HALP! CMH lights- what is going on?

[Tasty Buds]

Additionally, I heard that I need to raise PH to 6.5. I did so last nights first feeding of nutes for big and medium size girls. They are greener because of that too, I am sure.

Ok, I took for granted you're in coco? Is that correct?
If soil, 6.5-7, 6.7 being optimal. In coco, 5.7-6.2 is un range 5.9 being optimal. If you have been out of that range in either, that completly explains your issues.
So before I go any further, what is your grow medium?

 

[Thetinman]

No, believe it or not, I am using PROMIX at 30% pearlite.

 

[Thetinman]

Its your standard issue stuff. I always kept at 6.3-6.4, as a known standard....

 

[Thetinman]

Never heard of going above 6.4.

 

[Thetinman]

Ok, I took for granted you're in coco? Is that correct?
If soil, 6.5-7, 6.7 being optimal. In coco, 5.7-6.2 is un range 5.9 being optimal. If you have been out of that range in either, that completly explains your issues.
So before I go any further, what is your grow medium?

That's facinating actually. Where do like sitting with yours personally?
This is ALL new to me dude...

 

[Tasty Buds]

No, believe it or not, I am using PROMIX at 30% pearlite.

Ok, Pro Mix is Peat. That is my least favorite medium. It should be treated like coco. Optimal ph being 5.9-6.1, HOWEVER, there are problems with Pro Mix. They add lime to Sunshine, Pro mix etc, as peat naturally tends to drop in ph for a few reasons.
Check the ph of your run off. Tell me the ph going in, and I'll solve your issues!
I'm sorry, the light had nothing to do with your issues.
Plants use the light it needs. Light that's in the correct spectrum, and disgards the rest.
Like I said, tell me ph in, and runoff (as well as ppms)
Once corrected, you may very well have problems in flower, but well take care of that if the time comes

 

[Frankster]

Stretch is spectrum related not so much intensity

I notice this quite a bit, actually. I get very little stretch with these new lights, even when I back them off

 

[Frankster]

Dude, I just got here.
The thing is this,I am a PTSD survivor, Class I rating from the V.A. Now for those doubters, I was in the USAF, overseas there is a tini base there, I happened to be somewhere I should not have been. But had been cleared to do so.
I was caught in an unusual situation. The veit cong called it "whispering death" by the telltale shrill of like a deer whistle that projects about a mile ahead of aircraft, which I heard distinctly.
Aircraft was practicing maneuvers, which travels at high speed at low heights. Passed directly over me being outside, at 800mph at approx 80' high. Classified at the time...
That craft was the F111.

Traumatized by an Aardvark, why would they name a tactical attack aircraft/strategic nuclear bomber after an ant eater? (I was an AO in the Navy)

 

[Tasty Buds]

I notice this quite a bit, actually. I get very little stretch with these new lights, even when I back them off

Aquaman. I know you know what you're doing, but I have to question the stretch being spectrum related, UNLESS the plants are not getting enough usable light?
From what I do know of CMH's, the usable light (Red/Blues) are more abundant, so the plants should grow quicker, and take up more nutrients. Isn't that correct?

I never got a CMH, as it only had 315 watts behind it. I believe they were coming out with a 630 watt lamp back then. I would compare it to a 600 hps to see if there was a difference, and how much? All the grow shop salesman were really pushing CMH, as well as LED's. LEDs were around when I left, and they would produce decent tops, but that was it.
As for stretch, IME it's genetic. A guy drove from Indiana, as I told him I'd give him a cut of CD to hold, and grow, just incase I ever lost mine. He wasn't doing well in his garden, due to crap genetics (yield wise, and 600's and not 1K's)
I didn't really want his strain, as I'm always weary of bringing a foreign plant around (bugs, etc). I isolated it (BTW the strain was called Indiana Horse Hair).
Once I was sure it was clean, I grew it out. He said he couldn't get it to stretch, and stack.
Anyway, we both used hps, and I grew it under a 600 at my house, and did get it to strech, and stack. It just didn't produce big, hard colas. I will say it was very potent, and tested low 20's, with next to no CBD. I did'nt even cross it .

