Do You Use Caps Bennies While Cloning?

[Capulator]

I don't feel like cleaning my garage so I am going to do this sort of detailed. lol If you know a lot of this don't take it the wrong way just trying to be thorough. I had a hard time with cloning. I am frigging great at it now.

First off, make sure your Mom is fully hydrated and as healthy as can be, this is critical to cloning success. I have cloned stressed moms and they turn out fine but usually require some babying to get the clones to root and revive.

I mix one teaspoon of root and nute (nute not necessary but if I have it I use it) per liter of water, I usually make a half gallon...I do bubble it for about an hour. I think it helps bring them out of stasis, but this is not going to hurt you. Okay, soak your rooters for about fifteen minutes. I stay clean clean clean. I always have a bleach mixture on hand and I spray on my hands and forearms, wash hands in warn soapy water first, wipe on or spray bleach on hands, cutting tools, surfaces you will be using etc.....

I use a 50 space cloner tray, like the kind you can buy the rapid rooters already in, I only put in 25 per tray, I keep one space in between each rooter. So one row will have three, next one two...etc.

I cut my clones a little long but with a healthy mom this is also not a deal breaker. I don't split the cut, I use sharp trimmers, cut my clone, trim off all but top two SETS of leaves. This used to confuse me when I read this in books. Here is the science.... When you clone you immediately put the cut into emergency survival mode. It only wants to root, and only needs minimal light, high humidity and enough sugar to do rooting. It gets the sugars by using chlorophyll in the leaves and converts it to sugar and uses stored sugars, the top two sets of leaves will supply this. So keeping a bunch of leaves on actually stresses it as it has to also try and keep those leaves healthy while it's rooting. The two sets of leaves will be the growing tip plus the first two nodes under it. If you are confused about this message me. You should only have the growing tip and two fan leaves opposite each other directly under the growing tip. Again this will not make or break your cloning attempt but it just has helped me to keep all my cuts uniform. I have virtually no yellowing of leaves doing it this way.

So I take my cut using sharp trimmers, I cut the nodes of up to the last two sets as I previously explained. I leave at least an 1/8 inch of stub off every node just like when pruning a tree. This reduces the area contaminants can enter through. Now you can do each cut individually, I do, or you can do a bunch, or all your cuts, put them in a Solo cup with some of the bennie mixture (preferably) that you made or tap water. I use RO personally, again this is just preference. One other thing, I replaced my t5's in my cloning cabinet with old school t12's, cool white tube fixture. Much more gentle on clones. I don't care what people say, I get healthier clones with these lights or if all you have is a T5 or CFL make the light indirect if you can or raise it at least a good 12" away from clones. Just my opinion.

Okay, take your cut and have gel ready (or whatever you prefer) I can tell you that I feel Clonex gel is the best. It has a ideal IBA percentage. 3000 ppm. First, I use an exacto knife with a new blade or a scalpel, trim the last two nodes of even with the stem and also cut the end of the stem at 45 degrees. I immediately dip it in the gel, hold it over the rooter hole and let one or two drops of gel go into rooter, redip clone and stick that mother in there. I then take tweezers and push about three pieces of Rapid Rooter down into hole. After filling tray up, I immediately cover with a dome with vents in top, you know the taller Mondi domes, about $6 apiece, and I keep the vents closed for three days. I take it off about two to three times a day for fresh air but the clones require hardly any air, humidity is way more important. I open the vents up on the third day and let it go for about 3 more days before I even check for roots. Don't keep pulling the rooters in and out, like I used to, it's a bad habit and when they do root you will break roots almost everytime you take one out and put back in.

Okay hope that wasn't too detailed.

Great post click!

 

[click80]

Thanks Cap.

By the way, success with your advice on getting my seeds started. Great advice.

Thank you again.

 

[OCKushCollector]

I don't feel like cleaning my garage so I am going to do this sort of detailed. lol If you know a lot of this don't take it the wrong way just trying to be thorough. I had a hard time with cloning. I am frigging great at it now.

First off, make sure your Mom is fully hydrated and as healthy as can be, this is critical to cloning success. I have cloned stressed moms and they turn out fine but usually require some babying to get the clones to root and revive.

I mix one teaspoon of root and nute (nute not necessary but if I have it I use it) per liter of water, I usually make a half gallon...I do bubble it for about an hour. I think it helps bring them out of stasis, but this is not going to hurt you. Okay, soak your rooters for about fifteen minutes. I stay clean clean clean. I always have a bleach mixture on hand and I spray on my hands and forearms, wash hands in warn soapy water first, wipe on or spray bleach on hands, cutting tools, surfaces you will be using etc.....

