Growers Utilizing Cob Lights

[crimsonecho]

@UncleRomulus and @MIMedGrower and anybody else i can ask: since this old dog is learning new tricks, may i ask what you do not like about the LEDs? I always used HPS and metal halide but damn the right LED sounds like a big improvement. I'd very much appreciate your thoughts...

There is virtually nothing you’ll not like about leds. But if you need negatives, lack of uv radiation is considered by some as a negative. Tho you can supplement uv leds for that. As said far red can be supplemented too. And if you provide far red in veg plants will stretch much more, like under hps.

Another downside, if you’re growing in a cold climate would be the lack of heat output. But again this is actually a positive thing. Can’t really think of any negatives besides these.

 

[SinCity]

There is virtually nothing you’ll not like about leds. But if you need negatives, lack of uv radiation is considered by some as a negative. Tho you can supplement uv leds for that. As said far red can be supplemented too. And if you provide far red in veg plants will stretch much more, like under hps.

Another downside, if you’re growing in a cold climate would be the lack of heat output. But again this is actually a positive thing. Can’t really think of any negatives besides these.

thank you for this! as long as i dial in the right ratio of different 'color' diodes, i think i'm getting all the wavelengths (ultraviolet to yellow --and white even i'm hearing). i'm using two cheap 650 watts of half blue and half 'red' in my little tiny room (where a washer and dryer would go) and loving it! they are so small and lightweight and i can hang them so close to the plants and just pull a little string to raise them. no terror of exploding HPS or halide bulbs from a drop of water hitting them. i'm good with the no heat :) and with the way lower electricity costs AND i hear the yield can be way bigger per watt....

 

[UncleRomulus]

@UncleRomulus and @MIMedGrower and anybody else i can ask: since this old dog is learning new tricks, may i ask what you do not like about the LEDs? I always used HPS and metal halide but damn the right LED sounds like a big improvement. I'd very much appreciate your thoughts...

Ya I’m sold on some cxb3530s or 3590 s myself. Just old school and I use what I have. I’m setting up a space that will use 750 watts hps, 2x 315 cmh and 4 x 100 watt cobs in the corners. I like my lighting like I like my ladies.. weird haha

 

[UncleRomulus]

I will advocate for cmh tho over most lighting. It turns out most potent, fragrant buds as a stand-alone that this ol bastard has ever had.
For example, buddy bought a nanolux 315 vert cmh fixture. 3 bills. Throws a phili Agro bulb in.. 1 Hundo.. damn tho does that thing seem overkill I’m a 3x3. Would cover 4x4 no prob. Now tell me.. 315 watts and 400 bucks later and your yanking an lb of best weed you’ve ever grown out of a 4x4.. one fixture (runs so cool you can have your hand an inch from the bulb and not even hot.)
LEDs have come a long way and I like them. What’s not to like,?
Just heads up tho, hid is not dead and that tech hasn’t stood still neither. Still, companies are working hps and mh even improving. Seems crazy but ceramic hps could be cool is they cut out all that heat in the spectrum somehow.

 

[crimsonecho]

I will advocate for cmh tho over most lighting. It turns out most potent, fragrant buds as a stand-alone that this ol bastard has ever had.
For example, buddy bought a nanolux 315 vert cmh fixture. 3 bills. Throws a phili Agro bulb in.. 1 Hundo.. damn tho does that thing seem overkill I’m a 3x3. Would cover 4x4 no prob. Now tell me.. 315 watts and 400 bucks later and your yanking an lb of best weed you’ve ever grown out of a 4x4.. one fixture (runs so cool you can have your hand an inch from the bulb and not even hot.)
LEDs have come a long way and I like them. What’s not to like,?
Just heads up tho, hid is not dead and that tech hasn’t stood still neither. Still, companies are working hps and mh even improving. Seems crazy but ceramic hps could be cool is they cut out all that heat in the spectrum somehow.

Bro you say hid is not dead but at the moment most high end leds have higher umol/j output and when you apply the mccree curve, they produce even higher efficiency. Sorry, i know people love their cmhs and they seem like they are pretty cool but leds are just beginning their journey. My led grown buds are so fragrant i’m actually worried a bit about arousing unwanted attention to myself while they’re drying. Just my 2 cents.

 

[SinCity]

Ya I’m sold on some cxb3530s or 3590 s myself. Just old school and I use what I have. I’m setting up a space that will use 750 watts hps, 2x 315 cmh and 4 x 100 watt cobs in the corners. I like my lighting like I like my ladies.. weird haha

nothing weird about it. i wasn't sure about the LEDs at first myself--mostly because i don't know them and they're so different from sodiums and halides. but i'm just doing a few plants in a little room so i can play around a bit. sounds like you've got a solid set up--a little of all and in small enough wattage to get great coverage across the room. and let's hear for being weird!

