Greetings All:
The purpose of this message is to bring awareness and resolution to an unidentified pathogen that has the ability to severely impact the entire cannabis industry and likely already is. Cases are confirmed in California and Colorado.
Below is a clear description of the symptoms this plant pathogen causes and supporting information, pictures and links to help identify it. We hope to use our community of breeders, growers, pathologists and scientists to solve this problem before it becomes an epidemic.
First off, we are not pathologists, we are independent researchers and farmers, but we feel confident that this pathogen is a virus. It causes massive crop loss, widespread reduction in yields and may well be causing high concentrations of calcium oxalate crystals in cannabis, which is harmful to humans. The following is a summary of symptoms of the disease caused by this pathogen:
In Veg:
- Lack of apical dominance. Plants sometime grow wider than tall.
- No normal large fan leaf growth. Leaves are generally small and blades tend to point upward with an overall “spiky” appearance.
- The plants have an unusual branch structure, sometimes referred to as “witch-brooming.” Branches often bow down instead of growing up at a steep angle.
- Short spacing in between nodes, often bunching up with a section of unusually colored stem.
- Very brittle stems. Branches are thin, weak and rubbery and easily break off and flop around.
In Flowering:
- General lack of vigor and water uptake is impaired.
- Overall irregular development. Plants look impaired, behind schedule, and flowers are generally “larfy.” .
- Slow metabolism. Lack of water uptake.
- Chlorosis/yellowing. Tends to look nitrogen deficient. This starts at the bottom and moves upward.
**Thanks OnTheCrush
- Lack of resin and trichome production. Weak smell.
- Leaf death
- Wilting and often total plant death over time.
The disease caused by this pathogen is often mistaken for broad mite infestation. This is not a broad mite problem. Infected plants have tested clean for insects, mites of all kinds and for all the major fungal infections, including: Pythium, Fusarium, Rhizoctonia, Verticillium, and Phytophthora.
Infected plants have however, tested positive for Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV). Several online message threads have this disease as labeled “duds” or “duds syndrome.” Attached below are links to several relevant threads that illustrate the severity of this problem. There is no evidence that TMV causes “Duds,” just that TMV was confirmed in some samples from plants infected with “Duds.”
There seems to be a higher visible infection rate amongst farmers that keep mother plants of popular genetics, particularly, Gorilla Glue #4, OG, Girl Scout Cookies and Sour Diesel. People who clone from previous generations before flowering tend to have far less concentrations of visible infection. This does not mean the plants aren’t infected or that yields are not reduced substantially.
Our goal with this message is to find people, farmers and professionals that can help identify and solve this problem before it gets worse. Also, if any existing stocks of uninfected major genetic lineages can be identified, it is prudent that they be protected and preserved before they are exposed. If you think you’ve experienced this problem, please respond to this message with any information about your experience you’re willing to provide.
Healthy on left, infected on right (in veg)
Healthy on left, infected on right (in flower)
Links with valuable information and history:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/co-dud-collective.73664/
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=285743
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/what-to-do-with-duds.64342/
Greetings All:
The purpose of this message is to bring awareness and resolution to an unidentified pathogen that has the ability to severely impact the entire cannabis industry and likely already is. Cases are confirmed in California and Colorado.
Below is a clear description of the symptoms this plant pathogen causes and supporting information, pictures and links to help identify it. We hope to use our community of breeders, growers, pathologists and scientists to solve this problem before it becomes an epidemic.
First off, we are not pathologists, we are independent researchers and farmers, but we feel confident that this pathogen is a virus. It causes massive crop loss, widespread reduction in yields and may well be causing high concentrations of calcium oxalate crystals in cannabis, which is harmful to humans. The following is a summary of symptoms of the disease caused by this pathogen:
In Veg:
- Lack of apical dominance. Plants sometime grow wider than tall.
- No normal large fan leaf growth. Leaves are generally small and blades tend to point upward with an overall “spiky” appearance.
- The plants have an unusual branch structure, sometimes referred to as “witch-brooming.” Branches often bow down instead of growing up at a steep angle.
- Short spacing in between nodes, often bunching up with a section of unusually colored stem.
- Very brittle stems. Branches are thin, weak and rubbery and easily break off and flop around.
In Flowering:
- General lack of vigor and water uptake is impaired.
