Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

  • Thread starter We Solidarity
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papapayne

papapayne

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Hey @AlphaPhase

Is it correct that you got different sets of cuts? as in - one cut came in feb and the other set of cuts were picked up a few months later? As in different potential sources Sounds very much like maybe they got a crappy s1 batch in, or just crappy clones in general.

Or am I misunderstanding, and your mother produced 2 different sets of clone vigor?

IMO GG#4 hasn't even been around long enough for anyone to be able to say, "GG#4 is especially sustainable to the dud virus." (which my professional botany teacher with a PHD has never heard off) In strain age, GG#4 is pretty new, so don't think anyone really has ran it long enough to say its GG#4 over strains that have floated around for decades.

just my 2 cents
 
papapayne

papapayne

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That said - only strong healthy plants should be flowered. When you take clones, use rubbing alcohol to sterilize razor between clippings.

If GG#4 isn't working for you, by all means, ditch it. All I can say, I have the cut off GG#4 off you, so if it had a virus I would imagine it would be manifesting for me as well. Its still very vigourous, grows nicely, stanky as fuck in veg and bloom, coats herself in resin, and makes dank chocolate chemy nugs. one of my current daily fav smokes.
 
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AlphaPhase

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Hey @AlphaPhase

Is it correct that you got different sets of cuts? as in - one cut came in feb and the other set of cuts were picked up a few months later? As in different potential sources Sounds very much like maybe they got a crappy s1 batch in, or just crappy clones in general.

Or am I misunderstanding, and your mother produced 2 different sets of clone vigor?

IMO GG#4 hasn't even been around long enough for anyone to be able to say, "GG#4 is especially sustainable to the dud virus." (which my professional botany teacher with a PHD has never heard off) In strain age, GG#4 is pretty new, so don't think anyone really has ran it long enough to say its GG#4 over strains that have floated around for decades.

just my 2 cents
Same mama plant, just much different results. After the first couple successful runs of the glue, things started to get really wierd. Still to this month, my friend is throwing out rooms of glue, some grow normal, some 100% dud, same clone, new mama's, old mama's, tried everything pretty much and the only thing we could come up with is growing a extremely healthy clone into a healthy mama, cutting just the very top shoots for clones, then throwing it away immediately. The dud has actually spread to a couple other strains now, my sour power OG x Chemdog 91 caught it, and what I just harvested isn't even close to what the spog91 I'm about to harvest looks/smells like. It's by far the wierdest shit ever, I have one last batch I'm harvesting in 2 weeks and other than the messed up structure of it and one dud branch, the buds are normal. I've personally only had 1 really bad dud grow with the glue, and I was told the cuts came from the bottom of a mama plant, it resulted in 50% duds, it's the same cut that you have, so I can only guess that keeping a glue plant going in organic soils which will boost the immune system keeps the virus or whatever it is at bay. I started using bennies in my hydro grows and even though the plant looked different, no duds. My friend doesn't use bennies and grows in dirt or coco with synthetic nutes and he's had a hell of a time with the plant. Some grows all good some 100% go in the garbage, no real rhyme or reason other than only taking top cuts and praying for the best
 
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AlphaPhase

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Oh and with that said, I ended up bringing the glue back to healthy at one point and saved it for me and my friend because he ended up throwing everything out a while back, it was back to the healthy vigorous glue at one point, then it went back down hill, then since taking only top cuts, things have been much better. But throwing out 5' tall monster mama's with 300 cuts on them after only taking like 100 cuts, it sucks. Just precautions now, I'm done for a while with it though but Aero can't stop growing it, it's something he just can't give up and he has much more issues with it than me lol. I guess I've been rather lucky in not losing a crop (bennies?) I dunno lol
 
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AlphaPhase

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Oh, and no doubt, the buds are still straight fire, no issue there for me, yields are good I guess, I just know if it was back to the way it was when I first got it the yield would be much better, I can't get over 1.6-1.7lb a light and I should be getting 2, it's something wierd in it I wish I knew more
 
CannaTech

CannaTech

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I would like to be clear and say,

None of you, at all, with exception to We Solidarity have any sort of supporting evidence that your plants were effected by TMV.

