logic
Administrator
Staff
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i need some ew20 as i got a case of pm and green cure just isnt cutting it anymore...hit me up via pm if u can send me some :) amazon wont ship ew20 to spain..
- Status
G
GeneralRipper
- 93
- 18
I wonder why? LOL Has anyone tried PM wash?
http://npk-industries.com/products.html#power_wash
I haven't but person at the hydro store says you can even use it after harvest.
true grit
- 6,269
- 313
You are fucktard and obviously didn't/can't even read any of my post. What you quoted, was my intention of getting the grower to demonstrate why these chems ARE NOT needed if you do things right- nice interpretation there wise ass. I myself haven't used it but once in a year or two, NONE of my buds have pm or chems sprayed on them. And even so used properly in veg, there is no problem. Keep on being a bad ass wah wah.
SM- I don't care about your post, or online time, or what ever. As you can see I don't post logs here anymore either. And if all you folks can do is try to mock me by saying i think im expert- whatever, never claimed to be but i do/can grow circles around most. I don't need to sugar coat it. but as those that know me can say- i use that to help those around me and I still learn daily from folks around me too, but some folks just wanna make me out to be an ass:banana1sv6:
I don't have problems with all this crap because I've been through the headaches, found many things that work well, many that don't, many that are a waste of time, what i would take risks using, what i wouldnt, etc...In none of these posts do I advocate rampant use, like i stated from the beginning (and you have used it so you cant be like gen. ripper) used in low amounts at the right time and in conjuction with a proper room treatment you can fix the issue in fail swoop, save months of headaches, lots of $$ in crap treatments, cause minimal if any damage to plants, and give yourself the ability to get the room how it needs to be to keep things healthy....but hey why consider that when you can argue about resistance, cancer, science, this/that.
And no i don't believe the resistance crap because i know growers who have used E20, not used E20, etc and never get PM no matter where they are at and growing- even up by you in these areas of super resistance. Why? because they know how to set up a grow room to keep their plants at maximum health with least opportunity for new exposure. everything stays constant and they are vigilant. even when exposed, in a room with ideal conditions, even the pm won't strive. combine that with bacterial preventatives and they are even a step ahead. Even folks who are solid who get it, dont have problems after treating things properly. wheres teh resistance happening? In grows that aren't run right.
Perhaps if you didn't have such disdain for me or my responses you would have tried or considered some of the simple things i've suggested and realize im not trying to poison or ruin anyone or do anything extreme, but instead help folks. But hey i take blame on that end too for being a wise ass half the time. ha.
true grit
- 6,269
- 313
cemchris
Supporter
- 3,346
- 263
Yea Im all for lab tests. I think that will put it in black and white.
Yea Capo thats soil not foliage. Foliage is prob alot quicker being exposed to the elements and light. IDK I learned a long time ago on these forums to let people make their own decisions. By no means am I saying its bad or good. I don't use the stuff. Never had too. Just did a lot of reading when treating root aphids and chemcial breakdowns and half lives.
BTW moodster thats from the companies Msds on the chemical. Stupid or not thats what they said. Again doesnt bother me cause I dont get PM or use outside clones.
Yea Capo thats soil not foliage. Foliage is prob alot quicker being exposed to the elements and light. IDK I learned a long time ago on these forums to let people make their own decisions. By no means am I saying its bad or good. I don't use the stuff. Never had too. Just did a lot of reading when treating root aphids and chemcial breakdowns and half lives.
BTW moodster thats from the companies Msds on the chemical. Stupid or not thats what they said. Again doesnt bother me cause I dont get PM or use outside clones.
G
GeneralRipper
- 93
- 18
I feel only its always good to clean with mix of bleach and rubbing alcohol in-between grows. I also recommend burning sulfur at that time because the vapor gets into all the little cracks ware spores can hide. The best organic preventive stuff is Mycostop:
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/mycostop-fungicide.html
Concept is quite easy. Kill PM with good fungus. Ray mushroom fungus!
