Gavita vs. E-Papillon **Much Anticipated Video**

[We Solidarity]

what g/w are people getting from these? I can consistently take 2g/w from standard MH/HPS lighting when I grow vertically I just wondered how these compare.

I only grow personally so 1 600w lamp provides me over 40oz every 11 weeks (1 week veg and 10 week flower) I'm always interested in new lighting I wonder how these compare for a home user rather than commercial grower.

Can either of these light be hung vertically or are they reflector only style LEP lamps?

I don't think there's any lighting tech that can hold a candle to vert bulbs in a proper layout...so long as you don't lose your crop.

 

[GR33NL3AF]

Whats the minimum distance from plant on the Gavitas ?

36-40"...Strain and Environment dependent and if both are accepting to it MAYBE 30". I've seen Sour Diesel tops disintegrate at 30 inches.

 

[The Terps]

I run 2 e pap and 4 gravitas and there is no comparison gravitas are more efficient substantially even if spaced perfectly to epap spacing gravitas do better

 

[Fresh Starts]

I run 2 e pap and 4 gravitas and there is no comparison gravitas are more efficient substantially even if spaced perfectly to epap spacing gravitas do better

Gravitas
noun

1. dignity, seriousness, or solemnity of manner.
   "a post for which he has the expertise and the gravitas"

I think you mean Gavita..

 

[The Terps]

Sorry stupid auto correct

 

[Greeninthumb]

the e-pap and the Gavita use the same drivers right? you said they were different but they are from the same company IMO. Also mentioned was that ePAP was made for commercial operations, Gavita fixtures are also right? What about the PL light fixtures that also came out with some of the first DE lamps? They also have two reflectors so I can get whatever pattern is needed in the space. As far as what one runs cooler? the lamp operates at 750C efficiently, so cooler running is not always a good thing in the DE lamps, That is why air cooling is a bad idea. Doesn't the reflector on the gavita only last 1-2 years?

 

[GR33NL3AF]

the e-pap and the Gavita use the same drivers right? you said they were different but they are from the same company IMO. Also mentioned was that ePAP was made for commercial operations, Gavita fixtures are also right? What about the PL light fixtures that also came out with some of the first DE lamps? They also have two reflectors so I can get whatever pattern is needed in the space. As far as what one runs cooler? the lamp operates at 750C efficiently, so cooler running is not always a good thing in the DE lamps, That is why air cooling is a bad idea. Doesn't the reflector on the gavita only last 1-2 years?

It's recommended to swap bulb and reflector every year, this is the most logical in an efficient commercial application.

Same drivers? Ballast? I highly doubt it, but do not know for sure. This is something I can look into.

I do agree the DE, to run efficiently, cannot be air-cooled. Let's be honest though, why would it matter which fixture ran hotter, in a commercial application you should be over-sizing your A/Cs. There is no way either of them put out more then 4,000BTUs, the Nano DE puts out exactly 3700 BTU.

Gavita is certainly a commercial fixture.

Each of the DE reflectors serves a purpose. The E-Pap style reflector will work much better when emphasizing 'tops', where the Gavita will perform better when utilizing it's penetrating ability and developing lower flower sites.

The new PL fixture isn't something I've worked with much because, as a business, we can't profit from these. This is because PL lighting will sell direct. It's a shame they've chosen that route because they miss out on valuable marketing. I will still put it through our testing but I don't see it making a dramatic difference.

 

[Greeninthumb]

It's recommended to swap bulb and reflector every year, this is the most logical in an efficient commercial application.

Same drivers? Ballast? I highly doubt it, but do not know for sure. This is something I can look into.

I do agree the DE, to run efficiently, cannot be air-cooled. Let's be honest though, why would it matter which fixture ran hotter, in a commercial application you should be over-sizing your A/Cs. There is no way either of them put out more then 4,000BTUs, the Nano DE puts out exactly 3700 BTU.

Gavita is certainly a commercial fixture.

