving it the potential to be more reflective than foylon, but because foylon is more easily cleaned without damaging it as well as it being harder to crease, foylon usually ends up being slightly more reflective. Important to note is that mylar reflects radiant heat energy just as well as foylon (around 85%), so proper ventilation is necessary if mylar is used in your grow room. Attaching this to walls can be done in a similar fashion as foylon, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room. The 1mm thick mylar stands a fair chance of being creased or ripped in the process unfortunately, even if Velcro is used to attach to the walls.
C3 anti-detection film:
A specialized type of mylar that exhibits the same properties as the 2mm thick mylar, but in addition to reflecting approximately 92-97% of the light, it also is 90% infrared proof, making your grow room all but invisible to IR scanning. This can also be attached in the same manner as foylon or mylar, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room.
Flat white paint:
Self explanatory; a great option for large grow rooms or for people who are interested in a low maintenance wall. Flat white paint has the ability to reflect between 75-85% of the light, and does not create hotspots. Adding a fungicide is recommended when painting.
Glossy and eggshell whites not reflect light as efficiently as flat white. Semi-gloss paint for example, only has the ability to reflect between 55-60% of the light. Also important to remember when using paint is that any smears or blemishes on the surface take away from how reflective the wall is so care should be taken to avoid marking or staining the walls. Titanium white paint is very reflective; however it is usually only used on reflectors due to its high cost.
Elastomere paint (info by furun)
A rubberized roofing paint with 90% reflection. Good for growboxes. Mildew resistant. Highly reflective.
Kool Seal White Elastomeric Roof Coating ~ $15.00 (1 Gallon)
Ultra high reflectivity
Forms a rubber-like blanket that expands and contracts
Adheres to almost any surface (very good on wood and metal)
Available @ www.lowes.com
White/Black plastic (also known as panda plastic or "poly"):
"Poly" is useful if you are setting up a temporary grow room or don't want to damage the walls. Poly is easily cleaned.
The purpose of the black side is to not allow any light to pass through the plastic, which ensures your dark cycle remains dark. The white side is 75-90% reflective. Choose a 6 "mill" thickness of poly for maximum light blockage and duribility.
If this plastic is put too close to the light, you will obviously melt it so be careful!. Panda plastic does not create hotspots. Poly can be attached to the walls by using carpenter's nails or using tape glue or similar means. This can be used as a cheap alternative to mylar if painting your grow room is out of the question.
Polystyrene Foam Sheeting (more commonly known as Styrofoam):
This is excellent for harsh environment growrooms (your attic for example), provided you have a good ventilation system and a way to keep the temperatures from rising too high (an a/c unit or similar) as it is an excellent insulator.
It is also a great material for use in a temporary setup or for use as a "travelling reflector" on a light mover, where weight is a concern. It is approximately 75-85% light reflective so it is comparable to using a flat white paint. Foam will not create hot spots. Rigid foam can be purchased in sheets, and can be used as a free standing wall or can be taped, glued or nailed to the wall, the last generally being the most successful method.
Emergency Blankets:
These are ultra thin polyester blankets that are sold in most camping stores and are constructed of a single layer of polyester film that is covered with a layer of vapor deposited aluminum.
It is not very effective at reflecting light because it is so thin. Holding it between you and a light source, many small holes are noticed at the intersections of creases and the entire blanket is translucent to begin with, this coupled with the many creases that are in it when you purchase it takes away a significant amount of it reflectivity. It is very easily creased as well which also detracts from its ability to reflect light. And while it is reflects nearly 90% of radiant heat energy, it is only able to reflect around 70% of the light.
The largest advantage of using this type of material is that it is very cheap and therefore easily replaced. Emergency blankets can create hotspots if not attached flush to the wall so it is important that no air gaps exist between it and your supporting wall. The easiest way to attach this is to use tape (Aluminum or metal tape is recommended), as it tears very easily once it is cut or punctured.
Aluminum Foil:
Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective - if used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hotspots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting. Attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is question
What reflective materials can I use for my grow room?
Contributed by: DaChronicKing
Choosing the right surface for the walls of your grow room is very important, as up to 40% of your total yield comes from the edge, and the right wall surface can increase the amount of light those plants receive by up to 30%! Artificial lighting diminishes exponentially with distance, so it is important to 'contain' as much of this light as possible, and direct it accordingly. Reflective surfaces also help illuminate the lower portions of the garden, providing lower buds with light and heat energy.