I use a 50 space cloner tray, like the kind you can buy the rapid rooters already in, I only put in 25 per tray, I keep one space in between each rooter. So one row will have three, next one two...etc.

I cut my clones a little long but with a healthy mom this is also not a deal breaker. I don't split the cut, I use sharp trimmers, cut my clone, trim off all but top two SETS of leaves. This used to confuse me when I read this in books. Here is the science.... When you clone you immediately put the cut into emergency survival mode. It only wants to root, and only needs minimal light, high humidity and enough sugar to do rooting. It gets the sugars by using chlorophyll in the leaves and converts it to sugar and uses stored sugars, the top two sets of leaves will supply this. So keeping a bunch of leaves on actually stresses it as it has to also try and keep those leaves healthy while it's rooting. The two sets of leaves will be the growing tip plus the first two nodes under it. If you are confused about this message me. You should only have the growing tip and two fan leaves opposite each other directly under the growing tip. Again this will not make or break your cloning attempt but it just has helped me to keep all my cuts uniform. I have virtually no yellowing of leaves doing it this way.

So I take my cut using sharp trimmers, I cut the nodes of up to the last two sets as I previously explained. I leave at least an 1/8 inch of stub off every node just like when pruning a tree. This reduces the area contaminants can enter through. Now you can do each cut individually, I do, or you can do a bunch, or all your cuts, put them in a Solo cup with some of the bennie mixture (preferably) that you made or tap water. I use RO personally, again this is just preference. One other thing, I replaced my t5's in my cloning cabinet with old school t12's, cool white tube fixture. Much more gentle on clones. I don't care what people say, I get healthier clones with these lights or if all you have is a T5 or CFL make the light indirect if you can or raise it at least a good 12" away from clones. Just my opinion.

Okay, take your cut and have gel ready (or whatever you prefer) I can tell you that I feel Clonex gel is the best. It has a ideal IBA percentage. 3000 ppm. First, I use an exacto knife with a new blade or a scalpel, trim the last two nodes of even with the stem and also cut the end of the stem at 45 degrees. I immediately dip it in the gel, hold it over the rooter hole and let one or two drops of gel go into rooter, redip clone and stick that mother in there. I then take tweezers and push about three pieces of Rapid Rooter down into hole. After filling tray up, I immediately cover with a dome with vents in top, you know the taller Mondi domes, about $6 apiece, and I keep the vents closed for three days. I take it off about two to three times a day for fresh air but the clones require hardly any air, humidity is way more important. I open the vents up on the third day and let it go for about 3 more days before I even check for roots. Don't keep pulling the rooters in and out, like I used to, it's a bad habit and when they do root you will break roots almost everytime you take one out and put back in.

Okay hope that wasn't too detailed.

Excellent info, I appreciate the detailed response. Thanks so much. I'll post up the results in a week or two :cool:

 

[click80]

Caps bennies are of major benefit when rooting in Rapid Rooters also. I am only using the ready mix recipe which is one teaspoon/liter of the root and nute (nute not necessary) pack. I only add in about one teaspoon/liter of Hormex and I am seeing roots pop the side of the rooter in 3-5 days. They are big, furry, healthy ass roots too, not thin and translucent.

Highly recommend using his bennies for cloning, not only for rooting but to give your plant a way more healthy vibrant start. Which does more affectively bring out the positive genetics in any strain. Environment affects gene expression. Big lesson i learned. Healthy mom+Healthy clone+Healthy environment equals healthy plants and in turn healthy yields.

Ooops...just noticed something.... I don't use the hormex until I get roots. I meant to say one teaspoon per liter of Caps root and nute.

Once roots pop I start adding in Hormex at about 1 teaspoon per liter and wean them away from the dome a little each day.

 

[MakinGoo]

I'm gunna need 2 add some of Caps bennies 2 my cuts now.. Great info

 

[WalterWhiteFire]

The tea is also a great way to prevent slime in an EZ cloner.

I use it in mine. Depends on the strain but lots of roots in 3-10 days. Never more than 10.

I use 2 cups in mine and it holds about 5 gallons.

Hey Cap I was wondering about the PH of teas in aero cloners. Normally i would constanly monitor my PH and adjust it with ph down/up always keeping it around 6. Would I or should I still do this with the lemon juice I normally PH my teas with? In this enviroment the tea would almost still be brewing? So should it be reinoculated with fresh tea every few days?