Each of the DE reflectors serves a purpose. The E-Pap style reflector will work much better when emphasizing 'tops', where the Gavita will perform better when utilizing it's penetrating ability and developing lower flower sites.

The new PL fixture isn't something I've worked with much because, as a business, we can't profit from these. This is because PL lighting will sell direct. It's a shame they've chosen that route because they miss out on valuable marketing. I will still put it through our testing but I don't see it making a dramatic difference.

The comment on temperature was brought up by your video, I am just commenting on it because you said one ran cooler. Pl does not sell direct in the MJ market, not sure where your information comes from but I can show you sites where Gavita sells direct if you want to dispute that fact. The reason I mentioned Gavita is commercial also is your video seems to say PL is commercial so it isn't any good. From what I know the PL puts out around 2400 BTU so why is GAvita so high? How did you come up with your numbers? Both fixtures are decent fixtures. It comes down to service, knowledge and the reflector mostly.

 

[Greeninthumb]

It's recommended to swap bulb and reflector every year, this is the most logical in an efficient commercial application.

Same drivers? Ballast? I highly doubt it, but do not know for sure. This is something I can look into.

I do agree the DE, to run efficiently, cannot be air-cooled. Let's be honest though, why would it matter which fixture ran hotter, in a commercial application you should be over-sizing your A/Cs. There is no way either of them put out more then 4,000BTUs, the Nano DE puts out exactly 3700 BTU.

Gavita is certainly a commercial fixture.

Each of the DE reflectors serves a purpose. The E-Pap style reflector will work much better when emphasizing 'tops', where the Gavita will perform better when utilizing it's penetrating ability and developing lower flower sites.

The new PL fixture isn't something I've worked with much because, as a business, we can't profit from these. This is because PL lighting will sell direct. It's a shame they've chosen that route because they miss out on valuable marketing. I will still put it through our testing but I don't see it making a dramatic difference.

I do have a question, you said you can't sell PL fixtures and make a profit because PL sells direct. In checking all the sources PL fixtures sell for the same as Gavita and they all go through the master distributor in CO. Can you tell me where they are selling direct from? I work in the commercial world and see more GAvita's/Kavitas sold direct than PL. Where do you get the Gavitas so cheap you can make a good profit? Thanks

 

[GR33NL3AF]

The comment on temperature was brought up by your video, I am just commenting on it because you said one ran cooler. Pl does not sell direct in the MJ market, not sure where your information comes from but I can show you sites where Gavita sells direct if you want to dispute that fact. The reason I mentioned Gavita is commercial also is your video seems to say PL is commercial so it isn't any good. From what I know the PL puts out around 2400 BTU so why is GAvita so high? How did you come up with your numbers? Both fixtures are decent fixtures. It comes down to service, knowledge and the reflector mostly.

There is NO way that PL is only emitting 2400 BTUs.

My numbers come from rigorous testing in house and through various photometric laboratories.

Again, PL, at this time, isn't worth setting up an account with, I have my reasons. And yes, I have heard Gavita sells direct, as well as various other lighting sources but I may or may not have contracts in place giving my company much lower pricing then ever seen in a direct transaction.

 

[The Terps]

To clarify my response from above in my grow room it just doesn't penetrate near as much as the gavita and it's not the bulb or ballast I think they are both great just for my application I don't like the light throw it puts out. I was always more into the block busters than the xl hoods back in what seems to be the Stone Age now lol

 

[GR33NL3AF]

To clarify my response from above in my grow room it just doesn't penetrate near as much as the gavita and it's not the bulb or ballast I think they are both great just for my application I don't like the light throw it puts out. I was always more into the block busters than the xl hoods back in what seems to be the Stone Age now lol

I'm the same way.. Love the blockbuster!

