Grow Room design-RDWC questions and ideas

[Cool_Beans]

Hello all, going to be starting a new grow room from the slab up soon and would like to give hydroponics a shot. I'm working on layout and before I got too far, I had some questions about bucket size and design for RDWC after looking at what is commercially available as well as what people are using for DIY solutions. I'll have two 6x8ft rooms sharing a middle wall, one flower one veg/lung room.

I can build the space out however needed and have about 12ft of available height to work with. My general plan since I have vertical to spare is/was to raise everything up off the floor about a foot or so and start there, so I don't have to bend my happy ass over so far. Also like to design it to drain down completely without leaving significant water in the system (sanitation).

This all got me thinking about experimenting with a single 3" drain in the bottom of the bucket instead of two in the sides and bringing the feed line in above the water line, or perhaps up from the bottom on a riser. I have only experience with high pressure water systems, balancing low pressure flow is new to me, so I don't know if this will work as well for general flow dynamics in this sort of system. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated before I start experimenting.

Cheers!

 

[ninjadip]

I think this is called ebb and flow? Idk. I have an rwdc setup, but the real hydroponics gurus here are @Aqua Man and @Moe.Red

If you are in the design stage I would definitely get their advice before moving forward, and about automation ideas.

I didn't hear any real questions in your post, but if you are wondering if your idea will work, it definitely will.

 

[Moe.Red]

Welcome to the farm Mr. Beans.

I think you will find the square 13 gal or 8 gal buckets to be easiest to work with at the plant sites. Since you have such headspace, lifting the buckets seems like a good idea. Until you figure how much you plan to grow the plants vertically. With my 13g buckets, growing a sativa leaning plant, I am literally looking up at the buds at harvest, and that is with the buckets directly on the ground. It makes adjusting the lights and things like that a feat of acrobatics. If you add a net to scrog, it gets worse. Something to consider.

Can you talk a bit about your grow style, genetics, etc? What are your environmental controls? What are your goals i.e. max harvest via monocrop clones or variety of strains grown simultaneously? Where are you located in the world? What is your source water? What do you plan to use for nutes? Lighting? How close is the drain?

I can hopefully save you some mistakes I have made over the years if you give me the rundown on what your expectations are and your inputs to work with. I won't judge you I promise, if you don't know the answers that's ok but that gives you something to think about. Ultimately expect to make changes as you progress so planning for future flexibility is a good thing too.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Awesome. Thanks for the warm welcome. I'll do the best I can to answer your questions.

I'm a blank slate when it comes to this specific kind of growing, but I do have experience in commercial and industrial drinking water process and QA. I have more experience in low voltage automation. I have a one decent soil grow under my belt w 1 plant in a 3x3 tent and another grow currently underway with 3 plants in week 3 of flower. Already doing better than my first run, but we'll see. I'm learning a ton and really loving this plant and how it grows. I'm running bag seed because I didn't know any better. To my shock they germinated in my Aerogarden in about 2 days and took off like a rocket.

I am not seeking massive yields, or to even maximize my available space. I am seeking to build a tidy and clean setup and grow well as a hobby and hopefully have efficient turnover of a small number of plants for personal usage quantities. I'd like plenty of space to access the plants vs filling the available space with pots. My environmental controls can be whatever general consensus agrees is best for my space and budget. This is going inside an insulated and heated garage and I'm not planning on growing during the temp extremes here (Maine) if I can avoid it. Our water is fantastic here with very low TDS, but neutral pH of around 7.3-7.4. I can round you up a full analysis when the time comes.

I'd like to find a strain that grows well in my setup, does the trick medicinally and roll with it for a while until I really figure things out. So, clones for the time being, I guess? Maybe keep a nice mother on display in her own little spot when I find her. Just have fun with it.

I mostly just love a good project and tinkering, and this is right up my alley. I've done enough in my little tent to know I like growing a lot and want a better operation with less dirt inside the house lol..

I'll see if I can post a sketch of what I'm thinking for a layout.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Here is basically what I had in mind, all subject to change of course. Pots would be on 30" centers. I have roughly 16-18ft to work with and fit the two rooms. 6 feet of width, which kind of sucks but is what it is.

 

[smokedareefer]

Here's a few pictures of my setup. 12 ft ceilings room 13x16 60 inch centers 13 gal current culture. I dont use a net but that one time. Yo-yo and brace wire the low wire is at 6 ft 1 inch so i can walk under it.

 

[ninjadip]

Sick setup!!!
And sorry for not saying welcome to the farm

 

[Cool_Beans]

Holy crap those are trees.. Damn dude you really went for it. Love it. If I can end up somewhere between that and my 3x3 I'll consider it a win.

 

[ninjadip]

You're blue prints are def better than mine lol.

