B
Buddy: My bad, I totally typed that up wrong. I was trying to say: Even the manufacturer says you shouldn't be exposed to them for long (4 hours like you say) and imagine how that's compounded by a sealed room, where the concentrations would be higher since you're not getting any fresh air. Sorry, I skipped the actual train of my thought. And the strip was in there two days and the colonized the whole pot next to it and were starting to build webs. I am not saying they didn't kill them in your are, just that they're useless in SoCal.
.
Yeah, ok. I've been reading and reading the responses in this thread and was debating, do I respond to this one, to that one?Who says using toxic chemicals outside is bad when done properly.
I think this whole line of logic is wrong. You arent killing the planet by properly using small amounts of pesticides PROPERLY. Thats left wing BS.
Do you drive a car?
Take the bus?
Buy groceries at the store?
......the list goes on and on......
we all contribute to the problems of our ecosystem. But saying using pesticides on outdoor MJ will be contributing to the "downfall of our fragile ecosystem" is a bit of a reach...IMHO. Everybody that uses pesticides doesnt do so irresponsibly.
Aaahhh! That's where the disconnect is happening, now I see it! That's the caveat, Buddy, you just said it yourself. IF YOU KILL THEM ALL.Thats what folks are saying is a problem. Using one product adds to resistance....
I still cant see it. If you kill them ALL......then how do you pass along resistance?
Yeah, ok. I've been reading and reading the responses in this thread and was debating, do I respond to this one, to that one?
The angle from which you're hitting this is totally reminding me of the debate over whether or not one should be riding a motorcycle. And to me it's a matter of calculated risks. I can calculate my risk riding fairly accurately. However, with many of the pesticides we're discussing here, the calculations can not be made so accurately. But I get what you're saying and to a large degree have to agree, those are salient questions and we can't disconnect ourselves from them simply because they don't fit our paradigm.
The one instance of spider mites I experienced were with mites that came from SoCal. Floramite and Forbid don't touch them. A single application of Avid did it, but at the very same time I was learning that high humidity coupled with low temperatures completely disallows their establishment in the first place. Now, I can't recommend doing that with flowering girls, the results are disappointing (of high RH + low temps <68F) to say the least. But for vegging plants it could likely eradicate those that make their way in.
As far as misuse and overuse, I say let's spread the love to include all homeowners who immediately slap Round-Up on those weeds, Scott's on the lawn Miracle Grow on their flowers, and just peruse the pesticide aisle at Lowe's, Home de Pot, ACE, True Value... they're extensive for a reason (interestingly enough, Bayer of all manu's, has come out with their Natria line of "safe" 'cides'). They also can't stand bugs of any sort for the most part and are very likely to also be using high amounts of anti-microbial/antibiotic products. These people tend to be sick frequently and prone to allergies as well, but I'm seriously digressing.
This all, specifically for me, goes back to the ideas and musings of what will happen in the future. With earth, with life, etcetera.
We humans will suffer our own ultimate demise in one of two ways--we will either pollute ourselves off the face of the earth (less and less likely), OR we will create a superbug (becoming more and more likely, already done with glyphosate) that will wipe us or our main foodstuffs off the face of the earth.
Now, who's ready to line up to contribute to that?
I think I can do my small part, and it starts with my bit of the earth. I won't use glyphosate anymore. I won't use pesticides outside at all. I leave most of the weeds and native flora and fauna in situ. It's mellow if it's yellow and now if it's yellow it's going into the garden and on the plants, not into the septic system. I leave my home (driving) at most about 1x/week, and now that we're getting the solar array I may very well sell my scoot and get an electric car. Or, I may go full-blown hippie and retreat into the woods, I don't know yet.
The question to me isn't whether or not it's happening, it's about MY ROLE.
I can't change the world, but I can change me and my little part in it.
Aaahhh! That's where the disconnect is happening, now I see it! That's the caveat, Buddy, you just said it yourself. IF YOU KILL THEM ALL.
And that's the rub with a lot, if not all of these products--kill rate is rarely 100%. If it were (globally, w/all 'cides'), no organism would be able to develop resistance. I don't think we monkeys are quite that clever yet. Some things do have a 100% kill rate. Steam can be a 100% kill rate in certain applications, for instance, which is why it's actually better to use for, say, home cleaning.
You can't assume that everyone kills them all. You may be able to assume such for yourself, but I, and others, don't know if this is an erroneous assumption or not, as we're really only going by the electrons you're throwing out here for us. As far as NPS strips go, the minute you experience mites laughing at them is the moment you'll pick up what others have been puttin' down. I find they kill most fungus gnats fairly effectively (closet grow), but they don't kill them all.
This could... maybe should, simply spawn another thread--Why do we care about the environment?
Yeah, ok. I've been reading and reading the responses in this thread and was debating, do I respond to this one, to that one?
The angle from which you're hitting this is totally reminding me of the debate over whether or not one should be riding a motorcycle. And to me it's a matter of calculated risks. I can calculate my risk riding fairly accurately. However, with many of the pesticides we're discussing here, the calculations can not be made so accurately. But I get what you're saying and to a large degree have to agree, those are salient questions and we can't disconnect ourselves from them simply because they don't fit our paradigm.
The one instance of spider mites I experienced were with mites that came from SoCal. Floramite and Forbid don't touch them. A single application of Avid did it, but at the very same time I was learning that high humidity coupled with low temperatures completely disallows their establishment in the first place. Now, I can't recommend doing that with flowering girls, the results are disappointing (of high RH + low temps <68F) to say the least. But for vegging plants it could likely eradicate those that make their way in.
