explosive growth in coco coir

[Cashmeh]

4x4 with 4 plants in 3.5 gallon airpots filled with coco coir, under a 600w HLG-600R. Midway through this grow I ran out of room and had to swap tents for a taller one. The tent is in a bedroom. There is a 6-inch input duct fan running 24x7. There is an AC-Infinity 6-inch exhaust fan blowing out at variable speeds depending on temp and humidity. There is no CO2. The plants are midway through 6th week of flower. I have a drip irrigation system doing drain to waste, currently at 7x daily.

Well ill for sure be interested in your weights. If you were using a 1000w led and C02 in that 4x4, if you were using good genetics, you could possibly max out at 2lbs. But since its 600w, and your not using c02, im very curious as to what your weights will be. Id say your growth rates are comparable to active hydro systems and not passive. Like I know your running drip which is passive, but your grow performs like my active system. I just dont understand how increasing the run off increases the growth rates. I also noticed your EC is way higher than mine. I veg at .5 ec and flower at 1.0 max. I also never drain my system, only top offs. Everything I put in, my plants consume. I monitor individual nutrient levels basically warming myself up for a Aquaponics trial one day.

Im not trying to talk down or up about your grow either. More less laying out all my available data for ya so we both can understand it all better. I have alot to learn apparently. . it just doesnt make sense how wasting nutrients can increase growth rates lol.. but it does.

 

[phxazcraig]

Well ill for sure be interested in your weights. If you were using a 1000w led and C02 in that 4x4, if you were using good genetics, you could possibly max out at 2lbs. But since its 600w, and your not using c02, im very curious as to what your weights will be. Id say your growth rates are comparable to active hydro systems and not passive. Like I know your running drip which is passive, but your grow performs like my active system. I just dont understand how increasing the run off increases the growth rates. I also noticed your EC is way higher than mine. I veg at .5 ec and flower at 1.0 max. I also never drain my system, only top offs. Everything I put in, my plants consume. I monitor individual nutrient levels basically warming myself up for a Aquaponics trial one day.

Im not trying to talk down or up about your grow either. More less laying out all my available data for ya so we both can understand it all better. I have alot to learn apparently. . it just doesnt make sense how wasting nutrients can increase growth rates lol.. but it does.

I base my yield estimate from comparison of how this crop looks compared to my last crop, in soil. I got 18 ounces of cure buds off that, and this crop is considerably denser. Time will tell. And I may be more lenient on bud definition than you in terms of how trimmed it is or larfy. For sure I'll have a lot of small flowers from low in the canopy and below. I figure will be good for making hash.

I have been doing all sorts of watering practices trying to tame my EC. The only thing that is working is to both increase frequency and amount overall, and lower input EC. I have a feeling something is just not being absorbed at all and just builds up. I wish I could analyze the runoff to see which NPK components are increasing in concentration. I have been getting some tip burn throughout flowering, and it's the worst - almost only - negative symptom I've seen. The amount of feeding is simply due to recommendations that I've been following. Seems those recommendations have been spot on, though I have no other coco grows to compare.

 

[Cashmeh]

Salifert RTKA Potassium Test Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0084CO4LC?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Phosphorus and Phosphate... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079HJQLVR?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

FUNSWTM 7 in 1 Aquarium Test Strips, Fish Tank Test Kit,Freshwater Saltwater Aquarium Water Test Kit to Detect pH Nitrite Nitrate Chlorine Carbonate Hardness (GH & KH) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08MZDLC15/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_SS8PJP5VASGV8SHSWBMD?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Npk indivual testing. This was my best purchase thus far when in regards to testing equipment. The potassium test sucks, the lower your levels the fast you will use it. Still gonna last me a while.

 

[Madmax]

Too high in nutrients will prevent water uptake.when my nutrient runoff exceeded my feed when first beginning to grow was told to flush with 1/4 strength nutes.and it took ages to get it down once i got it under the ppm i was feeding them i gave them normal dose but at a reduced ppm.now i dont go over 590ppm watering 3ltrs once a day in 4 gal.last 3 grows had no problems at all..

 

[phxazcraig]

Too high in nutrients will prevent water uptake.when my nutrient runoff exceeded my feed when first beginning to grow was told to flush with 1/4 strength nutes.and it took ages to get it down once i got it under the ppm i was feeding them i gave them normal dose but at a reduced ppm.now i dont go over 590ppm watering 3ltrs once a day in 4 gal.last 3 grows had no problems at all..

While everything else has gone pretty well with no problems, I continue to be outwitted when it comes to runoff - both amount and EC. I set up a new 30-gallon reservoir, and when I filled it, there was so much water pressure that it seems my pump was pumping double the amount of water. Or something. (Wish I had an inline flow meter.) Anyway, when the reservoir was full, a 25-second watering gave me more than 1 gallon of runoff (from 4 plants). So I reduced the watering times to 15 seconds, and the runoff was about right yesterday. Today the res is 60% full, and I have no runoff at all. Zero. I added 5 seconds back to each watering and ran a 5-second manual one to generate some runoff. All that runoff initially worked and reduced my EC, but it was like 75% runoff and unsustainable.