 

[Capulator]

Hey Cap I was wondering about the PH of teas in aero cloners. Normally i would constanly monitor my PH and adjust it with ph down/up always keeping it around 6. Would I or should I still do this with the lemon juice I normally PH my teas with? In this enviroment the tea would almost still be brewing? So should it be reinoculated with fresh tea every few days?

yes you can use some lemon juice. In the ez cloner there is a lot of action so with a food source the bennies will stay abundant. You can replenish with weekly tea to keep all populations up as some will dies off and others will thrive.

 

[OCKushCollector]

Excellent info, I appreciate the detailed response. Thanks so much. I'll post up the results in a week or two :cool:

So, 10 days later, I've grown a mass of roots that are about an inch and a half long out the root riots now from 9 out of 10 cuttings I took. I soaked my root riot cubes in a diluted tea solution I made with Cap's bennies, and sprayed the dome and cuttings the same day with the same solution, and misted the tray with distilled water every day after. Not bad for my first clone attempt huh? Now I have too many rooted clones and have to trash some :confused:

 

[click80]

Excellent man....don't trash 'em. Plant them by some railroad tracks somewhere...lol

My learning curve was a whole lot steeper. Once I learned that the mom's are as important as the cloning method I got it down in no time. So I am guessing you treat your mom's great.

 

[OCKushCollector]

Well I paid hundreds of dollars for the seeds so I can't make it that easy for someone else to come up on it and probably fuck it all up lol.

Yes the moms are stellar. Excellent genetics and an organic regimen including Cap's bennies. Believe it or not the moms were/is my first indoor grow. I'm having some good karma on my side throughout the learning process :)

 

[GR33NL3AF]

A friend of mine just used it in an EZCLONE... We use distilled water, EWC'S, alfalfa, kelp meal, hi-brix mollasses, foilar pack, and root pack bubble for 48 hrs strain and bottle into gallons and use around 1 3/4 cups per gallon in the machine and..... BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!! You're da man Cap!View attachment 228968

If I were to brew a tea, bottle it and place it in the fridge how long would it keep?

Great info on here BTW! Thanks guys

 

[fatginger]

fresh brews work best. Some of the microbes will live in the fridge for roughly a week.

 

[click80]

fresh brews work best. Some of the microbes will live in the fridge for roughly a week.

I have thought about this a couple times. Won't the microbes that are able form endospores? I have read that when microbes sense their enviroment is changing and will not support reproductive activity they form endospores as a survival mechanism. When the environment changes back to good they will wake up and start reproducing again.

Microorganisms sense and adapt to changes in their environment. When favored nutrients are exhausted, some bacteria may become motile to seek out nutrients, or they may produce enzymes to exploit alternative resources. One example of an extreme survival strategy employed by certain low G+C Gram-positive bacteria is the formation of endospores. This complex developmental process is often initiated in response to nutrient deprivation. It allows the bacterium to produce a dormant and highly resistant cell to preserve the cell·s genetic material in times of extreme stress.
Endospores can survive environmental assaults that would normally kill the bacterium. These stresses include high temperature, high UV irradiation, desiccation, chemical damage and enzymatic destruction. The extraordinary resistance properties of endospores make them of particular importance because they are not readily killed by many antimicrobial treatments. A variety of different microorganisms form ·spores· or ·cysts·, but the endospores of low G+C Gram-positive bacteria are by far the most resistant to harsh conditions.

Bacillus Subtilus is one I know of that forms endospores.

 

[GR33NL3AF]

Damn - that's some solid information click...Thanks!

 

[Capulator]

I have thought about this a couple times. Won't the microbes that are able form endospores? I have read that when microbes sense their enviroment is changing and will not support reproductive activity they form endospores as a survival mechanism. When the environment changes back to good they will wake up and start reproducing again.

Microorganisms sense and adapt to changes in their environment. When favored nutrients are exhausted, some bacteria may become motile to seek out nutrients, or they may produce enzymes to exploit alternative resources. One example of an extreme survival strategy employed by certain low G+C Gram-positive bacteria is the formation of endospores. This complex developmental process is often initiated in response to nutrient deprivation. It allows the bacterium to produce a dormant and highly resistant cell to preserve the cell·s genetic material in times of extreme stress.
Endospores can survive environmental assaults that would normally kill the bacterium. These stresses include high temperature, high UV irradiation, desiccation, chemical damage and enzymatic destruction. The extraordinary resistance properties of endospores make them of particular importance because they are not readily killed by many antimicrobial treatments. A variety of different microorganisms form ·spores· or ·cysts·, but the endospores of low G+C Gram-positive bacteria are by far the most resistant to harsh conditions.

