Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

Myco · May 27, 2015

I'm glad this thread popped back up - I didn't know someone finally had confirmed stem nematodes via lab test - that puts an end to that argument. Thanks for sharing that @true grit as well as your bit of info/experience.

I ended up with some full duds on my run before last... recycled all soil as I normally do... just finished off another run in that same soil - no duds, and was blasting everything with chitosan, OG BioWar Root and Foliar pack. The run was basically fine, seemed a bit off but no duds; that's the important part.

But I'm worried to fuck the duddery could've spread through my recycled soil, into some of my genetics and I've just kept the shit at bay. But stopped recycling soil for the time being - I figure it's not worth the risk.

Anyone that's dealt with duds/stem nematodes feel free to share your experience as to how you've kept healthy plants... gotta be proactive.

Chrondondalae · May 27, 2015

Qbanbiz said:
After cleansing a few times with OXIDATE, we re-inoculate with beneficials. This RUN we are using OG (OLD SCHOOL GROWERS) VEGANIC SPECIAL SAUCE.

Good to know, thanks!. I just ordered a 5 gallon. I've been running H2O2 in the rez and it's been helping but I'm ready to start using some Biowar again. Been soaking our cuttings in H2O2 and aspirin prior to cubes and thats been very effective! We are trying to regenerate out of this shit by constantly taking new and healthy clones.

Don't sleep on this shit peeps! If you see it do something quick and be proactive. My arrogance as a grower has bit me in the ass with these symptoms. Thought it was no big and had a weird plant here and there. This shit will ruin people, it's not to be taken lightly be it fusarium, nematodes or both!!!

Herb Forester · May 27, 2015

@Chrondondalae how strong is your h2o2 and aspirin dunk?

Chrondondalae · May 27, 2015

Oh, and I believe our issues came from a shitty batch of Botanicare Slacker!!! I've got 2 pallets of it just sitiing if anyone wants it lol. Also, I don't take clones in and we have been seed only for two years now on new genetics.

Chrondondalae · May 27, 2015

Herb Forester said:
@Chrondondalae how strong is your h2o2 and aspirin dunk?

3ml per gallon of 29% h2o2 and 325 mg of aspirin per gallon. They love it. I have some chitosan now so we'll be trying that instead of aspirin.

Myco · May 27, 2015

Chrondondalae said:
3ml per gallon of 29% h2o2 and 325 mg of aspirin per gallon. They love it. I have some chitosan now so we'll be trying that instead of aspirin.

Feel free to combine your chito and aspirin... there's some info I've read (and possibly posted in this thread a couple pages back) about the benefits of chitosan and salicylic acid working together...

Good luck.

true grit · May 28, 2015

I'll quit bullshitting...most common solution for most is the 325mg non coated aspirin per gallon. Simply it's salicin which boosts plant immune systems. Other than that chitins (crab meal/shrimp meal) can be added to mixes or to teas and watered in. Along with stuff like caps tea (root nematocides) most can be kept at bay. It's strain specific, so OG's/chems/glue/dub etc are more prone.

If you have a bed that has fully dudded, toss it and and contAiners. If it's just a branch or two In a bed, follow reg and most will be fine.

Bangarang · Jun 12, 2015

What is the best way to clean/treat cuttings? Dip in oxidate? Dip in chitosan? Then cloning solution. Or pre-soak your rockwool in one and use the other as a dip?

Qbanbiz · Jun 15, 2015

Bangarang said:
What is the best way to clean/treat cuttings? Dip in oxidate? Dip in chitosan? Then cloning solution. Or pre-soak your rockwool in one and use the other as a dip?

Hey @Bangarang
At the time we are experimenting with oxidate. We take our cuttings, soak them in water until we clean them up. Once the leaves are cut and they are cut to size we dip in oxidate for 45 seconds. The instructions say to soak cuttings in 6oz of oxidate per gallon of water. The rep recommended 2 oz per gallon of water. We have tried 2-6 oz per gallon finding 2 oz/gallon to be good. They recommend dipping cuttings for less than 1 minute so we dip for 30-45 seconds. We then bunch up the clones and soak the stems only (like flowers in a vase) in ZONE and SUB DUE. Zone at 1.5ml per gallon of water mixed w .3ml of Sub due fungicide. We soak them for 2-4 hours. Dip in Clonex gel. WE use rock wool soaked in Clonex cloning solution. The yellow liquid in the black bottle. I wouldn't soak rockwool in oxidate. Once they root we treat with aspirin.

