Generic Dual arc bulbs?

[Mystre.Pharmer]

Hey all. Im in the process of rebuilding my sealed room at my new place. It's time to buy new bulbs. So mu question to the pharmers here is:

Does bulb brand make a difference? I want to try out the Dual Arc 1k bulbs. I found a listing on EBay for a 1000w dual arc for $35. thats like $200 less lol. normally i buy Hortilux brand bulbs (their dual arc is like $230 online).

Sometimes electronics (such as TV's) are built in the same factory and the exact same inside and out but are sold under a different brand for less. (thats right sometimes we pay for brand name alone) so i guess my question is, has anyone bought cheaper brand bulbs? would there be a reason to just buy Hortilux brand instead? i dont want my bulbs burning out prematurely or anything like that.

anybody and everybody feel free to chime in here :)


-Mystre.Pharmer

 

[Mystre.Pharmer]

Greetings.

i noticed i forgot to post the link i was talking about... now i cant find it. :joint:

but here is a link to PlantMax Dual Arc 1000w for $89. my local store sells the Eye Hortilux Super Blue Grow Lamp 1000 Watt for $200.

http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/lights4.shtml

what could be a problem with cheap bulbs?

the only thing i can think of would be flickering but that's usually a ballast issue isn't it?


Happy Pharming!

-Mystre.Pharmer



EDIT: Found it ;)



hard to read but i think the brand is Artemis? not much comes up in search about it.

 

[homebrew420]

Pick it up! For that price why not? Have your old lamp hang around incase of failure, but for $35 buy it. Those dual arcs are soooo over priced and I have seen so many people say they make no difference. Though I personally would love to test them out. Maybe when I get some more space.

 

[Bionik Kronik]

I don't know if it makes a difference but I use the EYE HORTILUX Dual-Arc bulbs and love them. They stilll get as hot as regular 1000's do.

 

[Valid215]

I bought a few of those ebay 1k dual arc bulbs, and they're working like champs.

I hesitated wondering about dimming them with the quantum ballast but havent had any issues in the 6+ months they've been running.

I dont know how they compare to the hortilix's but I couldnt justify the $220 a piece they want for em.

 

[homebrew420]

Valid215 keep us all informed on how these fair. Have many folks that would love to know.

 

[mojado]

hey bro have some questions about water cooling

just wondering overall do you see a lot of advantages using the watercooling to cool your room?

just want to know if it is worth the extra cash for the initial setup. im in the process of setting my room up and also went the watercooling route and all my equipment is on the way. do you have any tips.

my room is 18x12x10 with 8 1000 xxxl ocho reflectors and 8 inch ice boxes for each. the light chains are devided into 2 rows of four with high cfm 12 inch light sucking air through them and cooling the room.

my concerns are about humidity and the condensation issue which i didnt know about till i read your post.

i also ordered the huge 5hp chiller as the heart of the system. i oversized. and the cool coil for my nutrient resevoir and the hydrogen pro co2 generator.

you think this is a good set up also i have 2 extra 8 inch ice boxes wall mounted.

i also plan to do a sealed room but have some concerns. do you introduce any fresh air at any time or is it completely sealed. i want a completely sealed room but i hear some people saying plants need fresh air once in a while or you need to extract all the stagnant co2 during lights off.

im a little overwhelmed with all the stuff i have been reading lately about the haters of water cooling. after reading your post i feel i made a right choice in going water cooled. all my products are from hydro innovations and chilerking.

please help thanks

 

[420blunts]

hey mojado, you will get more help/advice if you start your own thread with questions about watercooling. sorry mp didn't mean to hijack your thread.

 

[HappyGrower]

I go on ebay all the time to buy my bulbs. Save's a person alot of $$.

Take Care, Happy Grower :banana1sv6:

 

[Tesseract]

Mojado,
A rule of thumb on these boards is to not take over someones thread! People are trying to get information for a specific problem and don't need the extra verbal diarrhea.

There are plenty of threads/websites online to answer your question and I can to if you post a NEW thread (being as I run a water cooled system in a sealed room).


With that said, Sorry MP!!!

Is there a difference in bulbs? Yes and no.

It depends on what type of ballast you are running first and foremost. Some bulbs do not like electronic ballasts so its important to figure that out.

Even though SolarMax says their 1k hps bulbs work in the C.A.P. Nextgen ballasts, I do not agree so much. Every SolarMax I had died. When replaced with the Hortilux bulbs, they are fine. A lot of other people have had this specific problem, but of coarse SolarMax will not admit the problem.