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/mycostop-fungicide.html
Concept is quite easy. Kill PM with good fungus. Ray mushroom fungus!
M
moodster
- 363
- 28
eagle is the only stuff that works logic is on the right track LOL:banana1sv6:
D
Donkdbz
- 309
- 28
Eagle 20 is a tool. People need to be taught how to use correctly. Keep your grow room clean and treat clones you receive from others with it to keep your room clean.
Teach others when and how to use chems correctly and thats that.
Organic people crack me up. Go to oregons fertilizer site and check out how much arsenic, lead and so on is in some all natural bat gauno products.
Teach others when and how to use chems correctly and thats that.
Organic people crack me up. Go to oregons fertilizer site and check out how much arsenic, lead and so on is in some all natural bat gauno products.
Seamaiden
Living dead girl
- 23,596
- 638
Arsenic and lead are two naturally occurring products. That doesn't violate any 'rule' of organics. Bella donna? Naturally growing, naturally occurring plant that can kill you. Safety is not to be made the equivalent of organic, at least not in my opinion. Hell, how about radon? The issue this organic grower has with chemicals is that she knows that humankind doesn't know everything and we sure in hell don't fully understand the systems we're fucking around with, and history bears out that we often fuck it up in a really big way.
TG, I'm not suggesting you believe in faeries. I'm suggesting you read the very good, solid research that already exists. But it's clear to me that you feel you know everything you need to know, and yes, you put it out there in a manner that implies that you feel you're an expert where others don't know shit. The way you continually come at me, and then try to mitigate what you've written by saying that you don't sugar coat things only serves to show that you have a hair across your ass about me. That's fine, I know not everyone is going to like me, and I don't need everyone to like me. Hell, I don't need anyone to like me.
But what I write about, even if incomplete, is as well qualified as I can possibly make it. If I make an unequivocal statement it's because I can back my shit up, too. And so if you've actually got something that goes against my statements, show me something more than your flappin' gums, mkay? :makeup
TG, I'm not suggesting you believe in faeries. I'm suggesting you read the very good, solid research that already exists. But it's clear to me that you feel you know everything you need to know, and yes, you put it out there in a manner that implies that you feel you're an expert where others don't know shit. The way you continually come at me, and then try to mitigate what you've written by saying that you don't sugar coat things only serves to show that you have a hair across your ass about me. That's fine, I know not everyone is going to like me, and I don't need everyone to like me. Hell, I don't need anyone to like me.
But what I write about, even if incomplete, is as well qualified as I can possibly make it. If I make an unequivocal statement it's because I can back my shit up, too. And so if you've actually got something that goes against my statements, show me something more than your flappin' gums, mkay? :makeup
delae632
IG @delae_632
Supporter
- 2,573
- 263
agreed
D
Donkdbz
- 309
- 28
Well the good news I live near a KFC so I will be fine.
Darth Fader
- 1,195
- 163
What? You're not gonna butt-rape him prison-style while they're unconscious in the ditch? Don't you think you're letting him off a little easy with only a couple broken bones, a burned down home, and NO BUTT-RAPING? How about at least a Rusty Trombone, or a Cleveland Steamer? Yeah, how'd you like to wake up in a ditch with broken arms and legs, and a cold turd on ya? I thought so ...
IBFTL! Someone's getting soft.
:banana1sv6:
Blaze
- 2,006
- 263
Oh man this thread made me so angry I had to go smoke a few grams of hash or this would turned into a ten page rant. I am very surprised at the information and advice given by some of the members that I do genuinely respect on here and that I THOUGHT knew what they were doing with this sort of stuff. Before I give my opinion on Eagle 20, let's look at the hard facts, since it is pretty obvious to me that most of the "experts" on this thread have not done their research in the slightest.