Qbanbiz · Jun 18, 2015

Correction: Oxidate dilution rate for dipping clones is 2 to 6 oz per 5 gallons of water. 2 oz per 5 gallons of water seems to be good.

HiPlainDrftr · Jul 27, 2015

I've been hanging on to a Bruce Banner cut in a dudded condition for about a year now. She's been hard to clone, but I've kept her going. I though at first that I could clone her back to health, by cloning, vegging and cloning of the healthiest new growth. But after 8-9 times it seems to be getting me nowhere.
So in a last ditch effort to save the cut, I took two clones, reversed one, and flowered them both. I got about 16 viable beans from this... as they were pretty small and unhealthy plants.

Has anyone else tried this?

I'm trying to see if this condition is due to a recessive gene, as mentioned earlier in this thread.
Or... If these beans turn out to be undudded healthy plants, I guess it would tell us it is an enviromental or pest/disease condition.

Popping the beans today, I'll check back when the results are in.

mr roboto · Jul 28, 2015

HiPlainDrftr said:
I've been hanging on to a Bruce Banner cut in a dudded condition for about a year now. She's been hard to clone, but I've kept her going. I though at first that I could clone her back to health, by cloning, vegging and cloning of the healthiest new growth. But after 8-9 times it seems to be getting me nowhere.
So in a last ditch effort to save the cut, I took two clones, reversed one, and flowered them both. I got about 16 viable beans from this... as they were pretty small and unhealthy plants.

Has anyone else tried this?

I'm trying to see if this condition is due to a recessive gene, as mentioned earlier in this thread.
Or... If these beans turn out to be undudded healthy plants, I guess it would tell us it is an enviromental or pest/disease condition.View attachment 525595

Popping the beans today, I'll check back when the results are in.

I think the virus is transferred to the seed also

HiPlainDrftr · Jul 30, 2015

I guess we're about to find out....

5/6 in 2 days ain't bad. Better than I though for such puny little seeds...

HiPlainDrftr · Aug 20, 2015

4/5 of the sprouts made it. I don't want to jump to conclusions just yet. But so far the S1s are looking healthy and strong. Nothing like the runted parents.

We Solidarity · Oct 5, 2015

Hey guys-

I know there have been lots of established theories about nematodes being the cause of the dudding, I have very strong reason to suspect that the stunting is viral, and is transmitted by root aphids. I have been to a lab three times with tissue samples of infected plants and have yet to see a single nematode (even with the help of mycologists and soil biologists) after hours of lab time. I know there are samples that people have seen nematodes on, but at least two of those samples came from outdoor plants, where it is far more likely to encounter nematodes.

After working with an old friend working in a food science program at a major university, I have identified the species of aphid that attacks cannabis (Rhopalosiphum rufiabdominale - the red rice root aphid...originally I had thought the species was Rhopalosiphum padi - the bird cherry oat aphid, but the red rice aphid fits the bill 100% anatomically and behaviorally), and discovered that it is a major vector for a disease called "barley yellow dwarf virus" which affects cereal crops worldwide.

BYDV is known to hibernate in many different types of grains and grasses, but, just like the rice root aphid, is not known to infect crops outside of the Poaceae family, until now. Because of how drastic the implications of this could be, I'm going to be getting some help from leaders in this field, as well as help from a specialized lab that deals exclusively with plant viruses. I've been chasing this problem extensively for nearly 3 years now, the general consensus of every professional I've worked with has been that this is a hormonal collapse or a viral infection; we'll know the answer soon.

Chrondondalae · Oct 5, 2015

We Solidarity said:
Hey guys-

I know there have been lots of established theories about nematodes being the cause of the dudding, I have very strong reason to suspect that the stunting is viral, and is transmitted by root aphids. I have been to a lab three times with tissue samples of infected plants and have yet to see a single nematode (even with the help of mycologists and soil biologists) after hours of lab time. I know there are samples that people have seen nematodes on, but at least two of those samples came from outdoor plants, where it is far more likely to encounter nematodes.

