First time grower, have some questions

[elusiveshame]

Dude dim your lights and they will grow. They all showing light stress especially the one center right.
Cut back to like 20% and give it a week. Guarantee you see vast improvement in growth and vigor.

Keep at it you got this!

Reduce the light by 20%, or put it at 20% (first setting)?

I just reduced it by 20%, so it's at 60% strength now. If it's recommended to drop it less, I'll do that.

Thanks!

 

[Lockebox]

When I'm setting up the media for the girls I use Roots Organic Original soil. It has Mycorrhizae in it but I usually mix in a few scoopfuls of Xtreme Gardening MYKOS before I transplant at the bottom of the hole so that the beneficial bacteria is at root level.

The only bloom booster I use is Bud Candy. Other than that it's GH Florinova Grow or Bloom, some Hormex and some Silicate.

Use bud candy too. Good stuff

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

Reduce the light by 20%, or put it at 20% (first setting)?

I just reduced it by 20%, so it's at 60% strength now. If it's recommended to drop it less, I'll do that.

Thanks!

A PAR reading or LUX would better help. Vegging plants don't really need much light. I usually aim for 250-300 PPFD. Some strains can take more. The Ethos GMOxZkittlez I've been growing can really take like. I was running 550 PPFD during veg for those girls and they were loving it.

 

[Buzzy12]

In my opinion, light stress is a difficult problem to diagnose. What light are you using? What height is it at? Just for reference, a sunny day provides 1500-2000 ppfd. Seedlings are generally 100-300 ppfd, Veg is 600-1000 ppfd, Flower is 1000+ ppfd. Can go all the way up to 2000 ppfd if you're pumping C02. A lot of factors here to determine if your plants are getting sufficient light. The light is the main source of food for the plants. The more light you can give the plants, the more they will grow.

This is a great article, there are many out there. Dr. Bugbee is mentioned in the article and is somebody everybody should learn about, very intelligent man.

Optimal Light Intensity – Mammoth Lighting

We have designed and manufactured the most intense LED grow lights by applying the latest advances in high efficiency, solid-state lighting technology. Up to 2000 PPFD matching the sun's intensity. Mammoth recommends to target 600 – 900 ppfd in Veg and 1100 – 1500ppfd in flower. Higher for...

mammothlighting.com

 

[elusiveshame]

VS2000 LED that came with the vivosun 4x2 tent. I can get the light height this evening when I get home.

 

[RootsRuler]

 

[Buzzy12]

18-24" is the recommended mounting height for that light. It is a strong Veg light, but I doubt you're giving them too much light if you're at 80% power at close to a foot and half to two feet away. Last year was my first indoor grow, this is my 13th year growing Cannabis, been learning and growing since I was 18. I had a couple of ViparSpectra 1200 series lights and they were great Veg lights, but I felt like my plants did not reach their full potential because that light lacks in the red spectrum similarly to the light you are using. I would strongly recommend looking into getting a better Flower light that's high in the red spectrum if you are looking to maximize the genetic potential of the strains you are growing.

 

[Buzzy12]

And a lot of charts can be fairly cautious from what I've seen especially that one @RootsRuler . I just found a DLI calculator online. I'm running 1000-1500 ppfd in my Flower room for 12 hours a day. That's 43-65 DLI and my plants are thriving, I'm in week 4 of Flower. I have a CO2 bucket in there, no system pumping CO2, yet...

Light and water drive growth more than anything else.

 

[RootsRuler]

It's more a guideline. As you know each cultivar has it's own wants and needs. Some like a lot of light intensity and some don't.

 

[elusiveshame]

So the light is hanging about 13" from the top of the tent, and about 26" away from the tops of the plants currently.

I didn't get a manual with the light (the whole package didn't come with much paperwork), so I didn't really know what setting to set the light on. At first I had it on the first or second setting, and then I turned it up to 80% (or what I thought was 80%). Looking at the official sites manual, it says the light/dim settings should be 25%, 50%, 75%, 100% (https://image.next.vivosun.com/file-asset/file/a079381994cf51b22a46d1524a2c4cd6.pdf), but I have 5 light settings, not 4. After doing some googling, I found another site that listed 5 dimmer settings: 40%, 50%, 60%, 80%, 100% (https://www.growpackage.com/products/vivosun-vs2000-led-grow-light-with-samsung-lm301h-diodes), which seems more like what I have.

So, I did have it at 80% (I was figuring 20/40/60/80/100%), but now I have it at 60%.

@Buzzy12 I'll look into a better light after my first harvest. I jumped on this tent setup because it basically came with everything, and it was on sale/I got a discount on Amazon for like 20 or 30% off, so I figured why not give it a shot.