First, let's take a look at the potential health effects of Eagle 20. Here is information I paraphrased from the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) from Dow AgroSciences, the company that makes Eagle20. This is info straight from the horse's mouth, on what are the proven, established risks of using Eagle 20, as stated by the company that makes it:
"Inhalation may cause central nervous system effects. On animals effects have been reported in the liver, testes, adrenal gland, kidney, and thyroid. Contains chemicals known to cause cancer. Eagle 20 is considered by the EPA to pose both an immediate and a delayed health hazard." Not exactly harmless, is it? Here is the MSDS to see for yourself:
Second - let' take a look at the active ingredients in Eagle 20 and what other sources say about them. Eagle 20 contains two active ingredients - Naphthalene and Myclobutanil. The Pesticide Action Network (PAN), which is the most complete database for pesticides registered for use in the United States, has Mycobutanil listed as a "Bad Actor" chemical. The "Bad Actor" designation is reserved only for the most toxic of pesticides for easy identification. It is also on the California Proposition 65 list, which is a list of pesticides known to cause reproductive and developmental toxicity. In addition, Myclobutanil has been found to cause cancer. It is also a suspected endocrine disruptor, and is on the European Union Prioritization List of endocrine disrupting chemicals. Now that last part is important - endocrine disruptors are very, very bad for human health (I'll get to that in a minute).
According to its MSDS (again straight from the horse's mouth), Naphthalene, the other chemical in Eagle 20, is harmful if swallowed, may cause respiratory, skin or eye irritation and cancer. It is very toxic to aquatic organisms and may cause long-term harm in the environment. It is also listed as a "Bad Actor" chemical on the PAN database just like Mycobutanil. According to the EPA, it has acute health effects associated with hemolytic anemia, damage to the liver, and, in infants, neurological damage. Symptoms of exposure include headache, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, malaise, confusion, anemia, jaundice, convulsions, and coma.
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/naphthal.html
http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/NA/naphthalene.html
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_ChemUse.jsp?Rec_Id=PC120#ChemID
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC35114
Out of all the possible health hazards of Eagle 20, it is the fact that it is a endocrine disruptor that is the most concerning. Endocrine disruptors are chemicals that interfere with endocrine (the hormone system) in animals and humans even at extremely low doses. These disruptions can cause cancerous tumors, birth defects, and developmental disorders such as learning disabilities, severe attention deficit disorder, cognitive and brain development problems, deformations of the body, sexual development problems, feminizing of males, and masculine effects on females. Not only that, but if a developing fetus is exposed to and affected by endocrine disruptors, it can take decades for adverse effects to manifest. Even more disturbing, it appears that the effects of endocrine disruptors are passed from generation to generation through epigenetic modification of our DNA. Some research indicates that the effects are trans-generational, meaning that the hazardous health effects can be passed on for multiple generations. So not only can exposure to products like Eagle 20 cause hazardous health effects in you, but they can also cause hazardous health effects in your children, and possibly even you grand-children, decades after you were initially exposed.
http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/qendoc.asp
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine/index.cfm
So this leads us to the next question - how long does Eagle 20 remain chemically active? The answer: a hell of a lot longer than two weeks. According to EPA data, a single half life for Myclobutanil is between 61 and 71 days. Even at one full year between 29 and 33% of the Myclobutanil residue remained when tested. Indoors, where there is less UV light, and no weather to speed the break-down of the chemical, this will be even longer. So not only Eagle 20 still chemically active two week later - it is still active YEARS later. Every time you walk into your grow room, you are likely exposing yourself, since I highly doubt the Eagle 20 users on here wear protective gear for a full year when they enter their rooms after applying it. Also just because you are seeing the disease resurface within a few weeks after applications of Eagle 20 it does NOT mean the chemical is no longer active - in fact all that really means is you are probably breeding yourself some pesticide resistance mildew. Not only that but having the attitude of "well it hasn't gotten me sick so it must be fine" is so dangerous and irresponsible it is almost incomprehensible to me. Do you REALLY want to find out first-hand how much exposure of Eagle 20 it takes to get terminal cancer, or liver failure, or to give you kids birth defects, or any of the numerous, horrible other ways it can kill you?
