Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

[EveryOneSmokes]

There aren't many published studies with B. firmus in relation to D Dipsaci, The few that pop up are studies performed in an in vitro setting.
The above quotes you copy and pasted on post #434 were taken from the same book whatthe215 just provided a link to. Interrelationships Between Microbial Antagonists Having Divergent Modes-of-action...
By Alexander Rafael Mendoza Luna

The link @SpiderKid provided Biocontrol Science and Technology The study was also done an in vitro setting, it also says " In general, juveniles of D. dipsaci were less affected by B. firmus culture filtrates than the other tested nematodes (Table 3)."
You gotta remember the primary disadvantages of in vitro studies is it can be challenging to extend the application/result from an in vitro setting back to the intact plant/biology.. Most people that will use these products aren't doing tissue cultures. So there must be a reason why products like Poncho-Votivo & Nortica WP did not include D. dipsaci in their list of target pests.

While studies show it was helpful to a degree but Its a little far fetched to say B Firmus will get rid of D. dispcaci, from the tad bit of info you provided. The studies showed it was far more effective for R. similis (Burrowing Nematode) & M, Incognita (Root-knot-nematodes) in vitro. This could be a costly investment if someone was to buy Nortica WP based on your post and later find out it doesn't work, so its best to be 100% sure it does work by providing more supporting field evidence or personal experience...

Thanks for the info bro, it shows you really care about this issue or issues to clarify misleading or misinterpreted information..
Much respect bro, keep me in the loop once u hear back..

Yet I still have concerns about nematodes being the the sole reason behind dud'ing... This would imply that a dud'd plant being grown in medium that will be recycled would harbor nematodes and later infect any other plant later transplanted in the medium, and this is what has me very confused because my current run is healthy with no signs of dud'ing... But I hear more people are seeing signs of nematodes in there duds

@whatthe215 I have those trunks ready, let's see what we got..

 

[toquer]

It looks like AVID plus B. Firmus, rotated on fresh cut clones should fix the problem. I checked a couple plants for about an hour, I have not seen any nematodes yet.

I don't think i ever had a problem when using Avid but since I stopped using the avid, floramite, and forbid routine I've seen a few more dud. Maybe I'll treat clones still at transplant.

 

[Ladyv]

Yet I still have concerns about nematodes being the the sole reason behind dud'ing... This would imply that a dud'd plant being grown in medium that will be recycled would harbor nematodes and later infect any other plant later transplanted in the medium, and this is what has me very confused because my current run is healthy with no signs of dud'ing... But I hear more people are seeing signs of nematodes in there duds

@whatthe215 I have those trunks ready, let's see what we got..

And FWIW I'll chime in here, my recent dud-free run was in media that has been reused through my past 3 runs and the 2 prior runs both had 10-15% duds.

 

[nightmarecreature]

There aren't many published studies with B. firmus in relation to D Dipsaci, The few that pop up are studies performed in an in vitro setting.
The above quotes you copy and pasted on post #434 were taken from the same book whatthe215 just provided a link to. Interrelationships Between Microbial Antagonists Having Divergent Modes-of-action...
By Alexander Rafael Mendoza Luna

The link @SpiderKid provided Biocontrol Science and Technology The study was also done an in vitro setting, it also says " In general, juveniles of D. dipsaci were less affected by B. firmus culture filtrates than the other tested nematodes (Table 3)."
You gotta remember the primary disadvantages of in vitro studies is it can be challenging to extend the application/result from an in vitro setting back to the intact plant/biology.. Most people that will use these products aren't doing tissue cultures. So there must be a reason why products like Poncho-Votivo & Nortica WP did not include D. dipsaci in their list of target pests.

While studies show it was helpful to a degree but Its a little far fetched to say B Firmus will get rid of D. dispcaci, from the tad bit of info you provided. The studies showed it was far more effective for R. similis (Burrowing Nematode) & M, Incognita (Root-knot-nematodes) in vitro. This could be a costly investment if someone was to buy Nortica WP based on your post and later find out it doesn't work, so its best to be 100% sure it does work by providing more supporting field evidence or personal experience...

