Hard Black Ash (no “bro” science plz)

[Dothraki]

I’ve read through all the threads on black ash, won’t burn right, harsh smoke etc. and there seems to be 2 groups... 1) “didn‘t flush” and 2) “didn’t dry & cure properly”

My question is for those in camp 2. Drying and curing. Nobody seems to elaborate on the dry and cure and what exactly leads to hard black ash that doesn‘t stay lit.

Dried for 10 days until buds felt crunchy, but still had some give to them if squeezed. Then jarred and burped a few times per day for about a week. I left a bud out in low humidity overnight until it was crunchy and still burns to black char instead of ash.

Buds were never sprayed, no PGRs, dried 10 days @ 59*F and 40-45% RH

So what exactly would need to be done to prevent the harsh flavorless smoke with nasty black char instead of light whispy ash? The buds smell amazing and the high is fantastic. Is a 10 day dry too short? Is jarring too early or too late responsible? Do I just need to let them sit in the jars longer and eventually the smoke will get more flavorful and smooth? Or is it doomed once you get that black charred ash?

 

[Homesteader]

I assume you were feeding liquid fertilizer? I have always believed it to be a result of high liquid nitrogen ferts towards the end of flower but I think it also may be somewhat genetic too. Also I think the ash shows a lot of excess mineral leftover.....magnesium taste in several products Ive tried resulted in unburned dark ash as well. A nice airey sativa vs a dense rock hard nug probably leaves different ash composites.

 

[Dothraki]

I assume you were feeding liquid fertilizer? I have always believed it to be a result of high liquid nitrogen ferts towards the end of flower but I think it also may be somewhat genetic too. Also I think the ash shows a lot of excess mineral leftover.....magnesium taste in several products Ive tried resulted in unburned dark ash as well. A nice airey sativa vs a dense rock hard nug probably leaves different ash composites.

Yes liquid nutrients. But I have yet to see anything that indicates different feedings will cause charred buds...unless you’re spraying it or feeding a very strange PGR or something. I’m open to hearing the explanation of how it works though and how it leads to black charry ash, if it is likely the cause.

I think a more likely scenario is that my hard tap water, when ran through my humidifier, is depositing calcium onto the buds for the entire grow. I am floored that nobody has ever thought to bring that up.

 

[Anthem]

Yes liquid nutrients. But I have yet to see anything that indicates different feedings will cause charred buds...unless you’re spraying it or feeding a very strange PGR or something. I’m open to hearing the explanation of how it works though and how it leads to black charry ash, if it is likely the cause.

I think a more likely scenario is that my hard tap water, when ran through my humidifier, is depositing calcium onto the buds for the entire grow. I am floored that nobody has ever thought to bring that up.

You kind of answered your own question. Run RO water thru your Humidifier like you are suppose too

 

[Dothraki]

You kind of answered your own question. Run RO water thru your Humidifier like you are suppose too

Yeah I guess lesson learned...first grow to waste. I didn’t notice it until I touched the sleeve on the air filter. It was built up pretty bad full of the white dust. Hope I didn’t cause any damage by smoking it.

 

[Homesteader]

I don't think calcium is causing black ash, I think it is nitrogen and potassium that is not being used up by the plant at the end. When you harvest, are your leaves still fairly green or are they drained and yellowed?? Sometimes strain dependent.

Just saw this article. I would just go easy on N towards the last three weeks. I don't think a flush would do much but a drop in N at the end of flower along with one may.

https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/article/white-ash-vs-black-ash-september-2021/

 

[Dothraki]

I don't think calcium is causing black ash, I think it is nitrogen and potassium that is not being used up by the plant at the end. When you harvest, are your leaves still fairly green or are they drained and yellowed?? Sometimes strain dependent.

Just saw this article. I would just go easy on N towards the last three weeks. I don't think a flush would do much but a drop in N at the end of flower along with one may.

https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/article/white-ash-vs-black-ash-september-2021/

So you don’t think the powdered calcium landing on the buds during their formation for 2+ months could do it? I hope youre right but seems calcium buildup on buds could keep them from staying lit properly and burning black.

