Greetings All:
The purpose of this message is to bring awareness and resolution to an unidentified pathogen that has the ability to severely impact the entire cannabis industry and likely already is. Cases are confirmed in California and Colorado.
Below is a clear description of the symptoms this plant pathogen causes and supporting information, pictures and links to help identify it. We hope to use our community of breeders, growers, pathologists and scientists to solve this problem before it becomes an epidemic.
First off, we are not pathologists, we are independent researchers and farmers, but we feel confident that this pathogen is a virus. It causes massive crop loss, widespread reduction in yields and may well be causing high concentrations of calcium oxalate crystals in cannabis, which is harmful to humans. The following is a summary of symptoms of the disease caused by this pathogen:
In Veg:
- Lack of apical dominance. Plants sometime grow wider than tall.
- No normal large fan leaf growth. Leaves are generally small and blades tend to point upward with an overall “spiky” appearance.
- The plants have an unusual branch structure, sometimes referred to as “witch-brooming.” Branches often bow down instead of growing up at a steep angle.
- Short spacing in between nodes, often bunching up with a section of unusually colored stem.
- Very brittle stems. Branches are thin, weak and rubbery and easily break off and flop around.
In Flowering:
- General lack of vigor and water uptake is impaired.
- Overall irregular development. Plants look impaired, behind schedule, and flowers are generally “larfy.” .
- Slow metabolism. Lack of water uptake.
- Chlorosis/yellowing. Tends to look nitrogen deficient. This starts at the bottom and moves upward.
**Thanks OnTheCrush
- Lack of resin and trichome production. Weak smell.
- Leaf death
- Wilting and often total plant death over time.
The disease caused by this pathogen is often mistaken for broad mite infestation. This is not a broad mite problem. Infected plants have tested clean for insects, mites of all kinds and for all the major fungal infections, including: Pythium, Fusarium, Rhizoctonia, Verticillium, and Phytophthora.
Infected plants have however, tested positive for Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV). Several online message threads have this disease as labeled “duds” or “duds syndrome.” Attached below are links to several relevant threads that illustrate the severity of this problem. There is no evidence that TMV causes “Duds,” just that TMV was confirmed in some samples from plants infected with “Duds.”
There seems to be a higher visible infection rate amongst farmers that keep mother plants of popular genetics, particularly, Gorilla Glue #4, OG, Girl Scout Cookies and Sour Diesel. People who clone from previous generations before flowering tend to have far less concentrations of visible infection. This does not mean the plants aren’t infected or that yields are not reduced substantially.
Our goal with this message is to find people, farmers and professionals that can help identify and solve this problem before it gets worse. Also, if any existing stocks of uninfected major genetic lineages can be identified, it is prudent that they be protected and preserved before they are exposed. If you think you’ve experienced this problem, please respond to this message with any information about your experience you’re willing to provide.
Healthy on left, infected on right (in veg)
Healthy on left, infected on right (in flower)
Links with valuable information and history:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/co-dud-collective.73664/
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=285743
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/what-to-do-with-duds.64342/
Greetings All:
The purpose of this message is to bring awareness and resolution to an unidentified pathogen that has the ability to severely impact the entire cannabis industry and likely already is. Cases are confirmed in California and Colorado.
Below is a clear description of the symptoms this plant pathogen causes and supporting information, pictures and links to help identify it. We hope to use our community of breeders, growers, pathologists and scientists to solve this problem before it becomes an epidemic.
First off, we are not pathologists, we are independent researchers and farmers, but we feel confident that this pathogen is a virus. It causes massive crop loss, widespread reduction in yields and may well be causing high concentrations of calcium oxalate crystals in cannabis, which is harmful to humans. The following is a summary of symptoms of the disease caused by this pathogen:
In Veg:
- Lack of apical dominance. Plants sometime grow wider than tall.
- No normal large fan leaf growth. Leaves are generally small and blades tend to point upward with an overall “spiky” appearance.
- The plants have an unusual branch structure, sometimes referred to as “witch-brooming.” Branches often bow down instead of growing up at a steep angle.
- Short spacing in between nodes, often bunching up with a section of unusually colored stem.
- Very brittle stems. Branches are thin, weak and rubbery and easily break off and flop around.
In Flowering:
- General lack of vigor and water uptake is impaired.
- Overall irregular development. Plants look impaired, behind schedule, and flowers are generally “larfy.” .