To get the best results with your light and walls, it is important to get the walls as close as possible to your garden to ensure the least amount of light is wasted. As a caveat, the percentages provided are only useful as a general guideline, as they present the range of reflectivity of the particular surfaces. The high percentage presents the best possible circumstances for that material (for example a 99% reflectivity rating for mylar sheeting would be under ideal conditions - no creases, completely flat, no discoloration, etc).
The best way to determine how well your grow room walls reflect light would be to purchase a light meter and measure your light directly; then take an opaque board and hold it a few inches off one of your walls with the light meter below the board in such a fashion that the light reflects off the wall and onto the light meter. You can then compare the difference between the two and determine a percentage from those numbers, the closer the two numbers are, the better your wall reflects light. It is important that in both measurements, your light meter is the same distance from the light, otherwise your results will be skewed.
Also important to note is that radiant light energy refers to electromagnetic (EM) radiation with a wavelength between 400-700 nanometers (nm) and radiant heat energy correlates to EM radiation with a wavelength between 800-2000nm.
Listed below are some of the most commonly used materials used for grow room walls:
A more durable version of mylar, made of spun polyester fabric and reinforced with foil laminate. Foylon is resistant to most solutions, won't tear or fade, and can be wiped or washed clean.
A great solution for growers who are interested in long term use, and though it may be slightly more expensive than mylar, its durability will more than make up for its cost. It has the ability to reflect about 95% of the light and approximately 85% of the heat energy, so a good ventilation system should be used in conjunction with folyon.
A recommended method to attach Foylon to the walls would be using Velcro, as it makes taking it down for cleaning much easier nd reduces the risk of tearing, creasing or bending it. If this is used for your walls, making sure you get it flush with the wall with no pockets of air between it and the wall to prevent hotspots.
A highly reflective polyester film that comes in varying thickness, the most common being 1 and 2 mm thick. The 2mm thick mylar while not quite as durable as the foylon, is fairly rugged. The 1mm thick mylar tears fairly easily, so taking it down for cleaning is quite difficult without damaging it in the process. Both types of mylar are able to reflect approximately 92-97% reflective, giving it the potential to be more reflective than foylon, but because foylon is more easily cleaned without damaging it as well as it being harder to crease, foylon usually ends up being slightly more reflective. Important to note is that mylar reflects radiant heat energy just as well as foylon (around 85%), so proper ventilation is necessary if mylar is used in your grow room. Attaching this to walls can be done in a similar fashion as foylon, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room. The 1mm thick mylar stands a fair chance of being creased or ripped in the process unfortunately, even if Velcro is used to attach to the walls.
C3 anti-detection film:
A specialized type of mylar that exhibits the same properties as the 2mm thick mylar, but in addition to reflecting approximately 92-97% of the light, it also is 90% infrared proof, making your grow room all but invisible to IR scanning. This can also be attached in the same manner as foylon or mylar, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room.
Flat white paint:
Self explanatory; a great option for large grow rooms or for people who are interested in a low maintenance wall. Flat white paint has the ability to reflect between 75-85% of the light, and does not create hotspots. Adding a fungicide is recommended when painting.
Glossy and eggshell whites not reflect light as efficiently as flat white. Semi-gloss paint for example, only has the ability to reflect between 55-60% of the light. Also important to remember when using paint is that any smears or blemishes on the surface take away from how reflective the wall is so care should be taken to avoid marking or staining the walls. Titanium white paint is very reflective; however it is usually only used on reflectors due to its high cost.
Elastomere paint (info by furun)
A rubberized roofing paint with 90% reflection. Good for growboxes. Mildew resistant. Highly reflective.
Kool Seal White Elastomeric Roof Coating ~ $15.00 (1 Gallon)
Ultra high reflectivity
Forms a rubber-like blanket that expands and contracts
Adheres to almost any surface (very good on wood and metal)
Available @ www.lowes.com
White/Black plastic (also known as panda plastic or "poly"):
"Poly" is useful if you are setting up a temporary grow room or don't want to damage the walls. Poly is easily cleaned.
The purpose of the black side is to not allow any light to pass through the plastic, which ensures your dark cycle remains dark. The white side is 75-90% reflective. Choose a 6 "mill" thickness of poly for maximum light blockage and duribility.
If this plastic is put too close to the light, you will obviously melt it so be careful!. Panda plastic does not create hotspots. Poly can be attached to the walls by using carpenter's nails or using tape glue or similar means. This can be used as a cheap alternative to mylar if painting your grow room is out of the question.
