Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

[TKO]

Advanced HLVd.

 

[MurdochJones]

Hey guys-

I know there have been lots of established theories about nematodes being the cause of the dudding, I have very strong reason to suspect that the stunting is viral, and is transmitted by root aphids. I have been to a lab three times with tissue samples of infected plants and have yet to see a single nematode (even with the help of mycologists and soil biologists) after hours of lab time. I know there are samples that people have seen nematodes on, but at least two of those samples came from outdoor plants, where it is far more likely to encounter nematodes.

After working with an old friend working in a food science program at a major university, I have identified the species of aphid that attacks cannabis (Rhopalosiphum rufiabdominale - the red rice root aphid...originally I had thought the species was Rhopalosiphum padi - the bird cherry oat aphid, but the red rice aphid fits the bill 100% anatomically and behaviorally), and discovered that it is a major vector for a disease called "barley yellow dwarf virus" which affects cereal crops worldwide.

BYDV is known to hibernate in many different types of grains and grasses, but, just like the rice root aphid, is not known to infect crops outside of the Poaceae family, until now. Because of how drastic the implications of this could be, I'm going to be getting some help from leaders in this field, as well as help from a specialized lab that deals exclusively with plant viruses. I've been chasing this problem extensively for nearly 3 years now, the general consensus of every professional I've worked with has been that this is a hormonal collapse or a viral infection; we'll know the answer soon.

Been seeing this at the farm i'm working at for years and could never find out any thing about it. Brought it up to coworkers but they don't seem to believe its anything more than a possible pH issue. Clones have been taken off infected plants and used as moms later and has ruined some of our strains in the garden. I've also noticed incredibly brittle plant tissue from the stalk to the tops, what seemed like discoloration of the plant tissue within the branches (although i did not have a healthy plant to compare tissue with), significantly stunted leaves where the leaf blades will started to twist and overlap eachother. Fan leaves sometimes get especially dark near the petiole and fade to the tips with a odd sheen over the darker areas. Bud production is typically stunted by up to 2/3 of its typical growth. trichome production is almost non existent, smell and flavor profile are in the same boat. the branches also tend to get reallll light green, which doesn't seem too odd until i saw it happen to a gods gift. this has been eating at me for years, and itd be nice to finally bring some answers and possibly a solution to the problem back to the garden.

 

[Heynow]

This is classic russet mite damage. They will destroy your crop, plague you for months, until you eradicate them .they get on everything, are invisible to the eye and don't have webbing

 

[Heynow]

Been seeing this at the farm i'm working at for years and could never find out any thing about it. Brought it up to coworkers but they don't seem to believe its anything more than a possible pH issue. Clones have been taken off infected plants and used as moms later and has ruined some of our strains in the garden. I've also noticed incredibly brittle plant tissue from the stalk to the tops, what seemed like discoloration of the plant tissue within the branches (although i did not have a healthy plant to compare tissue with), significantly stunted leaves where the leaf blades will started to twist and overlap eachother. Fan leaves sometimes get especially dark near the petiole and fade to the tips with a odd sheen over the darker areas. Bud production is typically stunted by up to 2/3 of its typical growth. trichome production is almost non existent, smell and flavor profile are in the same boat. the branches also tend to get reallll light green, which doesn't seem too odd until i saw it happen to a gods gift. this has been eating at me for years, and itd be nice to finally bring some answers and possibly a solution to the problem back to the garden.

Russet mites 1000%

 

[Heynow]

Advanced HLVd. View attachment 1074740View attachment 1074741View attachment 1074742View attachment 1074743View attachment 1074744View attachment 1074745View attachment 1074746View attachment 1074747

No. Russets fer sure

 

[TKO]

No. Russets fer sure

And the wide/sideways growth of the lateral shoots is russet mites as well.

 

[palm eezy]

i had trouble with finding pests that needed heavy magnification, or weren't obvious. even with a quality scope, like a stereoscope, i never managed to get a positive id on typical samples. but i did learn a trick: put leaf, stem or stump samples into decent quality ziplock baggies, sealed tight and flat, and let them sit for a week. like an entire box of 100. you can then go over them with a loupe and a white surface to quickly find anything that might be of interest. or look for, and attempt to classify bacterial or fungal growth. if you have particular plants that have struggled without obvious explanations, this is a good method. the time in the sealed bag helps to separate anything that moves or crawls from the plant material.

with clean genetics and low pest pressure, quality marijuana is extremely easy to grow. i'm not saying the best of the best, but i fully attribute the blandness of the past decade or so not to influx of growers, legalization, etc, but numerous rampant diseases, pests in the cuts being (openly) passed around.

if you have grown good stuff before and have been struggling with what worked, clean house and stay away from clones. it sucks going from seed when you don't have multiple grows, but if you are a half-ass decent grower you can definitely save yourself the headaches of the how's and why's.