After working with an old friend working in a food science program at a major university, I have identified the species of aphid that attacks cannabis (Rhopalosiphum rufiabdominale - the red rice root aphid...originally I had thought the species was Rhopalosiphum padi - the bird cherry oat aphid, but the red rice aphid fits the bill 100% anatomically and behaviorally), and discovered that it is a major vector for a disease called "barley yellow dwarf virus" which affects cereal crops worldwide.

BYDV is known to hibernate in many different types of grains and grasses, but, just like the rice root aphid, is not known to infect crops outside of the Poaceae family, until now. Because of how drastic the implications of this could be, I'm going to be getting some help from leaders in this field, as well as help from a specialized lab that deals exclusively with plant viruses. I've been chasing this problem extensively for nearly 3 years now, the general consensus of every professional I've worked with has been that this is a hormonal collapse or a viral infection; we'll know the answer soon.

We are convinced it's viral. We have some strains it barely effects, others are seriously plagued by it. We have pretty much tossed all of the strains that have not come out of it. All except my prized wifi #3, I'm just not ready to let go yet, but she has been effected the most. Thanks for the update!

Herb Forester · Oct 6, 2015

I know it's been discussed earlier in the thread, but a question mainly for @We Solidarity and @Chrondondalae: do you experience symptoms on individual branches of otherwise healthy plants, or is the entire plant always involved? Thanks.

We Solidarity · Oct 6, 2015

Herb Forester said:
I know it's been discussed earlier in the thread, but a question mainly for @We Solidarity and @Chrondondalae: do you experience symptoms on individual branches of otherwise healthy plants, or is the entire plant always involved? Thanks.

Both. I always pick the two healthiest plants to be mothers, after about 4 months or so they will develop dud branches if the strain is susceptible. I believe all strains can be affected, I've seen a very diverse range of genetics be affected. The virus can stay dormant in a host for years, I'm thinking these aphids have been transmitting the virus to cannabis for years, and the virus has just started evolving to attack this species within the last few years.

Seamaiden · Oct 6, 2015

We Solidarity said:
Hey guys-

I know there have been lots of established theories about nematodes being the cause of the dudding, I have very strong reason to suspect that the stunting is viral, and is transmitted by root aphids. I have been to a lab three times with tissue samples of infected plants and have yet to see a single nematode (even with the help of mycologists and soil biologists) after hours of lab time. I know there are samples that people have seen nematodes on, but at least two of those samples came from outdoor plants, where it is far more likely to encounter nematodes.

After working with an old friend working in a food science program at a major university, I have identified the species of aphid that attacks cannabis (Rhopalosiphum rufiabdominale - the red rice root aphid...originally I had thought the species was Rhopalosiphum padi - the bird cherry oat aphid, but the red rice aphid fits the bill 100% anatomically and behaviorally), and discovered that it is a major vector for a disease called "barley yellow dwarf virus" which affects cereal crops worldwide.

BYDV is known to hibernate in many different types of grains and grasses, but, just like the rice root aphid, is not known to infect crops outside of the Poaceae family, until now. Because of how drastic the implications of this could be, I'm going to be getting some help from leaders in this field, as well as help from a specialized lab that deals exclusively with plant viruses. I've been chasing this problem extensively for nearly 3 years now, the general consensus of every professional I've worked with has been that this is a hormonal collapse or a viral infection; we'll know the answer soon.

Due to the size of this thread, I kind of feel like this post deserves a thread of its own. That, or I can put edit the very first post to add this to it.

You may recall lilmisslone, who some years ago had an issue with root aphids that led to what she and her husband determined was barley yellow dwarf virus in their rooms. I still feel badly for telling her she had bugs in her eyes, and I did indeed learn my lesson!

We Solidarity · Oct 6, 2015

Here's a phenomenal study out of California that links rice root aphids to a new crop (celery) and shows how they affected plants, as well as effective treatments:

http://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=18740

Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

Myco

Chrondondalae

Herb Forester

Chrondondalae

Chrondondalae

Myco

true grit

Bangarang

Qbanbiz

Qbanbiz

HiPlainDrftr

mr roboto

HiPlainDrftr

HiPlainDrftr

We Solidarity

Chrondondalae

Herb Forester

We Solidarity

Seamaiden

Living dead girl

We Solidarity

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