Polystyrene Foam Sheeting (more commonly known as Styrofoam):
This is excellent for harsh environment growrooms (your attic for example), provided you have a good ventilation system and a way to keep the temperatures from rising too high (an a/c unit or similar) as it is an excellent insulator.
It is also a great material for use in a temporary setup or for use as a "travelling reflector" on a light mover, where weight is a concern. It is approximately 75-85% light reflective so it is comparable to using a flat white paint. Foam will not create hot spots. Rigid foam can be purchased in sheets, and can be used as a free standing wall or can be taped, glued or nailed to the wall, the last generally being the most successful method.
These are ultra thin polyester blankets that are sold in most camping stores and are constructed of a single layer of polyester film that is covered with a layer of vapor deposited aluminum.
It is not very effective at reflecting light because it is so thin. Holding it between you and a light source, many small holes are noticed at the intersections of creases and the entire blanket is translucent to begin with, this coupled with the many creases that are in it when you purchase it takes away a significant amount of it reflectivity. It is very easily creased as well which also detracts from its ability to reflect light. And while it is reflects nearly 90% of radiant heat energy, it is only able to reflect around 70% of the light.
The largest advantage of using this type of material is that it is very cheap and therefore easily replaced. Emergency blankets can create hotspots if not attached flush to the wall so it is important that no air gaps exist between it and your supporting wall. The easiest way to attach this is to use tape (Aluminum or metal tape is recommended), as it tears very easily once it is cut or punctured.
Aluminum Foil:
Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective - if used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hotspots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting. Attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is question
Thoth
- 446
- 63
Considering how much light can be absorbed/relfected depending on the material used, I would say yes, it makes a difference.
midwestdensies
- 2,886
- 263
reflectix and orca if at a minimum could gain 5% on a room thats alot of dough just sayin. far more than theycost. And it is insulation that work wonders and can be used everywhere in the least.
G
gold bar
- 36
- 8
80 % of growing GAINS come from 20 % of your EFFORTS
this is not one of them
this is not one of them
dankworth
- 1,519
- 163
Prefer reflectix personally.
Can check with a $50 light meter what the light values are when reflective walls are placed as close to the canopy as possible. It is worth the work.
Can check with a $50 light meter what the light values are when reflective walls are placed as close to the canopy as possible. It is worth the work.
ttystikk
- 6,892
- 313
Since no one has put it this way, I will; try proving that placing high percentage reflective materials on the walls WON'T work. 'nuff said.
The article fish pasted above is right on point, and I can add a few more tips; place walls right at the edge of your canopy; the closer the reflective material is to your plants, the more effective it is. This means that you do NOT have an aisle between your plants and the reflective wall; it's too far away to be useful!
Consider angling your reflective materials inward at the top slightly; this will help focus light towards the outer edges of your garen and thus helps compensate for the distance from the light source.
The article fish pasted above is right on point, and I can add a few more tips; place walls right at the edge of your canopy; the closer the reflective material is to your plants, the more effective it is. This means that you do NOT have an aisle between your plants and the reflective wall; it's too far away to be useful!
Consider angling your reflective materials inward at the top slightly; this will help focus light towards the outer edges of your garen and thus helps compensate for the distance from the light source.
soserthc1
- 7,040
- 313
thought would be which is better paint or reflective material and at what % . I would be curious as to what the people you generally have the best yields on here use say Waayne or SMF not saying that other don't grow as good but I have seen Waayne for example throw up some pictures that look way more farther along than they are. I also would think that if the % was not much different between reflective material and paint , then paint would be the way to go as it much easier to maintain as cleaning and if a bug problem occurs less places for them to hide. Also curious about the titanium dioxide ?has anyone done this ,
fishwhistle
- 4,686
- 263
I was hoping you would chime in here,after all you are the reflectix king biatttch!
I agree soser,i also would like to hear hear from others and figure out if the cost justifies the gains over white paint.I learned about the titanium dioxide through internet research on reflective paint,i think its available as an additive at the paint stores,I know they use it in areas they want to brighten while not increasing the wattage of lights on government jobs/hospitals etc.,maybe tattoojim will chime in I think hes a painter.There is also a company called growilla that makes grow room paint with the additive in it(monstergardens carries it)and they claim 95% LRV (light reflectivity value),if thats true it dont get much better than that but i dont know that i beleive it just yet.
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