None of these also state they are for Cannabis. I also mentioned several chemicals that will work. Abemectin used on garlic, 90% of them were D. dipsaci free. Many people have AVID around. This nematode is nothing special, it's been around along time and it has been dealt with before. I've had everyone I know check their plants, out of many people, I know one infected. I'm also no longer researching D. dipsaci because I'm not infected. I also closed my garden down to receiving new cuts, there's always something nasty being passed around.

 

[drfarm]

Im still reading at post 195 area so forgive if this has been covered. Just my thoughts atm as i suffer with these conditions also. Assuming, as i think we do, this is a pathogen, probably viral, Monstermash mentioned the use of aspirin. Some weeks back i read a oregon university researcher discussing ACT teas and use of tree barks (unnamed and research ongoing) to boost plant pathogen resistance. She cites only peer reviewed which is important to me. When Monster says aspirin, i immediately think willow bark so will try this with tea formulas. I do believe there is support for this in research, but here too ive found a caution with how much to use.(aspirin or willow either) 9th paragraph in this article, , so anyone doing this needs to adjust admendment upward with an eye on growth. Will also be trying this in my cloner solution since for me it seems most obvious a problem starting there.
Great thread, lots of great observations here. Thanks everyone and i will catch up in the thread if i post again :-)

 

[drfarm]

Oh and sorry one more observation. A seedrun from last year (gooeybreeder x sour diesel) turned lots of excess seed. Buds went in bho extractor with some? seed left. A half grocery sack after extract was thrown out, where in excess of 100 plants snow germinated, these being the most healthy and beautiful plants you could find. Ive culled them down to about 20 select. they are flowerin now without water nutes etc, on their own survival all summer in western colorado, an essentialy dr, but not completely dry very steep slope. I cant belive them, they are not huge, but very healthy. Everyone loves and photo ops them. Sooo long story to say maybe butane or propane is an effective safe seed wash also, but this was no germination test since i have no clue how many seeds went down the hill or if any virals were even present on them at all. That it, shutting up now.. ))

 

[budfarmer]

I have the same problem with what I believe is fusarium, it does not look like there is anything to kill this out right so I'm thinking about trying to manage this with RootShield Plus. I should be able to use RootShield to protect anything new to the farm from infection while the older stuff is grown out with the aid of RootShield Plus and eliminated mostly by smoking. The Tabaco and Tomato farmers apparently use a 15 minute wash with 10% TSP followed by a 5 minute wash in 10% bleach of new seed. I did try the 15 minute wash in TSP but didn't feel lucky enough to do the 10% bleach wash so I didn't push my luck, so far so good I had a good germ rate and now have 1.5'' seedlings. I got desperate at 1 point and planted about a dozen sickly clones I thought would die into #4 sunshine mix along with gypsum ( ground up chunk of damaged drywall from my garage wall ) and composted animal manure to my supprise over a period of time pushed off to the side in my green house and shaded out by all the big plants they turned around and became healthy plants but still seemed to be slow growing. Yes the first 2'' of stock when split length wise has some skid marks on some plants but most of the brown out rot at least on these clones is around soil level internally on the stock.

 

[Capulator]

I have the same problem with what I believe is fusarium, it does not look like there is anything to kill this out right so I'm thinking about trying to manage this with RootShield Plus. I should be able to use RootShield to protect anything new to the farm from infection while the older stuff is grown out with the aid of RootShield Plus and eliminated mostly by smoking. The Tabaco and Tomato farmers apparently use a 15 minute wash with 10% TSP followed by a 5 minute wash in 10% bleach of new seed. I did try the 15 minute wash in TSP but didn't feel lucky enough to do the 10% bleach wash so I didn't push my luck, so far so good I had a good germ rate and now have 1.5'' seedlings. I got desperate at 1 point and planted about a dozen sickly clones I thought would die into #4 sunshine mix along with gypsum ( ground up chunk of damaged drywall from my garage wall ) and composted animal manure to my supprise over a period of time pushed off to the side in my green house and shaded out by all the big plants they turned around and became healthy plants but still seemed to be slow growing. Yes the first 2'' of stock when split length wise has some skid marks on some plants but most of the brown out rot at least on these clones is around soil level internally on the stock.

The ogbiowar root pack has trichoderma t-22 at 5billion CFU per gram.

