Finally! An organic pH up--Humax

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Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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Great little education, between saltr and that post #19, leadsled. I'd briefly looked for Diamond Nectar, couldn't find it. I guess now I know what. One thing about the Ful-Power, on the site they don't give dosing rates. At $65/gal list price, I'd kinda like to know where it's at on the ROI scale. Girls may love it, but after a certain point, do I need it?

No worries on the hijacks, either, I'm here to learn.
 
S

saltr

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Thanks for that info leadsled! I talked to someone at a lab by Davis who was under the impression that testing considerations aside, the decision to pull fulvic was almost purely political; certainly hope that things get figured out soon so we fan finally get some accurate labels!

I just got off the phone with BioAg and spoke with a very informative and nice lady. The Ful-Power will certainly lower pH, although she didn't know about the HumiSolve/TM-7. Considering the HumiSolve is still 12% fulvic, I'd imagine it lowers pH as well. BioAg's R&D guy is out at a show, but I'll update when I hear back.

Here are BioAg's data sheets:
Ful-Power:
HumiSolve:
TM-7: .

Guessing that they will all lower pH, considering composition and price, it seems like the TM-7 is definitely the way to go; slightly lower fulvic (10.5%) but with micronutes. Price wise, it seems like the solids (HumiSolve and TM-7) are lower priced per dose, the only consideration is whether or not the 10% of insolubility of the powders would outweigh the price difference. Also, the BioAg rep mentioned that the Ful-Power is more stable with other nutrients compared to the HumiSolve/TM-7, but I'm not sure why; I'll check with R&D man when we speak. Looks like I'll be probably be going with the TM-7 for fulvic/humic, or the Ful-Power if the stability issue is serious.

Now I'm back to finding a non-synthetic pH-up. Still waiting on TK for the potassium silicate overload advice. Humic12 seems like a good solution if it's just humic acid, but I can't find anywhere to buy this. I did find the Humax at a pretty solid 5 gallon price: () and it's also a 12% humic acid solution; likely the same as Humic12? ...I just really wish I could find something from BioAg for pH-up, as their methods seem super reliable and trustworthy.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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I'm using the JHBiotech product, just for an FYI.
 
motherlode

motherlode

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hmm i never have to use ph up, am I the only one?
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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Glad the info was helpful. I am generally cutting out the silica after 4 weeks of flowering . By then the branches have possibly absorbed plenty. I do know dynagrow recommends higher application rate at first then lower it for maintenance application rate.

Still like to hear more from Jk or any other facts on the matter.

I am planning on using the bioag fulvic once I run out of what I got on hand. (old f1 from AN, old flavor fulv from HN)

I found the bioAG FULVIC goes for about $47.99 + 10 shipping on ebay.

NOTE THE PRODUCT IS LISTED AS humic but is a fulvic acid. They are located and shipping in CA. few other stores online if you search.

The 8% fulvic I been using has a Application rate of 1-5 ml per gallon for root application. Not bad at all, foliar will go ever further. IMHO a good ROI.

More info on Humic 12
ENP Inc is the distributor of the humic12.

humic-logo.thumbnail.jpg

Humic 12 works as a complexing agent when formulated with trace elements. This helps unlock nutrients such as phosphorus and potash, making them more readily available to the plant and improves uptake and availability of micronutrients to the plant. Humic 12 increases cation exchange capacity at the root zone for better uptake of nutrients. It will condition the soil, helping provide a friendly environment for soil microbes improving seed germination and root development. Humic 12 acts as a buffering agent for soils. This reduces phytoxic effects of harsh fertilizers and chemicals and provides activation for weed control products.

Humic 12 is 12% humic 2.4% fulvic and 30% carbon.

The Humax also looks like is a contentrated product. (12% humic 3%fulvic) Looks very similar to humic 12 .

I try to determine the way it is made and then the % of ingredient. I started looking at other sources of concentrated products and found the humic12.

Comparing the % of product and application rate to determine the most cost effective solution of a quality product.

few products and there ph#

I know from experience of checking my res while adding each product. I then ses how it effect ph and ec.

humic12.jpg


fulvic.jpg


OOPS Screwed up the pic. not sure of % of humate bloom. Just wanted to show how anothe rbrand of humic raised ph.
humatebloom.jpg


another product I know that raises ph is rhizotonic by canna. Not organic and not cheap.

humic ph raise, fulvic (real fulvic) ph down.

Have you guys tried Earth Juice Ph up?

I am still learning about the soil food web but my understanding is that ph mangement is not as critical in a 100% organic growing medium.

I do not own any ph up. usually have not needed it, unless I add too much fulvic (or use too much ph down like when using a aero cloner).

Like others probably do, I like to let the ph drift within the safe range for the medium, rather than get anal about a exact ph number.

Glad people are sharing what works for them and what they are finding out. Really appreciate it.

I am not trying to promote any brand just help to share what is most cost effective and works.
 
opt1c

opt1c

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i'm growing some organics with ph7 tap water run through a carbon/sediment filter.... not adjusting ph and feeding with plain water or a guano tea; so far i've had no ph issues that i can see on the plants growth so far. plants are in an extended veg with a nute free mix of light warrior, perlite, and earth worm casings.
 