http://www.epa.gov/espp/litstatus/effects/redleg-frog/myclobutanil/appendix-c.pdf
Finally, this brings us to the issues of resistance. Any pest, whether it be mildew or mites or whatever, will develop resistance to whatever pesticide is used again them repeatedly. This is one of the corner stones of proper Integrated Pest Management (IPM) and I am absolutely flooded that ANYONE claiming to know something about dealing with pests would claim that this problem does not exists. The arrogant, lazy, and down-right dangerous attitudes expressed on this thread are EXACTLY why mites and mildew are becoming more and more difficult to deal with. The vast majority of growers always uses the same pesticide for the same pest over, and over and over again, not even realizing they are shooting themselves in the foot by doing so. Pesticide resistant pests is a very real problem both in legit agriculture and in the cannabis community at large, and this thread is a great example of WHY so many people are ignorant about it. In fact, as Seamaiden already pointed out, it very clearly states on the Eagle 20 label that it WILL create resistant strain of mildew if used in excess (which is only 2-3 times a year). The University of Kentucky College of Agriculture has it's risk of resistance rated as "moderate." Here is the full list to check out (this is also a good read on proper pest management in turf grass and fungicide management in general).
So in conclusion: if you use Eagle 20 on cannabis, you very obviously lack the understanding and knowledge to properly use such a dangerous chemical, period. Eagle 20 is quite literally one of the most hazardous, toxic, and dangerous pesticides one can spray on their cannabis plants. General Rippers concerns are 100% accurate and valid, and if anything, were understated. One drop of this stuff really can give you cancer down the road - heck it can even give your kids cancer 30 years from now. Applying something like this so what is supposed to be medicine is absolutely insane.
I'm trying to be nice about this, but to you growers (especially supposed "medical" growers!!) that use Eagle 20: please stop using it. Seriously. Stop. You are poisoning yourself. You are poisoning the people who smoke your buds. You are poisoning the environment. You are poisoning future generations. You are breeding resistant strains of powdery mildew. Knock that shit off. It's bad for everyone, OK?
First, let's take a look at the potential health effects of Eagle 20. Here is information I paraphrased from the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) from Dow AgroSciences, the company that makes Eagle20. This is info straight from the horse's mouth, on what are the proven, established risks of using Eagle 20, as stated by the company that makes it:
"Inhalation may cause central nervous system effects. On animals effects have been reported in the liver, testes, adrenal gland, kidney, and thyroid. Contains chemicals known to cause cancer. Eagle 20 is considered by the EPA to pose both an immediate and a delayed health hazard." Not exactly harmless, is it? Here is the MSDS to see for yourself:
Second - let' take a look at the active ingredients in Eagle 20 and what other sources say about them. Eagle 20 contains two active ingredients - Naphthalene and Myclobutanil. The Pesticide Action Network (PAN), which is the most complete database for pesticides registered for use in the United States, has Mycobutanil listed as a "Bad Actor" chemical. The "Bad Actor" designation is reserved only for the most toxic of pesticides for easy identification. It is also on the California Proposition 65 list, which is a list of pesticides known to cause reproductive and developmental toxicity. In addition, Myclobutanil has been found to cause cancer. It is also a suspected endocrine disruptor, and is on the European Union Prioritization List of endocrine disrupting chemicals. Now that last part is important - endocrine disruptors are very, very bad for human health (I'll get to that in a minute).
According to its MSDS (again straight from the horse's mouth), Naphthalene, the other chemical in Eagle 20, is harmful if swallowed, may cause respiratory, skin or eye irritation and cancer. It is very toxic to aquatic organisms and may cause long-term harm in the environment. It is also listed as a "Bad Actor" chemical on the PAN database just like Mycobutanil. According to the EPA, it has acute health effects associated with hemolytic anemia, damage to the liver, and, in infants, neurological damage. Symptoms of exposure include headache, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, malaise, confusion, anemia, jaundice, convulsions, and coma.