Also, my tent has some of these stupid velcro panels that goes over these silly viewports. There seems to be some light that escapes the tent through it because the velcro panels are terrible, as is putting in a viewport (especially 2 on the bottom, of all places). Is that going to be an issue when I flip to 12/12? It's in a fairly dark corner of the basement, and no lights are directly above it. My camera doesn't pick up any light after the LED light shuts off, so I'm not sure if any light is actually making it in there and it's just not strong enough for the camera to see. I could hang blackout curtains around the tent (it sits under a tall shelf, so I can easily drape it over without much fuss) if I need to, though I'd prefer to not to if I don't have to.

Next post will have some pics

 

[elusiveshame]

First pic is from this morning (10/12):

Top right plant has a leaf with discoloration - I'm going to blame that discoloration on the fact it's being smashed up against the tent wall when the negative pressure takes over. This is also the plant that I topped too low. There's a tiny stem coming from the cut spot, but it's being shadowed by the 2 stalks on that node. Unsure if I can LST this plant as the stalks are very thick and kind of stubby. I feel like I stunted this plant pretty hard with the topping. It did grow some height (it was at 8" this morning, up ~1/4" since yesterday).

Top left grew to over 9" this morning. The other 2 are about 8.25" - 8.5"

Pic 2, after feeding:

Fed with 1/2 of recommended dosage from the fox farm guide. Tested the ph, and even though my tap water is slightly higher than 7, the nutrients brought it down to just under the 6.5 range (looked like a light yellow pee/Mt. Dew color), so I didn't need to balance it any.

It was also at this time I saw @FuriousStyles comment about dimming my lights. Prior to today, it's been running at 80%, so I dialed it to 60%.

Pic 3 (taken a few minutes ago):

My garden ties + binder clips came in this afternoon, so I started doing LST on the non-topped plants. Right now I only did the main stem at the top. I'm not sure if I should train fan leaves or not, as the lower branches aren't long enough to do so. I'm not sure if I can even do LST on the top right plant. The bottom right plant I should start doing LST to as well. I think I'll try that in the morning, though.

As a note: the dimming the light brought the temp down about 5 degrees and boosted the humidity up by 10%. Even adjusting my exhaust fan did very little to affect it, but I'll just turn the pellet stove on tonight to make sure the tent doesn't dip below 70F-ish.

 

[Buzzy12]

Vivosun does not make high quality products, one of my tents is their 4×4 and I recently ordered a humidifier from them. Already ordered another one and will be sending it back when the new one arrives. It turns off by itself all the time and has to be readjusted every time it gets turned back on. Not impressed with that company. AC Infinity and HLG on the other hand, I'm very impressed with. Less heat, less light, more humidity, means the plants will drink less and grow slower, just saying...

 

[Buzzy12]

You can download an app on your phone to read ppfd. They're not 100% accurate, but they will give you a ballpark number. For my lights it seems to be pretty close to what I would expect it to be according to the PAR/PPFD maps for the lights.

I use PPFD Meter-Grow Light Meter

 

[elusiveshame]

You can download an app on your phone to read ppfd. They're not 100% accurate, but they will give you a ballpark number. For my lights it seems to be pretty close to what I would expect it to be according to the PAR/PPFD maps for the lights.

I use PPFD Meter-Grow Light Meter

Just snagged the app. Had to pay for the LED full spectrum mode, but I’ll post the results shortly.

 

[elusiveshame]

In my opinion, light stress is a difficult problem to diagnose. What light are you using? What height is it at? Just for reference, a sunny day provides 1500-2000 ppfd. Seedlings are generally 100-300 ppfd, Veg is 600-1000 ppfd, Flower is 1000+ ppfd. Can go all the way up to 2000 ppfd if you're pumping C02. A lot of factors here to determine if your plants are getting sufficient light. The light is the main source of food for the plants. The more light you can give the plants, the more they will grow.

This is a great article, there are many out there. Dr. Bugbee is mentioned in the article and is somebody everybody should learn about, very intelligent man.

Optimal Light Intensity – Mammoth Lighting

We have designed and manufactured the most intense LED grow lights by applying the latest advances in high efficiency, solid-state lighting technology. Up to 2000 PPFD matching the sun's intensity. Mammoth recommends to target 600 – 900 ppfd in Veg and 1100 – 1500ppfd in flower. Higher for...

mammothlighting.com

So after testing with the app you suggested, I'm getting around 500 ppfd at the top of the plants on the setting I had it on earlier today (80%), so I just switched it back. While I switched it back, I also did some more LST'ing. I'll snap a pic in the morning when I do a little more / adjust what's there.

 

[Buzzy12]

I never had to pay for any LED full spectrum upgrade, it was free at the time I downloaded. If you're around 500 PPFD and going by the recommended heights and power settings for your light, I don't see how they're possibly getting too much light...

 

[PipeCarver]

Just got done watering. I watered slowly - some of the soil still puffed up, but once it settled and I gave it some time, it started getting damp, so I continued watering and all looks well.