PorchMonkey4Life

PorchMonkey4Life

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If you want a organic Ph down that will drop your ph like a rock..........I used to add a capfull of Alaskan fish emulsion bloom was my ph down for a few years....Its not thick or smelly like the veg formula.....Its like waterIsh.no real strong smell!!

They use some kinda organic phosphor to dissolve the fish .....i was told making it acidic as shit

as for P silcate......Buy yellow bottles brand......there silicate is thick like the old Barricade from advanced nutes used to be,,,,,a cap or 2 will lift a 50 gallons rez !!

stop using the silicate the last 20-15 days before chop, that my plain water feed time for soil,,,,,,so i dont ph my ro water , cuz i dont care about plant uptake during detox the last 14 days
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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I broke my pH probe last night, GAHHHH!!! In any event, before I did that, I pH'd the Humax--a solid 12.2. My sourcing for Humax is $13/gal.
 
S

saltr

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This thread has been exceptionally helpful, much thanks to Seamaiden for getting the ball rolling!

Just got off the phone with BioAg's R&D guy who was incredibly informative. Evidently, 1g of the HumiSolve in 10L water will return a pH of ~10. Also, he mentioned that HumiSolve is indeed stable in our applications, it's when you start mixing pounds of dry chems that problems can arise. The only caution he advised is to ensure that I don't use more than the recommended dosage when adjusting pH. So, i'll probably stick with BioAg over the Humax or Humic12 and use the Ful-Power at 5-10mL/gallon and then use a HumiSolve solution at ~.2g/gallon for pH-up. I'm going with the HumiSolve over TM-7 so that I keep micronutes out of my pH adjustments, using MicroBlast as necessary.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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Nice footwork on your part, saltr. I'm impressed (some might say too easily so...)!
 
justiceman

justiceman

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In my experience I like to use Humega from Organicare. It's about 30 bucks a gallon and serves as a great PH up for me. I keep the doses within the recommended amount and it really helps out. I also use Silica as a PH up as well.

Hey ledslead If my humega doesn't raise the PH enough or I don't feel like using it I use Earth Juice PH up. It is merely potassium bicarbonate.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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Good to know you can also use Humega. Would you happen to know the pH, out of the bottle?
 
B

BudGood

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I've always used Silica Blast for pH up and molasses for down, but thanks for the tip!

Yeah, that ^^^. I found out one day that silica shot my pH up bigtime, since then I've always used it as an organic up. I'll have to check out the Humax though. Cheers! :character0035:
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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I'm not sure I'd want to have them still taking in silica late in flower. I keep forgetting to check how much the Humax changes EC/ppm's.
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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Justiceman, thanks for sharing.

Anyone know a good place to get the humisolve/bioag fulvic online?

Horticulture source is the cheapest but they seem to overcharge for shipping.
Kaylx has it but they do not have good reviews.

thanks
 
justiceman

justiceman

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Good to know you can also use Humega. Would you happen to know the pH, out of the bottle?
Sorry I don't know what it's pH out of the bottle is. I'll have to get back to you on that one.

Justiceman, thanks for sharing.

Anyone know a good place to get the humisolve/bioag fulvic online?

Horticulture source is the cheapest but they seem to overcharge for shipping.
Kaylx has it but they do not have good reviews.

thanks
No prob man. I've been searching for bio ag as well. Came up with pretty much the same sites as you. I agree that Horticulture source charges way to much for shipping although I admit shipping liquid's is costly. Either way I'm thinking about just asking my hydro store to special order some. I bet they would do the same for you too.
 
Mud Man

Mud Man

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Humic = brown/purple color liq
Fulvic = gold color liquid

i use BIO NOVA citric acid for down.


Excellent thread
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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I got mine straight from BioAg: .

Thanks saltr. There prices are not too bad since it includes shipping.

The BioAg is in. Clear golden fulvic. pic and ph below.
fulpower.jpg



I noticed Yellow Bottle humic, humic 12 and liquid humus all have a very slight ammonia smell.

Here is another liquid humic 15%.
Liquid Humus by Technaflora. black sludge like humic12. When testing the ph I noticed a slight ammonia smell to it.
Called to check into it and the product is not supposed to be bad. Was told the ammonia smell is fine.
pic and ph
liquid_humus.jpg



so I wonder if that is true or not. BioAg does state that liquid humic can go bad easier than humisolve.

Wondering if anyone else notices a ammonia smell to the humic acid or whether there is alot of bad liquid humic out there.

Seamaiden, justiceman anyone that has a humic product, mind taking a whiff and sharing the results?


My nose doesnt lie, Ammonia smell seems bad to me. (like in compost tea) )Local hydro shop stated the liquid humus product is good and ammonia smell to humic is normal. B.S. or trying to liquidate bad product?

I always figure better safe than sorry, but then again want to double check I am not worried about nothing to be concerned about.

Appreciate any feedback. I am still leaning toward the humisolve once the humic12 is toast.
 
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