 

[DirtySanchez]

It really all boils down to YOUR APPLICATION. Closet growers and those outside the commercial world, don't buy paps. Gavita has a much harder downward throw of light which would make it the more practical grow for a smaller grow. Now on a commercial grow the ePap is in many cases a better option. The real key here is the reflector like others have mentioned. For growers with no plant count restrictions growing large numbers of small plants (focusing on tops) EPAP IS HANDS DOWN YOUR BEST OPTION. The reflector is made to project a large spread (up to 5x6). While it does have SOME decent downward penetration, it's real strength is that it can illuminate an extremely large area very well. Don't get me wrong, I have seems seen some setups with TREES rocking paps doing very well. 3.4per light on a 60 dayer, that's not a typo. I've suggested to Lights Interaction on numerous occasions they make a "perimeter" reflector for lights on the side rows. The one (albeit slight) downside to paps is you are illuminating the walls on the perimeter of your grow rather than throwing the light down where you need it. The "side light" thrown is actually what makes the paps special on larger grows, except for on the outer rows. It may not seem like a lot but I'm about MAXIMIZING efficiency and production and any waste is still waste.

Keep in mind these setups were all originally designed for the Dutch market where small plants and greenhouse applications are the most common. These fixtures run hotter and need to be placed higher above the canopy than a traditional hps light. This is due to the fact again they were made for the Dutch greenhouse market that can accommodate for this.

I do agree with whoever said this test does not properly measure the capability and efficiency of these lights on large scale (with the majority of these lights being sold to commercial growers). It does however show the results of a single light in a tent... If that's what you're interested in knowing ;)

Wtf is a PL anyway?

 

[fishwhistle]

"Wtf is a PL anyway?"
http://www.pllight.com/products/fixtures/hse-nxt-ii/
http://www.pllight.com/products/
Everyone seems to agree the reflector is KEY and really is the difference in most DE lighting,I think PL is ahead of the curve offering many different choices of reflectors interchangeable to one fixture(see second link),i hope all the other manufacturers take notice.

 

[GR33NL3AF]

I'm not sure how many of you went to the Expo this year? But PAR (Hydrofarm) and Gavita offer various reflector models. PL just has a better avenue for marketing, I guess. The Nanolux DE will have 5 different reflector options, and yes, there will be 'end cap' reflectors for guys running the open E-pap style hood.

 

[Herb Forester]

Last I checked PL are only for 277V and up? @GR33NL3AF which light labs does Monster Gardens use for your tests?

 

[GR33NL3AF]

@Herb Forester lets keep the lighting discussion in the appropriate thread..

This message was intended for greeninthumb...

Video aside, I can assure you we arn't outfitting 4x4 operations... Largest one, this week, is 150,000 sq ft. We set up our clients with exactly the right fixture. And to be clear I don't work in commercial, I run the R&D department in my company. If you would like to continue this discussion please do so in the other thread, pertaining to lighting.

An attempt to convey that my company doesn't just post videos or data to help a 4x4 grower.

This whole lighting craze that's going on right now is just a dick measuring competition, for sales. The test results from everyone of these fixtures and bulbs is not enough of a difference to report. Lighting in general is at a stand-still until these factories begin producing bulbs with specific spectrum needs. For example, a reliable Metal Halide DE bulb or one comparable to the broad spectrum of Hortilux's BLUE bulb.

It doesn't matter whose name is on what ballast/bulb or how long they've been selling light technology for. If I wanted to start a lighting company called "Bob's Butt Fuck Fixtures' I could source the same components anyone of these companies are currently using to produce a specific fixture for my client's needs.

I doubt the PL fixtures are specific to any voltage.... If I called in an order of 200 fixtures I would imagine they would do there best to get me any voltage I preferred.

I'll give credit to the different laboratories in do time...

Did you ever get your spot setup with DE's?

 

[fishwhistle]

Had no idea gavita offered different reflectors,did not hit up the expo this year as they cancelled long beach.Just sent an email off to gavita,i want to check out what they have out of curiousity,are they a direct replacement for the DE fixtures?

 

[GR33NL3AF]

@fishwhistle I saw a Gavita fixture with an E-pap reflector on it, haven't looked into it though...

 

[Herb Forester]

Was waiting to see what you came up with but think I'm getting the picture now. All this talking out of school is a little disappointing.