 

[palm eezy]

regarding TKO's pictures: the damage does seem to be pest much more than virus, in my eyes. not evenly distributed. i'm guessing by the structure these are recently rooted large cuttings. "duds" plants would never root at this size, in my experience.

cannabis-loving variants of downey mildew that thrive in conditions it shouldn't

gnats-fusarium-broadmite complex

aphids-bulb mites-nematodes

hemp russets - small populations that are possibly much more resilient, mobile and destructive than other pests

cyclamen mites from ornamentals - doesn't have to be from cannabis.

it is possible that any of these bug spread what would be an otherwise innocuous amounts of HPLVd, as they start from a small spot and move on out.

i'm sure i'm missing some, but my point is there are many, many things going on besides duds that most growers will not ID and remedy without going through some serious ups and downs.

duds plants don't have any pliability to the stems, lack typical apical growth, poor root structure. with a clean plant, it will be (slightly more) difficult to clone tops vs. the rest of the plant. with a dud plant, only the best newest growth has a fighting chance. the speed of the onset of the effects will be fairly slow, absent any other vectors (bunch of pests moving it around). it will take a number of rounds of growing a cut to be truly pronounced. assuming this was an otherwise clean plant and that was around a duds plant.

 

[Aqua Man]

i had trouble with finding pests that needed heavy magnification, or weren't obvious. even with a quality scope, like a stereoscope, i never managed to get a positive id on typical samples. but i did learn a trick: put leaf, stem or stump samples into decent quality ziplock baggies, sealed tight and flat, and let them sit for a week. like an entire box of 100. you can then go over them with a loupe and a white surface to quickly find anything that might be of interest. or look for, and attempt to classify bacterial or fungal growth. if you have particular plants that have struggled without obvious explanations, this is a good method. the time in the sealed bag helps to separate anything that moves or crawls from the plant material.

with clean genetics and low pest pressure, quality marijuana is extremely easy to grow. i'm not saying the best of the best, but i fully attribute the blandness of the past decade or so not to influx of growers, legalization, etc, but numerous rampant diseases, pests in the cuts being (openly) passed around.

if you have grown good stuff before and have been struggling with what worked, clean house and stay away from clones. it sucks going from seed when you don't have multiple grows, but if you are a half-ass decent grower you can definitely save yourself the headaches of the how's and why's.

regarding TKO's pictures: the damage does seem to be pest much more than virus, in my eyes. not evenly distributed. i'm guessing by the structure these are recently rooted large cuttings. "duds" plants would never root at this size, in my experience.

cannabis-loving variants of downey mildew that thrive in conditions it shouldn't

gnats-fusarium-broadmite complex

aphids-bulb mites-nematodes

hemp russets - small populations that are possibly much more resilient, mobile and destructive than other pests

cyclamen mites from ornamentals - doesn't have to be from cannabis.

it is possible that any of these bug spread what would be an otherwise innocuous amounts of HPLVd, as they start from a small spot and move on out.

i'm sure i'm missing some, but my point is there are many, many things going on besides duds that most growers will not ID and remedy without going through some serious ups and downs.

duds plants don't have any pliability to the stems, lack typical apical growth, poor root structure. with a clean plant, it will be (slightly more) difficult to clone tops vs. the rest of the plant. with a dud plant, only the best newest growth has a fighting chance. the speed of the onset of the effects will be fairly slow, absent any other vectors (bunch of pests moving it around). it will take a number of rounds of growing a cut to be truly pronounced. assuming this was an otherwise clean plant and that was around a duds plant.

Welcome to the farm and great posts

 

[Heynow]

The reason they "dud" from russets is the life cycle. The life cycle is totally different from spider mite. There are 4 stages of growth instead of three. They lay the eggs INSIDE the stem. The cycle is almost 3o days from egg to adult. They suck the sugar and replace it with a toxin that cause the "russeting" of the leaves.

They possibly will transmit hops latent viriod, but that's not the issue in those pics.

I believe that room is fully infested. The Russets move along the trays, are easily spread by just touching an infested and then touching a non infested plant. Also, the fact are showing that early in their life cycle shows me they are taking cuts from an infested mother.

They are a fucking bitch to control...it can be done, but will take every ounce of knowledge and perseverance to eradicate.

These will not be phased by any traditional treatments (neem, pyrethrin) they will react to spinosad, but if you aren't using a spinosad that is a combination of spinosad A & D, good luck.

There are 2 things that will slow them down...flying skull nuke em and big time exterminator.