 

[budfarmer]

O.K but will biowar help the infected plants return to near normal ? Getting them back in loose dirt seems to be a big plus get lots of oxygen to the roots let them really dry out to near wilting a couple times seems to fuck this up as well being dry like that with lots of oxygen to the roots. Also adding the gypsum for extra calcium seemed to help the plants often show signs of calcium deficiency because the roots and stem can't pass nutrients up the tree very well no matter how much you raise your EC your plants still starve. I believe this arrived on the seed coating on some seeds I ordered from a seed co. so it might be a good idea to figure out a disenfectant wash for new seeds if you are going to bring seeds to your farm. I actually had the customs guys find the marijuana seeds when they arrived here from Europe by mail, they sent me a form which they had printed explaining my marijuana seeds had been confiscated, apparently agriculture laws prohibit importing seeds ect. of any kind without following the proper regulations luckily they also checked the box on the line that said no action to be taken. Ironically I ended up getting a disease transmitted through the mail.

 

[We Solidarity]

talked with @true grit today and am going to re-examine some infected stems for nematodes...they are much more active in heat which is probably why I never saw anything moving in my samples (they had been refrigerated overnight).

 

[Freakshow]

I'm still in the middle of this thread, so I will keep reading. I've been having major dudding issues for about a year and a half. It all started about the time AN came out with its ph perfect line so I was blaming that. Plants were stunted, buds produced no trichs, plants would yellow and get crappy when fed, etc. I haven't had a decent harvest for a long time. Finally, i found this thread and signed up.
The fungal infection hit home for me. The symptoms were spot on with what Dorje was describing, along with others. So, I sprayed my veg plants and moms with Eagle, ordered a different systemic fungicide as back up, picked up a bunch of Oregonism, along with a few gallons of the stuff my local stores brews with its vortex brewer. I mixed the Oregonsim with the brew at about 3 tablespoons per gallons and watered the veg plants and moms. This was 2 days after I sprayed with Eagle. I went out of town yesterday and upon returning today, my coco plants in veg had greened up. My dirt plants in veg were showing the signs of new growth. My rooted clones were greening up too.
am I out of the woods? I doubt it. But this does give me a glimmer of hope and I wanted to share with y'all

peace

 

[Freakshow]

for those fighting the nematodes, there's a wedsite called "Do My Own Pest Control" that has lots of products to fight both fungus and nematodes. You can get darn near anything there. Nematicides are my next step if the root inoculations with Oregonism XL and spraying with Eagle 20EW doesn't work

 

[Freakshow]

I have a question for y'all: When you chop your dudded plants, what does the substrate smell like? I have noticed that my healthy plants, ie non-duds, smell like myco or mushroms. The substrate from my duds smell like mold.

any thoughts?

 

[GrowGod]

I have a question for y'all: When you chop your dudded plants, what does the substrate smell like? I have noticed that my healthy plants, ie non-duds, smell like myco or mushroms. The substrate from my duds smell like mold.

any thoughts?

Same thing happened to me. Turned out I had built up salts in my medium and my ph runoff was like 4.3 :eek: if this is your problem you need to use a product like floral keen

 

[Freakshow]

Hey GrowGod, i thought about that but I am barely able to feed these plants. The coco stays wet for way longer than it should, the plants yellow when I feed them, even at half strength and lower. I don't think it's a salt build up. pH issues could be part of the problem, mold and crap growing in the coco causing a low ph.

I think everyone should buy stock in Aurora or Plant Success, cuz I've been adding that stuff like crazy.

 

[GrowGod]

They won't suck it up because either your coco came hot or at some point the coco dried out and the salts crystallized . Your describing exactly what my plants were doing. :) Check run bet it's way off

 

[Freakshow]

so a flush is in order?

 

[GrowGod]

No, u can flush all day won't do anything. Get florakleen to clean them out.

 

[Freakshow]

ok, I flushed the flower girls with flora kleen. Some of the pots had a good deal flush out of them - a couple were over 1200 ppm. Most were around 600. As soon as they dry, they will be fed lightly and i'll pray to get some trichome development. thanks for that tip!

 

[GrowGod]

ok, I flushed the flower girls with flora kleen. Some of the pots had a good deal flush out of them - a couple were over 1200 ppm. Most were around 600. As soon as they dry, they will be fed lightly and i'll pray to get some trichome development. thanks for that tip!

What was your ph run off at?