true grit
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I keep moms in a 50/50 ffof and coco mix...i see it on the moms, the ones in soil usually only have one or two lower branches dud out, anything in coco duds out 100% when it does it.
Found a lab that will do testing. Going to test for the following:
Pythium
TMV
BYDV (which I believe we are seeing - transmitted only by aphids, which are the only pest I have. Couldn't have been BM contamination since I've never had them and isn't pythium because even if the plant is runted the roots can looks absolutely amazing. Hoping to get a pic today showing that. Plus any runted plants automatically become aphid bait)
Also testing for a few systemic strains of fungi to see if anything in the amendments (humisoil, caps bennies, EWC) could be causing negative effects from over-application.
this thread really blew up sorry I haven't been participating as much as I would like. Now that we've got some diagnoses down...has anyone been able to bring plants out of this?
That was the virus lilmisslone says took out their grow all those years ago. Remember that? It's pretty much a permanent thing IIRC her saying, they had to trash everything. They believe it was vectored initially by root aphids, but I've read that all these viruses are easily vectored by many different pests, including animals like fungus gnats.Hmm, interesting on the BYDV. How long does that stay in the plant? because I haven't had aphids in some time and none in the veg duds, and not the moms they came from as far as I know.
Def keep us posted.
Like most viruses it would stay with the genetic indefinitely...my lab source said there are dna-protecting proteins that plants produce that combat viral attacks...you can apply them to the plant as prevention but no cure.Hmm, interesting on the BYDV. How long does that stay in the plant? because I haven't had aphids in some time and none in the veg duds, and not the moms they came from as far as I know.
Def keep us posted.
Here are some blue dream dud comparisons. Keep in mind this is the same strain same environment same veg time same everything. The first pic is just an over all size comparison the ones closest are the duds. The next two are the difference in thc production and the last two is the more horizontal growth compared with the good vertical growth. The duds also just smell like plant.
That was the virus lilmisslone says took out their grow all those years ago. Remember that? It's pretty much a permanent thing IIRC her saying, they had to trash everything. They believe it was vectored initially by root aphids, but I've read that all these viruses are easily vectored by many different pests, including animals like fungus gnats.
Well the smaller compared to the bigger are def dud plants as far as I'm concerned. Did you see the difference in thc between the first bud shot and the second? No smell to the small ones, and very slow weird growth. Also look at the difference in the hair color between the two, the small ones are all red looking. Once they get that way they never come back. Does anyone have some pics of what you are talking about?If you are saying those are duds- they are not duds, or at least not what we are referring to. That may be another problem but duds have absolutely zero trichome production. Generally they are same size as normal or bigger- just no trich, thc, smell...nothin. Look like big fluffy red haired ditch weed with no crystal content at all. If you got white on your buds- they aren't duds. Probably a good thing, but doesn't help with the inconsistent growth problems you may be having.
Wheres @delae632 ? Maybe he can post his GSC dud pic- it will show pretty clearly what a dud is vs a plant that isn't performing correctly
I'll dig up some solid dud pics.:)
Interesting talk about lowers only, have you noticed this on any veg plants? Ive noticed with this face-off that a couple of the clones looked like they were starting to dud with first few lowers then went back to normal upward growth and leaves...waiting to clone those tops. And it wasn't until they got some roots and weren't sitting in a damp beer cup that the growth changed. Funny how once we all start talking, ya start noticing similarities you should have already. lol.
@We Solidarity the problem with this is the mother having produce solid cuts and duds, would have to have the similar systems of this virus and if she remains healthy why the cuts don't leads me to believe more of a root disease whether it not be Pythium , maybe another root disease issue.. I've had a look at the duds I just got and yes u do see white roots but the development isn't even close to were it should be... And the plants that have dud'd in only a few lower branches has a weak root development aswell .. I for no means have a certainty of what this is but points to Pythium or a form of it..Like most viruses it would stay with the genetic indefinitely...my lab source said there are dna-protecting proteins that plants produce that combat viral attacks...you can apply them to the plant as prevention but no cure.
Sorry man, no ph issues here. It gets checked daily at 5.8. I have been dealing with TMV for a Long time and have lab results to show that's what it is. Been doing this for a lot of years and never had the twisting or other issues like now. The mosaic pattern leaves have only shown on a couple strains. It dosn't happen to all. This I why there is so much mis information, out there people think they know what causes every issue when they haven't even dealt with some things. The virus also makes plants look like they have mag def nute burn and many other symptoms, but all comes back to the virus.@true grit I've noticed that a few do this and they still bounce back, my guess the Pythium wasn't able to over come the stronger cuts, although still causing issues with the lower branch work the newer tops come out fine as the clone fights the disease.. I've had clones bounce back after sometime..
It has to be an issue while cloning- contaminated tools, trays, excess of water, and weaker cuts.. I've been trying to do a couple things to fight it, I've used h2o2 in the feed which seems to work, I've used bennies which seems to help them but not quite, and a product called wilt guard / regen a root..
Reason why my guess is Pythium and not tmv is that the tobacco mosaic virus displays distinct symptoms, ie. mosaic patterns, and /or a hooking of the leaf tip.. All the pictures above seem to have had issues with ph causing them to twist...
sounds to be we have some consistencyI do not believe it is viral.
some notes........
- Was using clonex brand clone gel
- Could be infection via inconsistent/unclean cloning practices
- Plants seem to be able to grow out of it
- Seems like its a coco related/induced problem or plants are at least more susceptible in coco medium
- Duds first showed on dubtech, o dub a dub etc in socal and prob has since spread
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