 

[SinCity]

I will advocate for cmh tho over most lighting. It turns out most potent, fragrant buds as a stand-alone that this ol bastard has ever had.
For example, buddy bought a nanolux 315 vert cmh fixture. 3 bills. Throws a phili Agro bulb in.. 1 Hundo.. damn tho does that thing seem overkill I’m a 3x3. Would cover 4x4 no prob. Now tell me.. 315 watts and 400 bucks later and your yanking an lb of best weed you’ve ever grown out of a 4x4.. one fixture (runs so cool you can have your hand an inch from the bulb and not even hot.)
LEDs have come a long way and I like them. What’s not to like,?
Just heads up tho, hid is not dead and that tech hasn’t stood still neither. Still, companies are working hps and mh even improving. Seems crazy but ceramic hps could be cool is they cut out all that heat in the spectrum somehow.

i really appreciate this conversation! i loved finding out about the improvements in metal halides--ceramic and way less heat and electric pull than the old ones, no ballasts. because all i really know is lumens and using halides for veg and HPS for flowering, it sounds like ceramic mh is broader spectrum and from what you're able to yield from 315 watts, they're WAY better light intensity than back in the day. having a vertical light is huge--in fact, all that lit review i've done today makes it clear that LEDs really need to be placed sub-canopy in addition to horizontally over the canopy. the research seems to be saying that just good canopy penetration from above isn't good enough if we're going for this next-level super dialed-in PAR optimization.

several of my friends agree with you that the cmh is best. they swear by gavitas--and haven't liked the LED results. i bought a 1000 watt gavita because some of them were so adamantly against LEDs.

HOWEVER, alot of people here in Humboldt are CRAZY set in their ways--and by crazy i mean deluded by ignorance and arrogance. so it's very likely i'll be more than happy with the LEDs--or not!

now i have to rant just a little, don't mind me. many people here simply won't listen to new information nor to old knowledge. i still have to fight all the time with people who are great growers but will go to their grave refusing to believe that their organic fertilizers still break down into N, P, and fucking K--ORGANIC (as in naturally occurring) CHEMICALS. it makes me insane! the rivers in humboldt have such high nutrient loads that dogs routinely die from swimming in them. people refuse to believe their organic nutrients are the source! "oh i don't use chemicals--i'm organic." NITROGEN IS FUCKING NITROGEN. (and what about all those pesticides and fungicides and mitecides??). people like that don't believe my nutrients are just in their elemental form--and TechnaFlora uses very little fossil fuel-based sources (which is the primary reason for organic fertilizers IMO--unless you're in the same soil beds year after year). i want them in their elemental form because they are immediately available for uptake AND i can control my nutrient ratios and levels and my soil pH!!! i used to fight with my outdoor grow partner relentlessly about this. just two years of dealing with large outdoor sites here and i'm DONE. Some older people and I joke that we're in the middle of Humboldt County and we have to grow our own weed to get what we want! Alot of people here need to, in my opinion, JUST SHUT UP AND GROW BETTER WEED. THANK GOD FOR THE RISE OF 'LIGHT DEP' (LMAO).

And on all that, I'll remain a bitch thank you. :( Sorry for the rant...

 

[MIMedGrower]

Love this! Did you do much reading or did you pick this up from observation? I'm a bookworm so i'm reading a bunch of research that confirms that the blue end added to the red and far-red does reduce stretch more than just red alone--and it's the combo that signals the plant to flower earlier and for less time. So i'm seeing across the literature that there needs to be a combo of wavelengths. I hadn't heard of the Emerson effect--apparently there is a secondary Emerson effect too. I KNOW NOTHING--I'M JUST READING. I LOVE THIS DISCUSSION. Apparently the far-red has to be supplemented by a shorter wave-length (blue is a shorter wave right?) because the quantum yield of photosynthesis drops at the far-red end more quickly than is optimal.

They're also saying that it's not just metabolic increases from optimal PAR that's doing such great stuff. It's that the metabolic optimization leads to fuller gene expression...ooohhh the possibilities. THANK YOU ALL FOR HAVING PATIENCE WITH ME AS I SORT THROUGH THIS. WRITING IT HELPS ME. ALL RESPONSES WELCOME!

Its a good conversation. You have the right attitute! Better than mine. Lol. I tend to argue. :-)

I did both. Read for likely 1000’s of hours by now and have been growing for 5 years perpetually. Also have worked in the black market with commercial growers since the 80’s. Just never gardened before i got my medical card here in michigan.

When i joined the forums about 3 years ago i took some clones and tested all the main topics. Flushing to different light bulb types.

And all my results match the university agriculture info. For example. The university of michigan has been testing indoor grow lighting for years. They are now testing discreet colored diodes and specific growth.

Blue helps more with with compact leafy growth and continued plant health and red helps more with elongation and flowering.

The hortilux super hps is said to have 25% added blue and did better for resin production in my room than a cheap plantmax hps.