Bacillus Subtilus is one I know of that forms endospores.

You are right on the money. Bacteria, even when they come out of stasis, can/will go back in to spore if they do not like what is going on around them. Pretty amazing. Imagine if we could do that.

 

[Seamaiden]

The thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the bacteria/fungi/microbes living through being pushed through a centrifugal pump and the sprayers (aerocloner-type of cloner, otherwise I'm usin' dirt, perlite, whatever media I have on hand). I haven't been able to get anything to clone in my cloner since the first few runs, when I was making WAAAAYYY too many for my liking. Shut it down and it's never been as good since. So I'm thinking that IF the bennies can take all that, then I can fire it up again. Otherwise, it's bennies in media.

 

[click80]

The thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the bacteria/fungi/microbes living through being pushed through a centrifugal pump and the sprayers (aerocloner-type of cloner, otherwise I'm usin' dirt, perlite, whatever media I have on hand). I haven't been able to get anything to clone in my cloner since the first few runs, when I was making WAAAAYYY too many for my liking. Shut it down and it's never been as good since. So I'm thinking that IF the bennies can take all that, then I can fire it up again. Otherwise, it's bennies in media.

I have wondered about that also. I know that they are sensitive to shear and thats why they have special methods to prevent that in laboratories. I think that's why vortex brewers are so much better for tea than bubblers....anyway, if they are sensitive to shear than the forces and stresses in a cloner has to be somewhat harmful. I would think maybe it's the byproducts, such as enzymes that are most beneficial?

Although I think I remember reading on microbeman's site that pumps are not as harmful as you might think. So that leaves the sprayers.

Anyway good point SM.

 

[cannarado]

Bump this up for a second.

Seeing great results with caps root packs in a tea.

Brew a tea of EWC, hi brix, Kelp and caps root packs. pH your water to 5.5 for the rockwool. Add 15-20 ml of the tea per gallon. Soak the cubes in that solution. Dip the cuts in a rooting gel and put in the wool

I put the cubes in a tray that holds each cube seperately with drainage on the bottom. I put a pc of eggcrate on the bottom of a solid tray to keep the drainage tray lifted slightly off of the bottom( i feel this is essential for getting air to the root zone. Plus it lets your roots hang a bit searching for water w/o cooking them on the heat mat)).i put a heat mat under the tray with a dome taped up to keep humidity at 100%(im in CO so i have to use a dome).

I dont even look for roots until after 7 days. The cubes are wet enough to carry them through the first week. Ill slowly vent the dome after a week to acclimate the cuts to a drier climate. Ive found that if i dont do this slowly i get a severe amount of yellowing if not total loss of cuts from them drying up. You will notice the shape of the cuts degrading mere minutes after taking off the dome if you dont acclimate them.

After the first 7 days the cubes will start to dry slightly. ill brew another tea and dip the entire drainage tray holding the cubes for a second or two. For this ill just throw some water with the tea in a seperate tray and then dump the tray after the dunk Then ill put the drainage tray back into the tray with the egg crate. This gives them enough water but doesnt over soak them. Plus remember you have the drainage tray slightly elevated off the bottom so they can drip dry and air out slightly.

After week one and a second watering ill lift up the drainage tray and start looking for roots daily or twice daily. Youll see them poking out through the drainage holes. Once i see some starting to root is when i start to acclimate the cuts to drier climate. I also will start putting rooted cuts into soil and back under a vented dome for the first few days. This keeps less stress on the plants when transitioning over to a growing veg plant.

Here is a pic of my latest run of cuts. These are 11 days in with minimal yelowing or wilting. I just took off the dome in this pic but had been venting them for a few days prior.

This is a pretty simple KISS technique. I used to use water cloners all the time but im getting way better %'s with this method(and its cheap).

Thanks Cap!

 

[BudGoggles]

Day 10 since cutting 100%
Clonex, hormex, aquashield and tea first week. Once they showed roots at day 8 switched em to dynagrow bloom, aquashield and tea and there loving it

 

[Seamaiden]

Feck it, I'm adding some of Cap's root pack bennies. I'm using an aerocloner, so it'll be interesting to see what happens. The mix includes some Sea90 (@<220ppm .5 conversion).