- Overall irregular development. Plants look impaired, behind schedule, and flowers are generally “larfy.” .
- Slow metabolism. Lack of water uptake.
- Chlorosis/yellowing. Tends to look nitrogen deficient. This starts at the bottom and moves upward.
**Thanks OnTheCrush
- Lack of resin and trichome production. Weak smell.
- Leaf death
- Wilting and often total plant death over time.
The disease caused by this pathogen is often mistaken for broad mite infestation. This is not a broad mite problem. Infected plants have tested clean for insects, mites of all kinds and for all the major fungal infections, including: Pythium, Fusarium, Rhizoctonia, Verticillium, and Phytophthora.
Infected plants have however, tested positive for Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV). Several online message threads have this disease as labeled “duds” or “duds syndrome.” Attached below are links to several relevant threads that illustrate the severity of this problem. There is no evidence that TMV causes “Duds,” just that TMV was confirmed in some samples from plants infected with “Duds.”
There seems to be a higher visible infection rate amongst farmers that keep mother plants of popular genetics, particularly, Gorilla Glue #4, OG, Girl Scout Cookies and Sour Diesel. People who clone from previous generations before flowering tend to have far less concentrations of visible infection. This does not mean the plants aren’t infected or that yields are not reduced substantially.
Our goal with this message is to find people, farmers and professionals that can help identify and solve this problem before it gets worse. Also, if any existing stocks of uninfected major genetic lineages can be identified, it is prudent that they be protected and preserved before they are exposed. If you think you’ve experienced this problem, please respond to this message with any information about your experience you’re willing to provide.
Healthy on left, infected on right (in veg)
Healthy on left, infected on right (in flower)
Links with valuable information and history:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/co-dud-collective.73664/
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=285743
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/what-to-do-with-duds.64342/
I gotta get my pics up here from a problem I had with ALL 3 of my Northern Lights Auto seeds from Vision Seeds. The plants didn't seem to exhibit ANYTHING out of the norm until fairly far into flowering (plus I'm sure I was in a bit of denial) There were no physical deformities per se but once flowering started I noticed there was NO TRICHOME PRODUCTION, NO SMELL (I mean I've ordered salads at dinner that have smelled skunkier than these plants) and it wasn't because there weren't flowers; honestly these were some very beautifully structured girls in VEG AND BLOOM. When I finally admitted that these were runts/duds I cut and trimmed a cola for hahas and it looked AMAZING....but USELESS: smelled like broccoli and felt and looked the same.Collection of other examples from various threads of Duds in all stages
That's what ya call bunk..not duds :)I gotta get my pics up here from a problem I had with ALL 3 of my Northern Lights Auto seeds from Vision Seeds. The plants didn't seem to exhibit ANYTHING out of the norm until fairly far into flowering (plus I'm sure I was in a bit of denial) There were no physical deformities per se but once flowering started I noticed there was NO TRICHOME PRODUCTION, NO SMELL (I mean I've ordered salads at dinner that have smelled skunkier than these plants) and it wasn't because there weren't flowers; honestly these were some very beautifully structured girls in VEG AND BLOOM. When I finally admitted that these were runts/duds I cut and trimmed a cola for hahas and it looked AMAZING....but USELESS: smelled like broccoli and felt and looked the same.
A crappy experience overall what with all the time, electricity and nutes I wasted on them and all for nothing. Btw, I didn't see ANY BUGS during my grow at all. I'll put pics up asap. They're on my phone, I'm on my tablet
Looks like spider mites, look at the bottom of some of the spotted leaves with a magnifying glass.I have major duds. One plant from last harvest have every symptoms as described. Currently I have 8 plants 1 week into flower are infected. A person did smoke in the grow room btw. Should they get toss out? Check out some pics
Green cleaner will knock them out no problem and can be used up until the last few weeks before harvest. If you cant get green cleaner iso and water in a sprayer will kill most of them, just dont spray your plant with lights on.Visited hydro store, a guy said spider mites issue. I believe that's the case.