Anyway, if I were the OP, I'd pick up at least a 600 watt HPS/MH hood, and start nee plants in Rockwool blocks, and croutons..
With enough foor, look what a 6 inch rockwool blick could do. Best medium for fall, winter, and spring IME

 

[Frankster]

Aquaman. I know you know what you're doing, but I have to question the stretch being spectrum related, UNLESS the plants are not getting enough usable light?
From what I do know of CMH's, the usable light (Red/Blues) are more abundant, so the plants should grow quicker, and take up more nutrients. Isn't that correct?

I never got a CMH, as it only had 315 watts behind it. I believe they were coming out with a 630 watt lamp back then. I would compare it to a 600 hps to see if there was a difference, and how much? All the grow shop salesman were really pushing CMH, as well as LED's. LEDs were around when I left, and they would produce decent tops, but that was it.
As for stretch, IME it's genetic. A guy drove from Indiana, as I told him I'd give him a cut of CD to hold, and grow, just incase I ever lost mine. He wasn't doing well in his garden, due to crap genetics (yield wise, and 600's and not 1K's)
I didn't really want his strain, as I'm always weary of bringing a foreign plant around (bugs, etc). I isolated it (BTW the strain was called Indiana Horse Hair).
Once I was sure it was clean, I grew it out. He said he couldn't get it to stretch, and stack.
Anyway, we both used hps, and I grew it under a 600 at my house, and did get it to strech, and stack. It just didn't produce big, hard colas. I will say it was very potent, and tested low 20's, with next to no CBD. I did'nt even cross it .

Anyway, if I were the OP, I'd pick up at least a 600 watt HPS/MH hood, and start nee plants in Rockwool blocks, and croutons..
With enough foor, look what a 6 inch rockwool blick could do. Best medium for fall, winter, and spring IMEView attachment 1107821

My guess is that much of this is developmental stage linked. The current developmental stage, and what's being used, (spectrum) and when... and how much (intensity), and timing. (especially more so with photo-periods, and even ever more so more true (than anything) w/specifically sativa dominate photo-periods genes). aka Strain dependent.

Sativas are the strains that exhibit the most challenging problems with inter-noding. ( excessive stretching).

The morphology of the flowering plants after 46 days of the short-day period differed significantly between the LED light treatments and the HPS treatment. Plants grown under NS1 and AP673L were shorter and more compact compared to those grown under the HPS treatment. The plants grown under HPS were significantly taller and had higher stem dry weight compared to those grown under the LED light treatments




As well as providing the energy for photosynthesis, light also acts as an information source for plants. Different light spectra give the plant an indication of its environment and therefore how it should survive, and hopefully thrive and reproduce. In this sense, the composition of the light is as important as the total quantity of light used for photosynthesis. The light spectrum in the range of 300 to 800 nm causes a developmental response in the plant. Additionally, UV and infrared (IR) light are known to play a role in plant morphogenesis.

A plant gains information from the light that reaches it by means of special pigments, called photoreceptors. These photoreceptors are sensitive to different wavelengths of the light spectrum.

Translated into discernible terms spectrum color is responsible for various spectrum of pigmented plant bio-molecules, including: chlorophylls, anthocyanins, carotenoids, and betalains. (among others) They account for most of the naturally derived colors in plants.

One can only surmise that Spectrum ratios play a direct role in the final color & pigmentation of the plant. Among other contributing factors such as temperature, humidity, nutrition, and other micro-climate conditions.

The effect of light spectrum on plant development | CANNA Gardening USA

www.cannagardening.com

 

[Frankster]

With my leds I get some weird looking plants, with small leaves and big root bases. Sometimes, I think I'm hitting them with so much spectrum, it's keeping the leaf size down to some extent. I'm probably overdoing it too, but I'm learning, but there's something to be gleaned from it.

I think strategies like this can be harnessed to drive plant growth early which will result in big gains down the road once fruiting starts. The plant only needs as much leaf as required to meet current metabolic needs. The plant is very efficient at knowing what to do, and when. There are many built in redundancies and mechanisms to "out compete" their neighbors, if given the opportunity.