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/naphthal.html
http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/NA/naphthalene.html
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_ChemUse.jsp?Rec_Id=PC120#ChemID
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC35114
Out of all the possible health hazards of Eagle 20, it is the fact that it is a endocrine disruptor that is the most concerning. Endocrine disruptors are chemicals that interfere with endocrine (the hormone system) in animals and humans even at extremely low doses. These disruptions can cause cancerous tumors, birth defects, and developmental disorders such as learning disabilities, severe attention deficit disorder, cognitive and brain development problems, deformations of the body, sexual development problems, feminizing of males, and masculine effects on females. Not only that, but if a developing fetus is exposed to and affected by endocrine disruptors, it can take decades for adverse effects to manifest. Even more disturbing, it appears that the effects of endocrine disruptors are passed from generation to generation through epigenetic modification of our DNA. Some research indicates that the effects are trans-generational, meaning that the hazardous health effects can be passed on for multiple generations. So not only can exposure to products like Eagle 20 cause hazardous health effects in you, but they can also cause hazardous health effects in your children, and possibly even you grand-children, decades after you were initially exposed.
http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/qendoc.asp
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine/index.cfm
So this leads us to the next question - how long does Eagle 20 remain chemically active? The answer: a hell of a lot longer than two weeks. According to EPA data, a single half life for Myclobutanil is between 61 and 71 days. Even at one full year between 29 and 33% of the Myclobutanil residue remained when tested. Indoors, where there is less UV light, and no weather to speed the break-down of the chemical, this will be even longer. So not only Eagle 20 still chemically active two week later - it is still active YEARS later. Every time you walk into your grow room, you are likely exposing yourself, since I highly doubt the Eagle 20 users on here wear protective gear for a full year when they enter their rooms after applying it. Also just because you are seeing the disease resurface within a few weeks after applications of Eagle 20 it does NOT mean the chemical is no longer active - in fact all that really means is you are probably breeding yourself some pesticide resistance mildew. Not only that but having the attitude of "well it hasn't gotten me sick so it must be fine" is so dangerous and irresponsible it is almost incomprehensible to me. Do you REALLY want to find out first-hand how much exposure of Eagle 20 it takes to get terminal cancer, or liver failure, or to give you kids birth defects, or any of the numerous, horrible other ways it can kill you?
http://www.epa.gov/espp/litstatus/effects/redleg-frog/myclobutanil/appendix-c.pdf
Finally, this brings us to the issues of resistance. Any pest, whether it be mildew or mites or whatever, will develop resistance to whatever pesticide is used again them repeatedly. This is one of the corner stones of proper Integrated Pest Management (IPM) and I am absolutely flooded that ANYONE claiming to know something about dealing with pests would claim that this problem does not exists. The arrogant, lazy, and down-right dangerous attitudes expressed on this thread are EXACTLY why mites and mildew are becoming more and more difficult to deal with. The vast majority of growers always uses the same pesticide for the same pest over, and over and over again, not even realizing they are shooting themselves in the foot by doing so. Pesticide resistant pests is a very real problem both in legit agriculture and in the cannabis community at large, and this thread is a great example of WHY so many people are ignorant about it. In fact, as Seamaiden already pointed out, it very clearly states on the Eagle 20 label that it WILL create resistant strain of mildew if used in excess (which is only 2-3 times a year). The University of Kentucky College of Agriculture has it's risk of resistance rated as "moderate." Here is the full list to check out (this is also a good read on proper pest management in turf grass and fungicide management in general).