I've got my reservoir down to about 1000EC after the first day or so. By adding buckets of RO water to dilute the EC. I'm wondering if I should use cal-mag'd RO water instead, but right now I just want to stop the tip burn I see on the sugar leaves.

 

[phxazcraig]

While everything else has gone pretty well with no problems, I continue to be outwitted when it comes to runoff - both amount and EC. I set up a new 30-gallon reservoir, and when I filled it, there was so much water pressure that it seems my pump was pumping double the amount of water. Or something. (Wish I had an inline flow meter.) Anyway, when the reservoir was full, a 25-second watering gave me more than 1 gallon of runoff (from 4 plants). So I reduced the watering times to 15 seconds, and the runoff was about right yesterday. Today the res is 60% full, and I have no runoff at all. Zero.

Found out why my runoff disappeared. I have a leak in my drain for one of the pots, and the bottom saucer was full. Attempting repairs with silicone seal.

 

[DanC520]

Found out why my runoff disappeared. I have a leak in my drain for one of the pots, and the bottom saucer was full. Attempting repairs with silicone seal.

Make sure its draining properly. I’ve found if something inhibiting the drainage, leaks can be exacerbated. One of mine was backing up, then leaking below. Went into drain bucket and messed with it on that end. Freed up an air bubble or something and leak basically went away. Path of least resistance and all that.

 

[phxazcraig]

Make sure its draining properly. I’ve found if something inhibiting the drainage, leaks can be exacerbated. One of mine was backing up, then leaking below. Went into drain bucket and messed with it on that end. Freed up an air bubble or something and leak basically went away. Path of least resistance and all that.

I fixed it. With gobs of silicone seal.

 

[phxazcraig]

Salifert RTKA Potassium Test Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0084CO4LC?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Phosphorus and Phosphate... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079HJQLVR?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

FUNSWTM 7 in 1 Aquarium Test Strips, Fish Tank Test Kit,Freshwater Saltwater Aquarium Water Test Kit to Detect pH Nitrite Nitrate Chlorine Carbonate Hardness (GH & KH) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08MZDLC15/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_SS8PJP5VASGV8SHSWBMD?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Npk indivual testing. This was my best purchase thus far when in regards to testing equipment. The potassium test sucks, the lower your levels the fast you will use it. Still gonna last me a while.

Cool, thanks. Looking closely at them. Wondering about a test for cal/mag.

 

[phxazcraig]

Too high in nutrients will prevent water uptake.when my nutrient runoff exceeded my feed when first beginning to grow was told to flush with 1/4 strength nutes.and it took ages to get it down once i got it under the ppm i was feeding them i gave them normal dose but at a reduced ppm.now i dont go over 590ppm watering 3ltrs once a day in 4 gal.last 3 grows had no problems at all..

Based on elimination of tip burn on new growth, I may have my EC down far enough. Somewhere between 1100 input and the 1400 output I got today. Have some nasty looking leaves, but all on top where brightest light hits them - and possibly all from one plant. As mentioned in the thread, the lights are very close - less than 12 inches to some leaves. Even with the power turned down, I think the LED's damage the leaves at that range. The leaves look like a big cal/mag deficiency, but only on the sunlit parts of the affected leaves.

Buds are getting big. They seemed to stop growing new calyxes for a bit, until I turned the light down. Now they are growing again, and sometimes I wonder if I'm foxtailing, but I think the buds are just growing, a lot. It's easy to over look that the buds are developing down below the top of the canopy, and there is a lot of weight accumulating there. My grow is so leafy you have to stick your face in the branches. The canopy is so dark you need a flashlight to look under it now.

 

[Cashmeh]

Cool, thanks. Looking closely at them. Wondering about a test for cal/mag.

Yea imma find one today and ill let ya know. Or vice versa ;)

 

[Clearbluesky]

This is my 2nd try at Coco and this time it has been explosive growth. From seed plant is 61 days old and started flowering at day 30, right now I'm feeding 3 times a day with calmagic and maxibloom in RO water. EC-0.8 PH-5.9 in a 5x5 tent with 700 par LEDs. It's a Barney's farm auto LSD. Will do another coco run I like it so far.

 

[Madmax]

Based on elimination of tip burn on new growth, I may have my EC down far enough. Somewhere between 1100 input and the 1400 output I got today. Have some nasty looking leaves, but all on top where brightest light hits them - and possibly all from one plant. As mentioned in the thread, the lights are very close - less than 12 inches to some leaves. Even with the power turned down, I think the LED's damage the leaves at that range. The leaves look like a big cal/mag deficiency, but only on the sunlit parts of the affected leaves.

Buds are getting big. They seemed to stop growing new calyxes for a bit, until I turned the light down. Now they are growing again, and sometimes I wonder if I'm foxtailing, but I think the buds are just growing, a lot. It's easy to over look that the buds are developing down below the top of the canopy, and there is a lot of weight accumulating there. My grow is so leafy you have to stick your face in the branches. The canopy is so dark you need a flashlight to look under it now.