Simply put, the plant is using different strategies to obtain maximum efficiency under the current climate conditions, but you've got to be really hitting on multiple cylinders to realize those huge growth spurts. All your ducks need to be in a neat little row, so to speak. But spectrum and intensity is sitting in the driver seat of it all.

Temp, Humidity, Water, Respiration, Nutrition, Media, Symbiosis. Those are the key factors in my mind.

 

[Ryboburton]

I notice this quite a bit, actually. I get very little stretch with these new lights, even when I back them off

Yep. Mine double at most. It’s manageable and I put them under two in flower in a 4x4 area

 

[Tasty Buds]

My guess is that much of this is developmental stage linked. The current developmental stage, and what's being used, (spectrum) and when... and how much (intensity), and timing. (especially more so with photo-periods, and even ever more so more true (than anything) w/specifically sativa dominate photo-periods genes). aka Strain dependent.

Sativas are the strains that exhibit the most challenging problems with inter-noding. ( excessive stretching).

The morphology of the flowering plants after 46 days of the short-day period differed significantly between the LED light treatments and the HPS treatment. Plants grown under NS1 and AP673L were shorter and more compact compared to those grown under the HPS treatment. The plants grown under HPS were significantly taller and had higher stem dry weight compared to those grown under the LED light treatments




As well as providing the energy for photosynthesis, light also acts as an information source for plants. Different light spectra give the plant an indication of its environment and therefore how it should survive, and hopefully thrive and reproduce. In this sense, the composition of the light is as important as the total quantity of light used for photosynthesis. The light spectrum in the range of 300 to 800 nm causes a developmental response in the plant. Additionally, UV and infrared (IR) light are known to play a role in plant morphogenesis.

A plant gains information from the light that reaches it by means of special pigments, called photoreceptors. These photoreceptors are sensitive to different wavelengths of the light spectrum.

Translated into discernible terms spectrum color is responsible for various spectrum of pigmented plant bio-molecules, including: chlorophylls, anthocyanins, carotenoids, and betalains. (among others) They account for most of the naturally derived colors in plants.

One can only surmise that Spectrum ratios play a direct role in the final color & pigmentation of the plant.

The effect of light spectrum on plant development | CANNA Gardening USA

www.cannagardening.com

I don't disagree with any oth that.
Hazes wouldn't finish until NL#5 was introduced because of many of the reasons stated above.
My favorite plant's to grow are usually 60+% Sativa.
When bred right, ya can get the best of both worlds. 9-10 week finish, nice stretch, anf finishes off with rock hard connected cola's.

You may appreciate this then. This is the only time this happened too.
I had a Grape Ape pheno in about 2004. It was a beaut 8n every way. I'm still upset I didn't keep 1 of the 2 S1's found in a LB.

Anyway, I was growing in a bathroom linen closet under a small HPS.
I had a veging plant by my sink under an old 125 watt CFL. When lights would go on in the closet at night, I'd open the door for air exchange, and would let the vegging plant get some light from the hps.
Next thing I know, and even under 24 hours of light, the spectrum from the hps made the vegging plant start to flower!
My guess is it had auto somewhere in it's lineage? I can't explain that incident, besides the deep yellow from the HPS triggered it to flower (hormones like you showed)
Since, even when using hps for veg, nothing like that had happened from mid 2000's until I started my time off.
Heres an old picture of GA grown under a 150hps in a 17x27?x36 inch closet.
Tasted just like grape Jolly Ranchers, super shiny leaves, and trics started developing real fast after the flip..
I did everything I could to get it to hermi, but it wouldn't. The 1st 2 pics were early in flower. It really packed on some size under a 150.
That was one that got awsy. I learned my lesson, and was sure ti keep elite genetics

.

 

[Tasty Buds]

With my leds I get some weird looking plants, with small leaves and big root bases. Sometimes, I think I'm hitting them with so much spectrum, it's keeping the leaf size down to some extent. I'm probably overdoing it too, but I'm learning, but there's something to be gleaned from it.