When i added a blue mh to the super hps resin went up even more. But so did leafier plants and buds. And yield went down.

Cmh further reduced yield. The mh was a 600w. But also helped keep plants shorter and greener.

I think 2 600 hortilux hps and one phillips 315 3100k for a 4x8 area would be about perfect for flowering.

Or of course a similar ratio with led. Which i bet 3000k setups are close to.

 

[MIMedGrower]

View attachment 856200 So my buddy sends a pic of his plant what is it bleached from light?

Definitely light bleaching.

 

[MIMedGrower]

@UncleRomulus and @MIMedGrower and anybody else i can ask: since this old dog is learning new tricks, may i ask what you do not like about the LEDs? I always used HPS and metal halide but damn the right LED sounds like a big improvement. I'd very much appreciate your thoughts...

I just think they are too expensive still. I just got 2 solis tek digital ballasts for just over $200 shipped.

I will get them eventually. Likely build them for the savings. The samsung strips seem perfect for my low ceilings. I could match my present watts and increase yield in the same space without losing quality.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I might be wrong but looking for a nice par value across the entire canopy evenly distributed to get maximum light intensity to the tops of each plant to maximize flower size but apparently there’s even more cause spectrum plays a roll to bid I need to read more journals and learn about that next. There’s a cool YouTube video of a guy growing lettuce under different colored lights and they all respond different. I’m gonna start there. I would post it but it’s not copying for some reason.

The efficiency info of the led lamps is true. Seems 30% or more over hps.

But dont think the side by sides are a good representation. Growers work their lights. My results are far better now with the same gear as i started with.

The lights in these tests are usually left fixed in position. Doesn't prove much in my opinion.

Take with grain of salt so to speak.

 

[MIMedGrower]

apparently, not just different species do best under differing protocols, but different cultivars want different arrangements too. it's not one size fits all. i'm attaching a paper you might find interesting--the experiment is well-designed. many experiments with cannabis are not--alot is by people who either don't know herb well enough or people who don't know research design well enough.

Nice article.

Also search for universiry of michigan and universiry of utah for light spectrum and plant growth.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Bro you say hid is not dead but at the moment most high end leds have higher umol/j output and when you apply the mccree curve, they produce even higher efficiency. Sorry, i know people love their cmhs and they seem like they are pretty cool but leds are just beginning their journey. My led grown buds are so fragrant i’m actually worried a bit about arousing unwanted attention to myself while they’re drying. Just my 2 cents.

People say how fragrant and tasty my hps bud is compared to even their outdoor grows. And i know it is more potent than samples i have tried. But it did not used to be. I have had much practice now. :-)

The lighting of course has effect but envirenment and the individual grow has more influence in my opinion.

Moving the hid bulbs away from the plants during ripening helps quality immensely.

 

[UncleRomulus]

Bro you say hid is not dead but at the moment most high end leds have higher umol/j output and when you apply the mccree curve, they produce even higher efficiency. Sorry, i know people love their cmhs and they seem like they are pretty cool but leds are just beginning their journey. My led grown buds are so fragrant i’m actually worried a bit about arousing unwanted attention to myself while they’re drying. Just my 2 cents.

Cool story bro.. doesn’t real negate mine but glad your happy

 

[Highkev]

People say how fragrant and tasty my hps bud is compared to even their outdoor grows. And i know it is more potent than samples i have tried. But it did not used to be. I have had much practice now. :)

The lighting of course has effect but envirenment and the individual grow has more influence in my opinion.

Moving the hid bulbs away from the plants during ripening helps quality immensely.

How does it help and how far away should you move them and when?

 

[MIMedGrower]

How does it help and how far away should you move them and when?

A ripening plant is weaker. I see the heat stress at the top and less trichomes than the lower buds so i move the plant down an inch or two to take the intensity off. You can see the leaves relax. And in a day or so more trichomes too.


Anything i do i do watching the plants reaction. Any guidelines given online or written in books are just that, guidelines. Every room, plant and grower are different so we have to learn to recognize what our plants tell us.

The little improvements add up and give us more potent bud and more of it.

 

[OldManRiver]

@MIMedGrower , I leafed through that article on the emerson effect, and couldn't really draw much of a conclusion, other than that red light is helpful. How do you translate this into practice?

 

[MIMedGrower]

@MIMedGrower , I leafed through that article on the emerson effect, and couldn't really draw much of a conclusion, other than that red light is helpful. How do you translate this into practice?

I dont remember linking article about emerson effect. Am i just stoned?

 

[OldManRiver]

I dont remember linking article about emerson effect. Am i just stoned?

Nope, I am, it was @SinCity

 

[mattb]

You guys seem very knowledgeable can i ask an led question this light is 8x cree 3950's@550w/dimmable hung in a 4x4 mammoth tent they are roughly 6ft tall tent its on a lightrail mover.

How close would you hang it at various stages i dont think i can even use it full power in veg.