As far as misuse and overuse, I say let's spread the love to include all homeowners who immediately slap Round-Up on those weeds, Scott's on the lawn Miracle Grow on their flowers, and just peruse the pesticide aisle at Lowe's, Home de Pot, ACE, True Value... they're extensive for a reason (interestingly enough, Bayer of all manu's, has come out with their Natria line of "safe" 'cides'). They also can't stand bugs of any sort for the most part and are very likely to also be using high amounts of anti-microbial/antibiotic products. These people tend to be sick frequently and prone to allergies as well, but I'm seriously digressing.
This all, specifically for me, goes back to the ideas and musings of what will happen in the future. With earth, with life, etcetera.
We humans will suffer our own ultimate demise in one of two ways--we will either pollute ourselves off the face of the earth (less and less likely), OR we will create a superbug (becoming more and more likely, already done with glyphosate) that will wipe us or our main foodstuffs off the face of the earth.
Now, who's ready to line up to contribute to that?
I think I can do my small part, and it starts with my bit of the earth. I won't use glyphosate anymore. I won't use pesticides outside at all. I leave most of the weeds and native flora and fauna in situ. It's mellow if it's yellow and now if it's yellow it's going into the garden and on the plants, not into the septic system. I leave my home (driving) at most about 1x/week, and now that we're getting the solar array I may very well sell my scoot and get an electric car. Or, I may go full-blown hippie and retreat into the woods, I don't know yet.
The question to me isn't whether or not it's happening, it's about MY ROLE.
I can't change the world, but I can change me and my little part in it.
Aaahhh! That's where the disconnect is happening, now I see it! That's the caveat, Buddy, you just said it yourself. IF YOU KILL THEM ALL.
And that's the rub with a lot, if not all of these products--kill rate is rarely 100%. If it were (globally, w/all 'cides'), no organism would be able to develop resistance. I don't think we monkeys are quite that clever yet. Some things do have a 100% kill rate. Steam can be a 100% kill rate in certain applications, for instance, which is why it's actually better to use for, say, home cleaning.
You can't assume that everyone kills them all. You may be able to assume such for yourself, but I, and others, don't know if this is an erroneous assumption or not, as we're really only going by the electrons you're throwing out here for us. As far as NPS strips go, the minute you experience mites laughing at them is the moment you'll pick up what others have been puttin' down. I find they kill most fungus gnats fairly effectively (closet grow), but they don't kill them all.
This could... maybe should, simply spawn another thread--Why do we care about the environment?
I agree about the environment....all the way to the point of it costing me my garden. Is that ecologically shitty?....I dunno....I do my best to do my part. On all fronts. But when I see airplanes dumping boatloads of pesticides in a field.....next to the fucking HIGHWAY....I could smell the shit,,,,I ask myself, Self....how much harm are you really doing? Is the miniscule amount of pesticide I use responsibly (i think) really damaging the world ecology?
Buddy: Why such resistance to using more than one product? The experts who teach IPM teach a rotation. Do you feel they are wrong? Health-wise, we've bred superbugs with irresponsible prescription of antibiotics. Improper use of treatments causes problems in lots of areas of our lives. Do you really think using more than one product is such a problem even if you think everyone here is wrong about resistance?
Ludacris: I really hope you do change your signature. I'd have big respect for that, even if I don't agree with your position. Also, I hope you don't think I was wishing skin cancer on your or anything. My husband's actually part Scottish. His family has serious issues with skin cancer. I only said that in hopes that you'd realize that the ozone layer and ecosystem do affect you, even if you are myopic enough to think they don't.
Seamaiden: You speak Spanish, right? Do you know that saying about holding your thumb up to block out the sun or however it goes? At least Americans are pretty inundated with tv, books, even politics riddled with info about the environment. I can't imagine anything we'd say would help if all that hasn't. I like the idea though. Have you gotten a chance to read any Kingsolver? You inspired me to re-read mine. I think you'll like Prodigal Summer best. Your other post about apex predators reminded me about it. It so covers everything we've been discussing her in great fiction. Maybe I should start a thread about the importance of bees though. He he.
What funnies buddy ??.
CHRIS.
hmmmm... just the paranoia jokes, but... speaking of which (;-))... I try to click your icon & it directs me to 'ludacris' with a seemingly different profile... tried to pm you, but that other profile links up...???
Several things that have worked for me so far:
1. I do not buy clones... lost 300.00 in genetics due to bugs and the disease. I grow from seed now.
2. I let my room sit for about 3 weeks in temps excess of 80+F.
3. Then whiped down with bleach solution.
4. Sprayed bug spray through the room. Stuff you get at HD.
5. When all else fails... I use JUDO... it worked on them little fuckers and their eggs. However got rid of the plants because of disease.
Buddy: Why such resistance to using more than one product? The experts who teach IPM teach a rotation. Do you feel they are wrong? Health-wise, we've bred superbugs with irresponsible prescription of antibiotics. Improper use of treatments causes problems in lots of areas of our lives. Do you really think using more than one product is such a problem even if you think everyone here is wrong about resistance?
.
It all starts getting better with just one person, Buddy. Pot farmers are a decent sized community. What if we could just start with us? Then try to influence others. I certainly don't think a small pot farmer's spraying can even touch food agriculture's spraying, and I'm not saying I know how to go organic indoors. I'm just saying, let's keep the conversation open to working toward that.
Agreed....but like I said....whats a man to do? Give up? I did what I felt like I HAD to do to make it.
Before I watch a homie go bust over these or RA's...I will spout off what worked for me....even if it isnt the most PC shit to do....because some peoples LIVLIHOOD revolves around their garden. Its like....shitty....and shittier....I know. But whadaya do? I wish I could unleash some BadAss mite killing bugs into my room and walk off. Maybe if we all keep sharing....
Its going a bit of topic.
LUDA.
LOL... don't forget my paranoid delusions... ;-)
It's the web of life, man... (passin the joint)...
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