I think strategies like this can be harnessed to drive plant growth early which will result in big gains down the road once fruiting starts. The plant only needs as much leaf as required to meet current metabolic needs. The plant is very efficient at knowing what to do, and when. There are many built in redundancies and mechanisms to "out compete" their neighbors, if given the opportunity.

Simply put, the plant is using different strategies to obtain maximum efficiency under the current climate conditions, but you've got to be really hitting on multiple cylinders to realize those huge growth spurts. All your ducks need to be in a neat little row, so to speak. But spectrum and intensity is sitting in the driver seat of it all.

Temp, Humidity Water, Respiration, Nutrition, Symbiosis. Those are the key factors in my mind.

That was some "hot soil" ya see all the wood chips, and bark?. That could burn up a less hardy strain

 

[Frankster]

That was some "hot soil" ya see all the wood chips, and bark?. That could burn up a less hardy strain

I suppose it could, at that. I'm actually seeing some of that now, actually. But I think I've got it under control. It's coming around. I really do like this medium, because it's actually almost identical to the media were I want to plant these little guys, I just want to build up some good microbe protection for them first, so they've got a fighting chance in the wild.

There cultured with a large quantity of protective microbes, hopefully. They'll only have to live out there for about 60 days to make it, so it's entirely possible, and they should remain fairly short and stocky.

I think I'm going to put some of them in bags, so they have some protection from the surrounding fauna, might actually plant a few of the others. Much will depend on the immediate locations soil composition.

 

[Thetinman]

Traumatized by an Aardvark, why would they name a tactical attack aircraft/strategic nuclear bomber after an ant eater? (I was an AO in the Navy)

This bird rarely carries nukes. Tactical (aggressive in absolute control) of avoiding ground radar. By manuvers that allows pilots to switch on and will not bounce your bird off the ground.
Check out PAVTEC.
Come in hot at just under speed of sound under 100'....ya that's some serious shit.
Then the wizzo finds target with PAVTEC. Locks and follows laser onto target. Pilot pulls up only exposing button of bird. The does a sliding maneuver shifting bird immediately pointing at ground, comes in flattens out now pointing the other way from target.
Wizzo does the rest.
That's what I got caught under just after afterburners pulled back to lessen heat exposure, came over me directly.
You may have to do some math, or watch FireBird a Clint Eastwood movie, watch all the snow get blasted off the mountains passing.
Nose of bird has widened so much it's now flat barrier where you pass when you hit speed of sound. All animals get thrapped in its wake. Typically killed or wounded viet cong traveling ho chi min. All returning craft after missions would chaff that trail.
They called it wispering death.
Aardvarks scurry quickly almost in a panic, covering wide territories...

 

[Thetinman]

And! They woke up after 5 hrs dark, almost no yellowing at all! Will add another hour to the dark time and should clear everything up.
I still believe it's the lights. Never ever had a problem with promix, and coco never dried out! But the big girls just went through a 3.5 day turn on watering. They are transporating well and started noding up.
Pics in morning....

 

[Thetinman]

Ok, Pro Mix is Peat. That is my least favorite medium. It should be treated like coco. Optimal ph being 5.9-6.1, HOWEVER, there are problems with Pro Mix. They add lime to Sunshine, Pro mix etc, as peat naturally tends to drop in ph for a few reasons.
Check the ph of your run off. Tell me the ph going in, and I'll solve your issues!
I'm sorry, the light had nothing to do with your issues.
Plants use the light it needs. Light that's in the correct spectrum, and disgards the rest.
Like I said, tell me ph in, and runoff (as well as ppms)
Once corrected, you may very well have problems in flower, but well take care of that if the time comes

Well shit! So I need to drop ph? This is the biggest merry go round I have ever seen.
They still look like shit. I dont have a choice. 100 seeds have fried 10 different ways...
This is it. Or I will just shut down. Not getting everything I need obviously.

 

[Thetinman]

I believe I am staying with Ryboburton.
1 lb. per light....

 

[Thetinman]

Traumatized by an Aardvark, why would they name a tactical attack aircraft/strategic nuclear bomber after an ant eater? (I was an AO in the Navy)

They also had tailhooks.....