I used 50% nutrients, and between the 4 pots, they took a little under a gallon each. I could probably add in more, but I don’t want to risk over watering. Some spots along the edges are dry, but trying to get the edges in fabric pots seems to get more on the floor.

I’ll post pics later on tonight

Hi, "but I don’t want to risk over watering" impossible to do...over watering is when you water when they don't need it over and over again. Giving it water to saturate then drain to dry you can't really over water unless of course there is no drainage or your giving them gallons too much too often.

Saturate let sit for a minute or 2 until water on the top has disappeared then flood it again until the water disappears then flood it again until you're sure everything is wet. In the heat of summer I'll flood them until they are fully saturated then 3-4-5 hrs later I'll come along and water/ feed them again slowly until I see liquid coming out the bottom again just to be sure the whole pot is wet.


I'll sometime if in a hurry and I don't have time I'll flood and let the runoff sit in the trays instead of wetvacing it up and let the plants suck up the runoff. Then when I come back later I'll check, if there's still water in the trays I'll suck that out but usually they suck the water all up.

 

[FuriousStyles]

It was also at this time I saw @FuriousStyles comment about dimming my lights. Prior to today, it's been running at 80%, so I dialed it to 60%.

As a note: the dimming the light brought the temp down about 5 degrees and boosted the humidity up by 10%. Even adjusting my exhaust fan did very little to affect it, but I'll just turn the pellet stove on tonight to make sure the tent doesn't dip below 70F-ish.

Check it out. People can give you numbers and it wont mean a thing if you can not read your plant.
Like I heard someone say, "you can know all about paint and brushes, and canvas, that doesnt make you an artist"
You got this bro, cut the lights back to 25% power and watch your plants start to thrive. Learn!

 

[Buzzy12]

Healthy plants will never grow faster with less light. That makes no sense at all... You can give them too much, but that's not the case here if the PPFD is around 500

Do not keep changing your environment constantly, the plants don't handle that too well inside. Read multiple different sources of information and make the best decisions you can with the information available to you. Which isn't easy when there's a lot of conflicting information...

@PipeCarver is spot on with what he's saying about overwatering. If you do it right you cannot overwater. The only way you would overwater is if you are not letting the plants dry back enough. Soil = heavy + infrequently, Coco = light + frequently. There is plenty of great information online about how to properly water soil. The professors I learned from about soil science at Rutgers University confirmed everything I've learned prior to hearing it directly from them.

 

[elusiveshame]

Hi, "but I don’t want to risk over watering" impossible to do...over watering is when you water when they don't need it over and over again. Giving it water to saturate then drain to dry you can't really over water unless of course there is no drainage or your giving them gallons too much too often.

Saturate let sit for a minute or 2 until water on the top has disappeared then flood it again until the water disappears then flood it again until you're sure everything is wet. In the heat of summer I'll flood them until they are fully saturated then 3-4-5 hrs later I'll come along and water/ feed them again slowly until I see liquid coming out the bottom again just to be sure the whole pot is wet.


I'll sometime if in a hurry and I don't have time I'll flood and let the runoff sit in the trays instead of wetvacing it up and let the plants suck up the runoff. Then when I come back later I'll check, if there's still water in the trays I'll suck that out but usually they suck the water all up.

This is pretty relieving for me, so thank you.

Check it out. People can give you numbers and it wont mean a thing if you can not read your plant.
Like I heard someone say, "you can know all about paint and brushes, and canvas, that doesnt make you an artist"
You got this bro, cut the lights back to 25% power and watch your plants start to thrive. Learn!

I appreciate what you're saying, but I still don't fully understand. Can you point out where there's light stress in my pics? I'm not sure what to look for in that regard.

Healthy plants will never grow faster with less light. That makes no sense at all... You can give them too much, but that's not the case here if the PPFD is around 500

Do not keep changing your environment constantly, the plants don't handle that too well inside. Read multiple different sources of information and make the best decisions you can with the information available to you. Which isn't easy when there's a lot of conflicting information...

@PipeCarver is spot on with what he's saying about overwatering. If you do it right you cannot overwater. The only way you would overwater is if you are not letting the plants dry back enough. Soil = heavy + infrequently, Coco = light + frequently. There is plenty of great information online about how to properly water soil. The professors I learned from about soil science at Rutgers University confirmed everything I've learned prior to hearing it directly from them.

I've never really been much of a gardener, and never really had anyone who could show me the basics, so I've been solely going by things I've read online, youtube videos, and now this forum. And while there's lots of great information, sometimes it just doesn't click until I can see/feel it in person.

Anyway, here's a pic this morning. I did some more LST'ing, so hopefully I'm doing okay with it.

So, from what I'm experiencing/seeing, training topped plants is a ton easier than non-topped in regards to getting the bud sites out from under the foliage.

Think it would be too late to top the 2 left plants? I plan on flipping at the end of the month to a 12/12 cycle. Would those 2 recover fast enough and would it be worth it at this point, or just ride it out?