You can also use predator mites (a. Andersoni)

Other than that... Conserve sc (dow spinosad) and forbid 4f.

You must wash and bleach 3 x or replace all plastic, the fuckers will live on it for 3 months. And start with new genetics from a clean room

 

[Buttercup726]

Noticed more than a few leaves looking like this. Is this a characteristic of hplvd?

 

[Frankster]

That's a mag deficit, correct?

 

[Buttercup726]

That's a mag deficit, correct?

I’m not sure. this area has been infected with hplvd viroid/ dudding plants. It’s like a plague around here.

I’m trying to find info on the characteristics of hplvd viroid and how it affects the leaves. Plan on going the seed route next time around.

appreciate the input

 

[Frankster]

I’m not sure. this area has been infected with hplvd viroid/ dudding plants. It’s like a plague around here.

I’m trying to find info on the characteristics of hplvd viroid and how it affects the leaves. Plan on going the seed route next time around.

appreciate the input

Yea, I"m actually working from seeds myself, and I wonder if I haven't seen a few things like this come though the garden over the last year or so, (this is a long read) and if so, I want to learn it, so I can weed it out also. But also, many of those symptoms resemble or mimmic other phenomena

Do seeds mitigate it? or is it transferable to the next generation of plants. This thread is hell'a old.

 

[Buttercup726]

Yea, I"m actually working from seeds myself, and I wonder if I haven't seen a few things like this come though the garden over the last year or so, (this is a long read) and if so, I want to learn it, so I can weed it out also. But also, many of those symptoms resemble or mimmic other phenomena

Do seeds mitigate it? or is it transferable to the next generation of plants. This thread is hell'a old.

This virus can also be transmitted through the seed of a diseased plant but although there is ongoing research to determine how it happens and the transmission rate. As mentioned above, it’s almost impossible to identify an infected plant because there are asymptomatic plants that may look healthy but are actively spreading the virus to your whole crop so it’s essential you take safety precautions.


^^^^ https://2fast4buds.com/news/what-is-the-hplvd-and-how-treat-it

I just threw out a bunch clones exhibiting these characteristics and come to find out the nursery in which I bought them from is currently closed for weeks now for “house cleaning” they are denying they have it and offering zero refunds.

I got through a run in the past with a few plants having hplvd. Didn’t know it back then. Strangely they were infected but did not infect any surrounding plants.

First it was the borg, then root aphids, russet mites and now viroids. Shit is wild

 

[Trustfall]

This virus can also be transmitted through the seed of a diseased plant but although there is ongoing research to determine how it happens and the transmission rate. As mentioned above, it’s almost impossible to identify an infected plant because there are asymptomatic plants that may look healthy but are actively spreading the virus to your whole crop so it’s essential you take safety precautions.


^^^^ https://2fast4buds.com/news/what-is-the-hplvd-and-how-treat-it

I just threw out a bunch clones exhibiting these characteristics and come to find out the nursery in which I bought them from is currently closed for weeks now for “house cleaning” they are denying they have it and offering zero refunds.

I got through a run in the past with a few plants having hplvd. Didn’t know it back then. Strangely they were infected but did not infect any surrounding plants.

First it was the borg, then root aphids, russet mites and now viroids. Shit is wild

Is that you dr. Fauci?

 

[Done]

Yea, I"m actually working from seeds myself, and I wonder if I haven't seen a few things like this come though the garden over the last year or so, (this is a long read) and if so, I want to learn it, so I can weed it out also. But also, many of those symptoms resemble or mimmic other phenomena

Do seeds mitigate it? or is it transferable to the next generation of plants. This thread is hell'a old.

 

[Done]

Just figured out I had this going in my 3 tents. Ive been beating my head against the wall trying to figure out what was going on. Finish girls in week 4 and killing the 9 that I was about to flip tomorrow to 12/12. Should I just flip those girls and say f it and see what happens? Personal stuff only. Is it worth it to make hash or oil? or a waste of nutes, water, lights and time?

Hop Latent Viroid- Good info​

 

[secretagent420]

Hey guys i had a crop from Exotic Genetix two different genetics, 10 females, plus 4 females from a underground spanish breeder, all from seed and they all had no smell during flower, no smell at all, i've searched as hell and everything on the grow was dialed in from temps to RH to kPa and sutff like that... The plants came out beautifull but with no smell, i couldn't check the thricomes cos i don't have a macro lens to do that i think HLV damages the thricome making its heads smaller therefore holding less to no terps and less THC content... Those pics are day 60

 

[Trustfall]

Definately not dudded secret agent, way too many tricomes to be. Most likely just low Oder pheno’s.