- Slow metabolism. Lack of water uptake.
- Chlorosis/yellowing. Tends to look nitrogen deficient. This starts at the bottom and moves upward.
**Thanks OnTheCrush
- Lack of resin and trichome production. Weak smell.
- Leaf death
- Wilting and often total plant death over time.
The disease caused by this pathogen is often mistaken for broad mite infestation. This is not a broad mite problem. Infected plants have tested clean for insects, mites of all kinds and for all the major fungal infections, including: Pythium, Fusarium, Rhizoctonia, Verticillium, and Phytophthora.
Infected plants have however, tested positive for Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV). Several online message threads have this disease as labeled “duds” or “duds syndrome.” Attached below are links to several relevant threads that illustrate the severity of this problem. There is no evidence that TMV causes “Duds,” just that TMV was confirmed in some samples from plants infected with “Duds.”
There seems to be a higher visible infection rate amongst farmers that keep mother plants of popular genetics, particularly, Gorilla Glue #4, OG, Girl Scout Cookies and Sour Diesel. People who clone from previous generations before flowering tend to have far less concentrations of visible infection. This does not mean the plants aren’t infected or that yields are not reduced substantially.
Our goal with this message is to find people, farmers and professionals that can help identify and solve this problem before it gets worse. Also, if any existing stocks of uninfected major genetic lineages can be identified, it is prudent that they be protected and preserved before they are exposed. If you think you’ve experienced this problem, please respond to this message with any information about your experience you’re willing to provide.
Healthy on left, infected on right (in veg)
Healthy on left, infected on right (in flower)
Links with valuable information and history:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/co-dud-collective.73664/
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=285743
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/what-to-do-with-duds.64342/
I gotta get my pics up here from a problem I had with ALL 3 of my Northern Lights Auto seeds from Vision Seeds. The plants didn't seem to exhibit ANYTHING out of the norm until fairly far into flowering (plus I'm sure I was in a bit of denial) There were no physical deformities per se but once flowering started I noticed there was NO TRICHOME PRODUCTION, NO SMELL (I mean I've ordered salads at dinner that have smelled skunkier than these plants) and it wasn't because there weren't flowers; honestly these were some very beautifully structured girls in VEG AND BLOOM. When I finally admitted that these were runts/duds I cut and trimmed a cola for hahas and it looked AMAZING....but USELESS: smelled like broccoli and felt and looked the same.
That's what ya call bunk..not duds :)
Looks like spider mites, look at the bottom of some of the spotted leaves with a magnifying glass.
Green cleaner will knock them out no problem and can be used up until the last few weeks before harvest. If you cant get green cleaner iso and water in a sprayer will kill most of them, just dont spray your plant with lights on.
Bingo...and we have a WINNER!!! This ^^^^ folks is the nitty gritty of the so called "dud" phenomenon. The widespread sharing of marijuana plant cuttings...combined with pests like thrips , mites, and aphids (all 3 are the perfect virus spreaders) with the general lack of vigorous plants and immunity in an artificial light/indoor environment = DUDS. Ive experienced it first hand as many other decent growers on the scene. And couple this with the hack seed makers out there everyone buys from just compunds the problem. We Solidarity nailed it up top. I really think we are starting to demand too much from the cannabis plant. Thankfully we have testing and extraction methods. But I actually thought about this dud phenomena decades ago becoming a problem in the future.
Anyone know whether anything conclusive has come out of Rick and We's work? Also wondering what this study set is designed to illuminate? Are we trying to eliminate duds or trying to eliminate a specific virus? Both of those seem to be fruitless in the sense that viruses will be with you always and duds are probably a many factored thing (I could be mistaken, but I'm having a hard time thinking duds have one cause). Maybe I'm missing something. What are we doing?
My bet is that it (being a dud) is something that could be caused by a number of "factors." There are so many possible permutations of genetics in a specific seed/plant that duds probably do have a genetic component. I agree that the best solution for those of us without the time or resources to track this down is to grow good plants (GGP), and trash the uncooperative peckerwoods (including the soil/medium they were grown in)...and avoid those genetics in the future...it's not worth your time or risking your healthy plants.
Slow your roll guy
Cool your jets bro! this is a old thread you dug up.
Physan20 at 3ml per gallon will clear it up.
I just thought you were throwing a fit.