I have run 600w Solormax bulbs as well as the Sunmasters in an e-ballast with great results so I know they CAN work great.

My plants have always looked better under the Hortilux bulbs and I have come to love their superior quality and spectrum. They are a tad $$$ but are worth it!

Dual arc tubes are a great idea and perform well, but are around 1/3 less output of lumens, which is going to greatly diminish overall weight. Being a mix of spectrums that mimic the sun more, one might say your bud may be of slightly better quality, but I can't take that to heart because I have never seen the results side by side.

Ebay bulbs are fine as long as they work! When it comes to bulbs, I have noticed that you will pay more for better quality, but worth it in my humble opinion.

There is a thread on here about the new C.A.P. digilux bulbs and they seem to be the new winner in performance, and are cheaper then the Hortilux's.


T

 

[RMCG]

I too was looking at the 'off brand' dual arc bulbs because the bulb cost is hard to justify, but I think you might just be better off mixing true MH/HPS bulbs in the room vs dual arcs.

 

[Tesseract]

I too was looking at the 'off brand' dual arc bulbs because the bulb cost is hard to justify, but I think you might just be better off mixing true MH/HPS bulbs in the room vs dual arcs.

I think thats good advice. I would do the same thing RMCG.

May I play devils advocate for a second?

Maybe it comes down to cost or room size. 1k dual arcs are around 110,000 lumens. If the space involved only requires a 600w bulb, then it may be cheaper to buy a 1000w dual arc because of the cost of 1 ballast ect...
With mixing 2 bulbs, you must either have a ballast that can run 2 bulbs, or buy two ballasts and all the things involved.

Since a 600w hps puts out around 90-95K in lumens and thats all you need, then maybe instead of going with a 400w hps and a 200w CMH, why not get the 1k dual arc. Not much more heat, but an extra 15k lumens with a mixed spectrum.

Thoughts?


T

 

[RMCG]

I would agree with that line of thinking.

But once you have a multi KW room, I would do like 6k HPS and 4k MH something along those lines vs all dual arcs.

 

[sky high]

And @ this point in time, many folks have digital ballasts that will run both mh/hps so swapping lamps around during the grow is not a problem, especially with vert lighting.

Thanks for the link/etc. Might be worth a try.

s h

 

[Tesseract]

Both of your posts are spot on RMCG and Sky High. I would do the same.

If you have the extra cash though, get a ceramic metal halide. Way better IMO

T

 

[homebrew420]

the only issue we might be missing here is that the dual spectrum using a MH and a HPS separately, is that the light needs to overlap. With the dual spectrum lamps its, obviously, all in one. you would need to have your reflectors right next to one another. Kind of inconvenient. Also less overall lumens with the one light. When I have the room I WILL be trying these out. Just to see for myself. I run a 600 HPS and a 400 CMH in flower. They are inline on one another. There is little to no benefit I can see in this setup. When I was using the reflectors side by side I feel that was some of my best flowers I have grown.

 

[Tesseract]

the only issue we might be missing here is that the dual spectrum using a MH and a HPS separately, is that the light needs to overlap. With the dual spectrum lamps its, obviously, all in one. you would need to have your reflectors right next to one another. Kind of inconvenient. Also less overall lumens with the one light. When I have the room I WILL be trying these out. Just to see for myself. I run a 600 HPS and a 400 CMH in flower. They are inline on one another. There is little to no benefit I can see in this setup. When I was using the reflectors side by side I feel that was some of my best flowers I have grown.

Great thinking! Like you said, they do make hoods, cool tubes ect.. with sockets for 2 bulbs but it's the spread you want with multiple reflectors.

It may be a pian for some, but like the others on here said, you could always rotate the bulbs in the setup.

T

 

[Bobby Smith]

Getting back on topic here - OP, I've got a couple of "generic" 600W dual arcs that I got off of Ebay - they fired up fine, but then my surge protector tripped (15 amps and I was trying to run 3 600s on it) and I (incorrectly) blamed it on them.

Honestly, I am and have always been of the opinion that a bulb is a bulb is a bulb (obviously if matching the major variables of wavelength, lumens, etc.) - there's not a whole lot of hidden electronics in there to differentiate different companies.

When I was doing some research, the wavelength, lumens, etc. are all identical between brands, leading me to believe they're from the same factory (or the Chinese sure did their homework before they knocked it off) - either way, doesn't make sense to me to spend that much cheddar on a bulb - buy cheapos and replace for every grow.

Anyways, I've been dragging my feet on taking clones but I'm gonna go in there and do it today (and also fire up the dual arcs to make sure they work), so if there's anything in particular you'd like (have "normal" HPS as well) like lux readings or anything, lemme know.