If you have a sick plant and for some reason suspect that its a virus, then go get your plant tested.

You are doing nothing more than wasting your own time trying to fight the rainbow plague (something that does not exist.)

Also, if it is TMV, then go do some research. TMV is treated with aspirin in a foliar spray.
From what I have read the application rate is 81grams per two gallons of H20 with a small amount of dish soap mixed in as well.

If you think you have TMV then treat for it and move on.

Everything that I have seen in this thread form Alpha and others is not TMV.

its clearly a nute related issue or a lazy farmer issue.

@alpha do you own a chiller? what are water temps of your flood and drain? When was the last time you cleaned everything with bleach? or H2o2?

There is too much in this thread and its getting outta control. If you think you have TMV then treat for it and move on.
Another TMV Thread with some more info is here: https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/tobacco-mosaic-virus.52836/

Stop digging up old threads to post your nonsense on. Read the thread in detail and then if you have questions, reference it in your own thread in a detailed manor.
@Seamaiden You could not be more right.
 
hermit186

hermit186

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I have white widow that have come out with some very strange looking leaves but the only dud that matches some of the pictures and come out with a bunch of little leaves was a Medusa and a aroura Indica sorry about spelling and I couldn't believe how many leaves came out in that little space. I did once use clonex and a power at the same time and it caused some leaf problems and both of those plants were in that group at the same time. I have had no mites and only an imported clone had power mildew. I have seen this only two or three times and they were clones not from seed.
I believe is stress + genes, the potential is in the strain and stress pushes it over to dud. I will take pictures of the next one. I also think it is something like white widow some come out with irregular leaf numbers and the plant stretches out more than normal. Then some come out with the normal amount and structure. I think its there and heat or cutting clones off or some mistake bring stress to that point but, in time someone will figure it out
 
Myco

Myco

718
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Hey @AlphaPhase
IMO GG#4 hasn't even been around long enough for anyone to be able to say, "GG#4 is especially sustainable to the dud virus." (which my professional botany teacher with a PHD has never heard off) In strain age, GG#4 is pretty new, so don't think anyone really has ran it long enough to say its GG#4 over strains that have floated around for decades.

just my 2 cents
GG#4 has been around for over 4 years now, probably in the hands of thousands of growers by this point and has become a popular commercial type strain. It's probably been grown just as much as some cuts that have been around for much longer. That being said, it clearly has been more susceptible to the "dud" phenomena than other genetics, in my own experience and otherwise.

And your professional botany teacher with a PhD hasn't heard of dudding eh? Did you literally ask him if he'd heard of "dudding"? Because unless he's a cannabis grower that keeps up with the trends, I highly doubt he's heard that term haha.
 
papapayne

papapayne

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GG#4 has been around for over 4 years now, probably in the hands of thousands of growers by this point and has become a popular commercial type strain. It's probably been grown just as much as some cuts that have been around for much longer. That being said, it clearly has been more susceptible to the "dud" phenomena than other genetics, in my own experience and otherwise.

And your professional botany teacher with a PhD hasn't heard of dudding eh? Did you literally ask him if he'd heard of "dudding"? Because unless he's a cannabis grower that keeps up with the trends, I highly doubt he's heard that term haha.


Guess we shall have to agree to disagree.
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

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Dudding = multiple viruses.

Professor knows viruses, just not pot head talk about duds.

When GG#4 first started getting popular, one of the main sources for the cuts went to a cup and handed out thousands of cuts. This was relatively early in the GG#4 life, and because of this, most who received her got the cut with duding features. JW the creator has also had dudding issues, along with Hammerhead. They will deny this to the end of time however, and Hammerhead continues to make seeds from these dudded genetics. This is how GG#4 became unfit for my garden, will never let that vector around my plants.
 
hermit186

hermit186

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When I was a young kid black holes were declared a physical impossibility by the PHD's. There answer was the math doesn't work for them it's not possible because science says so. Well guess what a PHD is a piece of paper you can get mail order. I no many growers and a very few breeders and most didn't waist there time getting PHD's. I no several army command level officers that have PHD's is why we now have a army full of thinkers instead of warriors. The Proof that PHD's require to make it a fact is that we haven't won a single war from that time the thinking army is waist of time and money.
 