This is my move for my next run. It's a 4x4'
I'm limited on space. Ph c stands for ph controller. Those are 5 gallon buckets. As this is the only change, I don't have everything else on here

 

[Cashmeh]

I would focus alot on your nutrient lineup and how you would combat root rot. We can all tell you how to tune your system, but it will be based upon how we run ours. I would stick with the most common design plans, but I would put a focus on gallons per plant. The higher your system holding capacity, the less you have to maintain it. If your doing frequent res changes on a sterile system or live system, the holding capacity isnt as big of a deal. I never run below 10 gallons per plant. So if you have 5 plants, system capacity minimum should be 50 gallons. Most hydro growers run h2o2 with a chiller in a sterile system. Sterile systems are by far the most popular umong hydro growers. To sum it up, its ran like a pool. You use additives to break down the cell walls of the microbes. In a live system its ran more like a lake. We add natural bacteria that will combat the pythium that plagues hydro systems. You can run it at warmer water temps with no chiller. I run live, and only a few others on here run live. So if I tell you what I think you should do, it might conflict with what someone else running a sterile system will tell you. You cannot add h2o2 to a live system and you cannot add bacteria to a sterile system. Since your asking for advice, make sure your specific on your goals. I personally have set some unique goals and have achieved them. I would not recommend taking my path without full dedication lol. Now you can run it like other people run their live system too. Most people do res changes, I do not. I go 2 months and my ppms are at about 500 at the end of the grow, and my res has been sucked dry by the plant leaving only about 20% of the solution, aka 5 gallons per plant grown, to be pumped down the drain. I dont use corrosives on my root system, I dont like running the water at temps lower than 72f due to a personal belief it slows growth. I dont add enzymes because I dont use corrosives and I dont need nutrients rebonded, I dont need enzymes that are not bonded left in the res. I personally grow like no one else, so take it with a grain of salt, I got haters, I got lovers lol. . Personally if your dedicated and dont wanna pump shit outside, and you dont wanna damage the roots with corrosives, and you dont wanna run a chiller. . id say go live. I have a thread where I helped "ispy" do his first live grow. He was happy I think lol . .Basically, let me also state this. The chances of messing up is extremely high, in both systems. So no matter what you do, learn from it and go forward. My profile is viewable and urge you to click some of these links so you know im not full of shit.
We also debate and argue, not just me. . but if theres something above I said wrong, im sure I will have to defend it very very soon. No one holds back bro, so just read and study what those have done just as much as what they say. No one wants to actually watch you fail, we all just have conflicting methods on how you should do it. Its your job to sift through it all and pick your path.

 

[Cashmeh]

Venturi fittings work great. Attach an airline to the end of the pump and yea. . i run 2 pumps in that tote. Once for increasing o2 in the res. And another pump running lines through the return line and each bucket has a venturi too. I need a bigger pump but yea. .

 

[Cool_Beans]

You know funny you mention that I just ordered a venturi to play w for the input of my test bucket.

I appreciate the advice Cashmeh. Your plants look amazing. I'm not always trying to do what everyone else is doing either. I mean, I want to do what works, of course, but it seems like how one chooses to get there is not cast in stone and I really dig that about this.

Oh yeah, in culinary school they stress how valuable failure is as a part of the learning process. Doesnt phase me one bit and I look forward to all of it. Try making good bread on your first try. Isn't going to happen. You just gotta push through.

 

[Cool_Beans]

The Spider Farmer SE3000 I have in my 3x3 seem like a ripper for that size footprint or maybe a little smaller. I was considering one over each grow site since I already have one.

 

[ninjadip]

I would focus alot on your nutrient lineup and how you would combat root rot. We can all tell you how to tune your system, but it will be based upon how we run ours. I would stick with the most common design plans, but I would put a focus on gallons per plant. The higher your system holding capacity, the less you have to maintain it. If your doing frequent res changes on a sterile system or live system, the holding capacity isnt as big of a deal. I never run below 10 gallons per plant. So if you have 5 plants, system capacity minimum should be 50 gallons. Most hydro growers run h2o2 with a chiller in a sterile system. Sterile systems are by far the most popular umong hydro growers. To sum it up, its ran like a pool. You use additives to break down the cell walls of the microbes. In a live system its ran more like a lake. We add natural bacteria that will combat the pythium that plagues hydro systems. You can run it at warmer water temps with no chiller. I run live, and only a few others on here run live. So if I tell you what I think you should do, it might conflict with what someone else running a sterile system will tell you. You cannot add h2o2 to a live system and you cannot add bacteria to a sterile system. Since your asking for advice, make sure your specific on your goals. I personally have set some unique goals and have achieved them. I would not recommend taking my path without full dedication lol. Now you can run it like other people run their live system too. Most people do res changes, I do not. I go 2 months and my ppms are at about 500 at the end of the grow, and my res has been sucked dry by the plant leaving only about 20% of the solution, aka 5 gallons per plant grown, to be pumped down the drain. I dont use corrosives on my root system, I dont like running the water at temps lower than 72f due to a personal belief it slows growth. I dont add enzymes because I dont use corrosives and I dont need nutrients rebonded, I dont need enzymes that are not bonded left in the res. I personally grow like no one else, so take it with a grain of salt, I got haters, I got lovers lol. . Personally if your dedicated and dont wanna pump shit outside, and you dont wanna damage the roots with corrosives, and you dont wanna run a chiller. . id say go live. I have a thread where I helped "ispy" do his first live grow. He was happy I think lol . .Basically, let me also state this. The chances of messing up is extremely high, in both systems. So no matter what you do, learn from it and go forward. My profile is viewable and urge you to click some of these links so you know im not full of shit.
We also debate and argue, not just me. . but if theres something above I said wrong, im sure I will have to defend it very very soon. No one holds back bro, so just read and study what those have done just as much as what they say. No one wants to actually watch you fail, we all just have conflicting methods on how you should do it. Its your job to sift through it all and pick your path.