EDIT: somewhat off topic but somewhat related, I have never tried to hang MH vertically because I was under the impression that only HPS were rated to be hung either vert/horizontal - is that no longer the case?

I run four 600s stacked on top of each other, so I would love to be able to find 600MH bulbs that can be hung vertically - I searched for a while but couldn't find any - I'd love to hear if anyone knows if these even exist.

 

[Tesseract]

Getting back on topic here - OP, I've got a couple of "generic" 600W dual arcs that I got off of Ebay - they fired up fine, but then my surge protector tripped (15 amps and I was trying to run 3 600s on it) and I (incorrectly) blamed it on them.

Honestly, I am and have always been of the opinion that a bulb is a bulb is a bulb (obviously if matching the major variables of wavelength, lumens, etc.) - there's not a whole lot of hidden electronics in there to differentiate different companies.

When I was doing some research, the wavelength, lumens, etc. are all identical between brands, leading me to believe they're from the same factory (or the Chinese sure did their homework before they knocked it off) - either way, doesn't make sense to me to spend that much cheddar on a bulb - buy cheapos and replace for every grow.

Anyways, I've been dragging my feet on taking clones but I'm gonna go in there and do it today (and also fire up the dual arcs to make sure they work), so if there's anything in particular you'd like (have "normal" HPS as well) like lux readings or anything, lemme know.

EDIT: somewhat off topic but somewhat related, I have never tried to hang MH vertically because I was under the impression that only HPS were rated to be hung either vert/horizontal - is that no longer the case?

I run four 600s stacked on top of each other, so I would love to be able to find 600MH bulbs that can be hung vertically - I searched for a while but couldn't find any - I'd love to hear if anyone knows if these even exist.

Not sure how anything we were saying was off topic, but mmmk.

After using just about every bulb you can imagine, I can tell you beyond a reasonable doubt, that there are HUGE differences in bulbs beyond just the wavelengths ect...
When dealing with robust equipment in a growing environment, quality MUST not be overlooked. I am not saying that you have to spend a certain amount, but in this kind of environment, where constant performance is needed, I have to say that you usually get what you pay for.

I will gladly fork over the 119.00 bucks for a hortilux that has given me superior quality yields, happy plants, and constant reliable quality then take a chance on something that might not. Good rule of thumb is to have a few extras on hand or save some of your old replaced bulbs just in case.

Doesn't mean I wont go to Ebay to buy a Hortilux though.

I would choose the standard hps or an enhanced spectrum like the hortilux over a dual arc any day but thats juts me.

.02


T

 

[sky high]

EDIT: somewhat off topic but somewhat related, I have never tried to hang MH vertically because I was under the impression that only HPS were rated to be hung either vert/horizontal - is that no longer the case?

I run four 600s stacked on top of each other, so I would love to be able to find 600MH bulbs that can be hung vertically - I searched for a while but couldn't find any - I'd love to hear if anyone knows if these even exist.

I agree....not off topic. Folks need to/should know more about these lamps, IMO.

Bobby.....what ya need to do is start looking at the CODES on the lamp descriptions....and this aslo works if you find an old lamp somewhere and there's no box/etc. Often times if you know some of the codes you can decipher what you have....

See this:

Plantmax Metal Halide 1000W - Grow Lamp
•Metal Halide Horticultural
•Brand: Plantmax
•PX-MS1000/BT37/U/4K <<<<<< note this line
•Watt: 1000W
•ANSI: M47
•Initial Lumen: 120,000
•Bulb Size: BT37
•Avg Life: 10,000 hr
•CCT: 4,200
•Product Number: 22126


•PX-MS1000/BT37/U/4K

^^ what this code means is this

PX=PlantMax in this case
MS1000 - 1000 watt
BT37 - the shape of the bulb
U -UNIVERSAL burn position
4K - is the Kelvin rating of the lamp

If the lamp can be burned in ANY position it will have a "U" stamped in the code somewhere.

ALL hps lamps should have a "U" in their code because they can be burned in ANY postion.

METAL HALIDE lamps are maked as such

"U" for Universal
"BU" for "BASE UP"
"H" for HORIZONTAL

Universal = ANY position
Base Up = lamp base in UP position only
Horizontal = burn ONLY in horizontal fixture

Individual manufacturers may also imprt their own coding that denotes kelvin/spectrum/etc. As an example, Sunmaster does this with their Cool deluxe (CDX) Warm Deluxe (WDX) and Nuetral deluxe (NDX) lamps.

hope that helps

s h