Myco

Myco

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Dudding = multiple viruses.

Professor knows viruses, just not pot head talk about duds.

When GG#4 first started getting popular, one of the main sources for the cuts went to a cup and handed out thousands of cuts. This was relatively early in the GG#4 life, and because of this, most who received her got the cut with duding features. JW the creator has also had dudding issues, along with Hammerhead. They will deny this to the end of time however, and Hammerhead continues to make seeds from these dudded genetics. This is how GG#4 became unfit for my garden, will never let that vector around my plants.
Yes, I was around for watching that whole debacle at ICM. And IIRC, JW and Hammerhead went out of their way to give many of those people new cuts. Probably not all of them, but I think you might be wrong in that it was "thousands". And I don't think JW denies he's had dudding issues, I don't know about Hammerhead.

But my cut came from one of the first people that had it, of which has never had his show any dudding symptoms. I gave the cut out to several friends, of whom have never had theirs show dudding symptoms, while others have. GG#4 wasn't the first strain I recall seeing the problem in, and IIRC I believe I brought it into my garden with a Fire OG clone - and then ultimately started seeing the symptoms. I don't know if you're implying that GG#4 is the original vector? It very well could be, but that's not how it went down for me.
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

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Great points. Also, thanks for the many corrections. Thousands was an overstatement, however those ten, or hundreds of cuts turned into thousands over time no doubt. I spoke about JW when I shouldn't have, I don't really know what he is all about. Now hammerhead on the other side.........well......lets move on.

As far as what point I was making.....GG#4 has a high amount of dudding issues due to the fact that the original stock most likely had these viruses, and therefore a % of every offspring does as well.

I am sure you know that taking a cut from a vigorous plant can have zero dudding issues. However, from the same mom, you can take a clone that does. I gotta run, hope this makes sense.
 
Myco

Myco

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Indeed @Bulldog11 - one thing to note is that some of the earliest mentions of "dudding" start with Sour Dub, which is of course one of the lesbian mothers of GG#4. I don't really know JW, but followed along this journey at ICM.

JW himself even stopped running Sour Dub IIRC because of the dudding issues. Is this what was handed down to GG#4, and ulimately has become more widespread with the blowing up of GG#4? Possible.

And I agree. Once I accepted that there was an obvious problem in my garden, one of the most important things has been taking healthy cuts from the healthiest plants, and culling the questionables. But like you said, the virus, or whatever it is, can rear it's ugly head in clones that were taken from plants showing zero signs.

Long story short, I haven't become any closer to understanding this problem - all I know: it's a fucking problem.
 
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Freakshow

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I have discovered that my problem is this: I received a few clones 3 years ago that were infected with Broadmites. They can't be seen with the regular Radio shack 60-100X scope. The symptoms look like a whole slew of nutrient deficiencies. You'll get one or 2 decent runs then the plants will stunt and dud. i just did a total clean out and started new genetics.
 
Myco

Myco

718
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I have discovered that my problem is this: I received a few clones 3 years ago that were infected with Broadmites. They can't be seen with the regular Radio shack 60-100X scope. The symptoms look like a whole slew of nutrient deficiencies. You'll get one or 2 decent runs then the plants will stunt and dud. i just did a total clean out and started new genetics.
I can spot BM's with a quality loupe, easily discernible with a 60-100x. Maybe my eyes are just like superman vision, I don't know.

How did you identify them if you couldn't see them with a 60-100x scope?
 
Myco

Myco

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I guess it's moot now if he trashed his genetics, I was just mentioning that under the question that he properly diagnosed BM's. Is the Radio Shack scope not really 60x-100x? I don't know what magnification the regular ol' jewelers' loupe I use is, but it's nothing extreme and I can see the little bastards with that. Eggs are harder to see because they don't move - 100x USB scope is the only thing I can see those with.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
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They are, but the ones I got (Radio Shack loupes/scopes) are shitty plastic, you can't even use the whole viewing field, it's too fuzzy. At last the ones I got are like that. Once I got an actual jeweler's loupe I could really see the difference.
 
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