Going by your last pic they dont look too bad mate..150ppm over is aceptable but once it gets over that range you will run into builup issues and it will take a hell of alot of feed to get it back down and you will b constantly doing this to keep it under.id like to see you add some perlite to the coco nxt grow. i use 70/30 cyco lite and added chunky perlite to that and salt buidup all but vanished.but im not going over 600ppm using canna classic dtw one feed per day.checkout @Aqua Man has some very informative threads on how to water coco...

 

[Clearbluesky]

Yes I use 70/30 coco and perlite in a 3 gallon air pot, thanks for reply.

 

[phxazcraig]

Going by your last pic they dont look too bad mate..150ppm over is aceptable but once it gets over that range you will run into builup issues and it will take a hell of alot of feed to get it back down and you will b constantly doing this to keep it under.id like to see you add some perlite to the coco nxt grow. i use 70/30 cyco lite and added chunky perlite to that and salt buidup all but vanished.but im not going over 600ppm using canna classic dtw one feed per day.checkout @Aqua Man has some very informative threads on how to water coco...

I use a buffered coco mix from Roots Organics. Not sure why you think it has no perlite, but it does.

I water 7x daily now, with runoff every time, and yet my collective EC rises about 30 points every feeding. I'd say your EC sounds about right to keep it down. I've been lower than my charts wanted since beginning of flower, but even with 1100 input, I've seen output get up to 800 points higher. When it gets really high, I manually flush the plants from the reservoir with an extra feeding 2x or 3x as long as the others, until output comes out within 100 points or less (50ppm). That results in up to 7 gallons of runoff, from four 3.5 gallon pots.

 

[Cashmeh]

Amazon.com

Click for mag test kit


I just bought this. Im pretty sure instead of topping off with ph up and micro for 4 weeks i should have been alternating calmag and not using so much ph up and micro. Live and learn. . every grow gets better my friend, but then something else stupid happens. We lack experience, or at least I do. Perhaps at our 2 year mark with these systems we will have the shit figured out by then

 

[phxazcraig]

Amazon.com

Click for mag test kit


I just bought this. Im pretty sure instead of topping off with ph up and micro for 4 weeks i should have been alternating calmag and not using so much ph up and micro. Live and learn. . every grow gets better my friend, but then something else stupid happens. We lack experience, or at least I do. Perhaps at our 2 year mark with these systems we will have the shit figured out by then

When I mix up my nutes, I start with RO water, add silica blast, wait an hour, add cal/mag, then all my nutes. At the end, my pH is usually 5.9 and I add about 2 tablespoons of pH UP to get the batch to 6.0 or 6.1. (6.0 is my goal.) Once in the reservoir, a Bluelab controller add pH down as needed to keep pH to 6.0. Every now and then I'll notice the res drops to 5.9, and I then add a capful of pH UP.

I found out something interesting this morning. By 11:30 I should have had runoff in my runoff bucket from the 3am feeding, and the 10am. But nothing was there. I manually watered another 10 seconds. Still nothing. So I opened the tent to look more closely and turned the pump to On. Almost no water came out for quite a while - more than 10 seconds. Not only that, but one plant was getting a lot less water than the other three. (That pot had much higher runoff EC too.)

What's happening is that my pump is having a lot of issues watering at the same rates once the reservoir gets low. I think it is related to my anti-siphon fix - the hole I poked in the feed tube. This means that once the pump shuts off, there is no siphon and the water drains back into the res on that side and down to the plants on the other side (of the reservoir wall). And thus the pump has to refill the empty line up to the top of the reservoir before any water starts coming out the other end. When the reservoir is full, there is less than an inch of that tube to fill. But with the reservoir almost empty, the pump needs to push about 2 feet of water up to the top of the reservoir to start with.

This means the entire pumping system I have is really unsuitable because I can't get the same amount of water out of it with every feeding. I'll bet the amount of water coming out is 10x different between full and empty reservoir levels. I need a system that waters in amounts, not 'effort per time'. Means I really do have to manually keep an eye on things every day and can't take a few days off for a trip or some such. Wish I had an answer to this, aside from not using tall reservoirs. I'm thinking about engineering the reservoir to not hold the pump, but instead drain into a shallow reservoir holding a pump, with the pump's water level determined by a float somehow. I've even speculated on having the pump mounted on some sort of semi-floating submersible platform that rises and falls with the water level, always keeping the pump at the same depth.

 

[jguit]

Why not just get a better pump?

 

[phxazcraig]

Why not just get a better pump?

I wanted a positive-displacement pump, but apparently they don't make them to sit inside reservoirs. I don't know what a better pump is. I just ordered the one recommended by cocoforcannabis. It;s a 400gph impeller style pump here: https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Subm...674b4dae6962d&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl

I'm looking into flow meters, which seem workable, but haven't found just what I need. I'd like something I could program to shut off a pump once a certain amount of flow went through on each watering.

 

[jguit]

Look into self priming RV pumps. Plenty of pressure to work with a manifold.

Stay away from the 'FloJet' brand. Got 2 duds that didnt deliver anywhere near the rated pressure.