So in conclusion: if you use Eagle 20 on cannabis, you very obviously lack the understanding and knowledge to properly use such a dangerous chemical, period. Eagle 20 is quite literally one of the most hazardous, toxic, and dangerous pesticides one can spray on their cannabis plants. General Rippers concerns are 100% accurate and valid, and if anything, were understated. One drop of this stuff really can give you cancer down the road - heck it can even give your kids cancer 30 years from now. Applying something like this so what is supposed to be medicine is absolutely insane.
I'm trying to be nice about this, but to you growers (especially supposed "medical" growers!!) that use Eagle 20: please stop using it. Seriously. Stop. You are poisoning yourself. You are poisoning the people who smoke your buds. You are poisoning the environment. You are poisoning future generations. You are breeding resistant strains of powdery mildew. Knock that shit off. It's bad for everyone, OK?
M
maestro
Guest
LOL NEED A HUG? DAMN :mad0233:
HHHMMMMMMNNNNN is it just me or does this sound like a guilty conscience being defensive? LMAO You go big boy lord of poison dank! lol
Remind me n everyone who cares about health never ever buy your meds...its all good. Better be tellin every client wazzz up cuz we get wind, you will be shut down....
Puff um up bro I got plenty clean smoke here...for me n to share!~
Sorry folks but if you are too lazy or ignorant to organically n safely control your show.......GIVE IT UP.....There are plenty of old hands been doing this forever got no problems using a simple neem
regiment...WTF there is no poison out there more effective that neem regularly for bugs or fungus.....in logic if greencure isn't workin for ya your not using it right..........use greencure as a last resort n neem + lil soap
at about 7cc/gallon weekly guys until the last two weeks before ya chop....voila wtf so hard about that? huh??????????????????????????????????????
glad Spains smart enough to care about the environment and tomorrow more than bugs n mold cuz America isn't...
I can respect everyones opinion even if some are dumb! Been part of this hobby over twenty years n I've seen it all...........lmao but I can't see spraying poison on anything ya smoke...no matter how I wrap my noodle around it.
Peace Love n smoke
most of all
RESPECT
even if you are wrong
G
GeneralRipper
- 93
- 18
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlSQAZEp3PA&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
Capulator
likes to smell trees.
Supporter
- 6,070
- 313
I drink eagle 20 every morning. I love the taste of that stuff. Gets me higher than the weed I saturate with it right before harvest.:animbong::poolparty:poolparty:poolparty:poolparty:poolparty
I have used eagle 20 once. After I tried everything else. Seriously, everything. I lost 2 harvests in a row to pm during that battle.
After treating the clones once, and cleaning the room and sulfur bombing every week, I have not seen pm again. When I sprayed I used a chemical respirator, and spraysuit, in a very well ventilated room. I did it as a last resort after researching it.
The best way to get around pm is to get your hands on a strain that has a resistance to it.
I am curious about the test though. I am going to spray a plant today that is going in to the flower room. If someone can point me to a place that will test it, then I will send it in at harvest. That should shed some light on this debate that has been raging for so long.
I have used eagle 20 once. After I tried everything else. Seriously, everything. I lost 2 harvests in a row to pm during that battle.
After treating the clones once, and cleaning the room and sulfur bombing every week, I have not seen pm again. When I sprayed I used a chemical respirator, and spraysuit, in a very well ventilated room. I did it as a last resort after researching it.
The best way to get around pm is to get your hands on a strain that has a resistance to it.
I am curious about the test though. I am going to spray a plant today that is going in to the flower room. If someone can point me to a place that will test it, then I will send it in at harvest. That should shed some light on this debate that has been raging for so long.
qupee
- 183
- 28
That would be a valuable service to the community. I hope someone can point you to an appropriate place for testing and that we all see the results.
The HC
- 93
- 6
Someone gives me cancer I give them AIDS.
The HC
- 93
- 6
There's a bunch in California. A lot only test potency though.
Here's one that checks safety.
http://www.scanalytical.com/
G
GeneralRipper
- 93
- 18
I also want too see some test results.
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