Bingo...and we have a WINNER!!! This ^^^^ folks is the nitty gritty of the so called "dud" phenomenon. The widespread sharing of marijuana plant cuttings...combined with pests like thrips , mites, and aphids (all 3 are the perfect virus spreaders) with the general lack of vigorous plants and immunity in an artificial light/indoor environment = DUDS. Ive experienced it first hand as many other decent growers on the scene. And couple this with the hack seed makers out there everyone buys from just compunds the problem. We Solidarity nailed it up top. I really think we are starting to demand too much from the cannabis plant. Thankfully we have testing and extraction methods. But I actually thought about this dud phenomena decades ago becoming a problem in the future.I'm 100% convinced that we are dealing with a virus. Two of the most widespread and common pests in our industry (rice root aphids and western flower thrips) are both vectors for hundreds of different species of virus that affect thousands of different species of plants...and many of those viruses have only been discovered in the last 5-10 years.
There are many crops in agriculture that deal with similar problems as this, however there are protocols in place to make sure pest and crop cross-contamination are kept to a minimum, and when outbreaks occur it is a national concern.
Unfortunately, the cannabis industry has no regulation whatsoever, and in my experience 4/5 growers are dealing with at least one pest that is a known viral vector, and I haven't spoken to/witnessed a single grower that doesn't source clones from unknown sources (just because you know who popped the seed doesn't mean you know the story of the cutting, or of the parent plants). The lack of cohesion when it comes to pest awareness and the practice of breeding plants in synthetic environments apart from any natural process, on top of the clandestine and untracked nature of sharing/spreading cuts, puts cannabis at the top of the list for crops at risk for a viral collapse.
Almost every crop that is propagated through cuttings or tissue culture is contaminated by viruses, and every crop has dedicated research centers (either independed or university based) to stay ahead of the viruses and produce clean/resistant stock. As we speak potatoes and bananas are being decimated by viruses; berries, melons, grapes, squashes, and a countless number of perennials are also dealing with almost identical problems as us.
There are very few answers to this solution. I and others (@Ricksauce you're the man) are working very hard on trying to get professional eyes on this epidemic, it's been a hell of a year but I think things are finally starting to get moving.
Anyone know whether anything conclusive has come out of Rick and We's work? Also wondering what this study set is designed to illuminate? Are we trying to eliminate duds or trying to eliminate a specific virus? Both of those seem to be fruitless in the sense that viruses will be with you always and duds are probably a many factored thing (I could be mistaken, but I'm having a hard time thinking duds have one cause). Maybe I'm missing something. What are we doing?So we beat on...
My bet is that it (being a dud) is something that could be caused by a number of "factors." There are so many possible permutations of genetics in a specific seed/plant that duds probably do have a genetic component. I agree that the best solution for those of us without the time or resources to track this down is to grow good plants (GGP), and trash the uncooperative peckerwoods (including the soil/medium they were grown in)...and avoid those genetics in the future...it's not worth your time or risking your healthy plants.im leaning towards non virus and some kind of revert to primal genes
I struggled with this issue since 2009. Two years ago, I figured out EXACTLY what it is and how to fix it. I have clone onlys as old as 1986 and OGs as old as 1991 and I can get them to root in rockwool in 5 days. Before, it would take 21-25 days to root them. People used to try and clown me for talking about this issue, like the leaves going yellow in week 1 even after a heavy dose of Nitrogen. After figuring out the cause, they are asking me for advise lol. Im not about to give up years of work and have all my credit stolen. Its pretty sad but I will let the community figure it out, if they ever do.
Slow your roll guyHI EVERYONE!
IM A GROWER; GROWSHOP WORKER FROM SPAIN
I FIND A ISSUE; ITS A ROOTZONE PROBLEM, AFTER USING STREPTOMYCES GRISEOVIRIDIS K61 ALL SEEM TO BE OK.
THIS IS A RESPONSE TO NIGHTMARECREATURE. I HATE PEOPLE LIKE YOU, GO FUCK YOURSELF WHY DID YOU SAY THAT YOU "FIGURED OUT EXACLTY WHAT IS IS AND HOW TO FIX IT" IF YOU WONT BE ABLE TO HELP ANYBODY HERE ? BETTER DELETE YOU ACCOMPT PEOPLE LIKE YOU DONT HAVE TO BE IN THIS FORUM.
Cool your jets bro! this is a old thread you dug up.Hi! Sorry for being rude, my english is bad i would love tell him the same with a better vocabulary :p
Physan20 at 3ml per gallon will clear it up.a old thread with no response to the problem... but OK your welcome
I just thought you were throwing a fit.a old thread with no response to the problem... but OK your welcome
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