I am one that argues lol but @Cashmeh def knows what they are talking about . I'm still very green

I'll back that up about the learning curve with hydro .. you think it's all good your first go and then you turn your back for a second and it can go south quick. By the time I realized I was fighting root rot by the leaves, it was too late for some.. for a while I was just smelling the res two three times a day while I was learning what works in my system to fight it. I have been doing live these past two(I'm on my second) grows and learning a lot. Still on the fence about going sterile next run or not. While I was able to get on top of it this time, the frustration is still very fresh lol

And great advice about the res size per plant. I think I might be right at that 10 gal mark next run. I wasn't this time, and I can't wait for next run.

I wish I would have spent more time and research on design from the beginning instead of only learning the hard way.

I had a plant doing so good, see below, and then due to carelessness I was fighting root rot on every plant in the grow. I really thought I had it figured out when I had great white roots in the beginning, boy did I get humbled.

 

[ninjadip]

You know funny you mention that I just ordered a venturi to play w for the input of my test bucket.

I appreciate the advice Cashmeh. Your plants look amazing. I'm not always trying to do what everyone else is doing either. I mean, I want to do what works, of course, but it seems like how one chooses to get there is not cast in stone and I really dig that about this.

Oh yeah, in culinary school they stress how valuable failure is as a part of the learning process. Doesnt phase me one bit and I look forward to all of it. Try making good bread on your first try. Isn't going to happen. You just gotta push through.

Yeah it's funny, I went through a few of the common failures with growing but I really enjoyed the why and getting the living knowledge. My only aim is to get better every time, and so far I have

 

[Cool_Beans]

I am one that argues lol but @Cashmeh def knows what they are talking about . I'm still very green

I'll back that up about the learning curve with hydro .. you think it's all good your first go and then you turn your back for a second and it can go south quick. By the time I realized I was fighting root rot by the leaves, it was too late for some.. for a while I was just smelling the res two three times a day while I was learning what works in my system to fight it. I have been doing live these past two(I'm on my second) grows and learning a lot. Still on the fence about going sterile next run or not. While I was able to get on top of it this time, the frustration is still very fresh lol

And great advice about the res size per plant. I think I might be right at that 10 gal mark next run. I wasn't this time, and I can't wait for next run.

I wish I would have spent more time and research on design from the beginning instead of only learning the hard way.

I had a plant doing so good, see below, and then due to carelessness I was fighting root rot on every plant in the grow. I really thought I had it figured out when I had great white roots in the beginning, boy did I get humbled.

I was gonna shoot for ~50gal operating capacity w 4 buckets + res and pipes for no other reason than I'd like the changeout volume to fit in a single Rubbermaid so I can have it ready ahead of time.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Ozone would probably kill whatever bugs are causing root rot because it kills everything. Breaks down into oxygen too. We used it for years and never had a single hot bac result or rejected tanker load. Over 40 million gallons potable water delivered in that time span. Takes a solid program. Automated logic in process systems is a blessing. Ozone <.20ppm = shut_it_the_F_down.exe. Nothing was allowed to run if the ozone was out of range. Valves close, pumps disabled, no soup for you. My NovaZone Ozone generator was the only reason I slept well at night lol. I'd switch out fried gaskets all day before I gave it up.

 

[ninjadip]

Ozone would probably kill whatever bugs are causing root rot because it kills everything. Breaks down into oxygen too. We used it for years and never had a single hot bac result or rejected tanker load. Over 40 million gallons potable water delivered in that time span. Takes a solid program. Automated logic in process systems is a blessing. Ozone <.20ppm = shut_it_the_F_down.exe. Nothing was allowed to run if the ozone was out of range. Valves close, pumps disabled, no soup for you. My NovaZone Ozone generator was the only reason I slept well at night lol. I'd switch out fried gaskets all day before I gave it up.

How did that work? I'm not that knowledgeable about ozone in water.

 

[Moe.Red]

I'll just put this here - measuring DO with a probe both in my system and on the bench - venturis do fuck all nothing to raise DO. For the most part airstones raise DO by stirring and increasing atmospheric contact with water. The bubbles themselves in the water don't do the O2 exchange nearly as much as the surface of the water does. So a pump without a venturi stirring the water will be just about as effective as one with a venturi.

If the venturi is sucking air from inside the res, you are wasting time. If sucking from outside, at least you are pulling in more atmosphere to keep free O2 high in the res atmosphere and pushing out CO2.

 

[Cool_Beans]

We would inject it into the flow of the loadout mains with a big venturi.