 

[Homesteader]

So you don’t think the powdered calcium landing on the buds during their formation for 2+ months could do it? I hope youre right but seems calcium buildup on buds could keep them from staying lit properly and burning black.

Not really to be honest. Calcium carbonate doesn't burn and I don't know how it would adhere to the leaf for any longer than the next watering. Calcium itself is somewhere around 10% of cannabis dry weight, only second to carbon.

 

[sammyknows]

I’ve read through all the threads on black ash, won’t burn right, harsh smoke etc. and there seems to be 2 groups... 1) “didn‘t flush” and 2) “didn’t dry & cure properly”

My question is for those in camp 2. Drying and curing. Nobody seems to elaborate on the dry and cure and what exactly leads to hard black ash that doesn‘t stay lit.

Dried for 10 days until buds felt crunchy, but still had some give to them if squeezed. Then jarred and burped a few times per day for about a week. I left a bud out in low humidity overnight until it was crunchy and still burns to black char instead of ash.

Buds were never sprayed, no PGRs, dried 10 days @ 59*F and 40-45% RH

So what exactly would need to be done to prevent the harsh flavorless smoke with nasty black char instead of light whispy ash? The buds smell amazing and the high is fantastic. Is a 10 day dry too short? Is jarring too early or too late responsible? Do I just need to let them sit in the jars longer and eventually the smoke will get more flavorful and smooth? Or is it doomed once you get that black charred ash?

Black ash is the result of sprays in late flower. Already been a huge writeup on this. There isn't any question anymore that the only reason to flush is to save money on nutrients. if you have a proper dry room temp over a long enough period (closer to 2 weeks) you have all of the time to let that excess chlorophyll to break down.

 

[Homesteader]

Personally I don't like anything but dry dry bud to smoke. Maybe you just are to humid?

 

[sammyknows]

Black ash is the result of sprays in late flower. Already been a huge writeup on this. There isn't any question anymore that the only reason to flush is to save money on nutrients. if you have a proper dry room temp over a long enough period (closer to 2 weeks) you have all of the time to let that excess chlorophyll to break down.

"By establishing a relationship between cumulative water potential (cWP) and cumulative vapour pressure deficit (cVPD) an irrigation management strategy that predicted plant water status based on measurements of cVPD could be employed. Three treatments; control (irrigation events every 1-2 days), mild-stress (irrigation events every 2 days), and moderate-stress (irrigation events every 3 days) were tested. The effects of flushing were also investigated to determine whether it had the intended effect of reducing nutrient concentrations within the dried bud. Through the use of psychrometers, water status (cWP) thresholds were correlated with humidity (cVPD) thresholds and reduced irrigation frequency resulting in water use reductions up to 45.7% which had negligible impacts on yield and cannabinoid profile. Flushing was found to be ineffective in removing any significant amount of nutrient from the bud."

This would debunk the myth that bud that burns black hasn't been flushed properly, as even using traditional flushing techniques does not affect the composition of nutrients in the plant matter.

 

[Peat_Phreak]

Black ash means the weed isn't dry enough. Similar to putting a wet log on fire. To get a complete burn and white ash, the material has to be adequately dry. It has nothing to do with flushing. It has nothing to do with feeding N until the end. Your black ash bud is too wet.

Now that does not mean, the weed has to be bone dry. A steady 55-58% always produces white ash for me. Higher than that gets progressively less white.

 

[growsince79]

I’ve read through all the threads on black ash, won’t burn right, harsh smoke etc. and there seems to be 2 groups... 1) “didn‘t flush” and 2) “didn’t dry & cure properly”

My question is for those in camp 2. Drying and curing. Nobody seems to elaborate on the dry and cure and what exactly leads to hard black ash that doesn‘t stay lit.

Dried for 10 days until buds felt crunchy, but still had some give to them if squeezed. Then jarred and burped a few times per day for about a week. I left a bud out in low humidity overnight until it was crunchy and still burns to black char instead of ash.

Buds were never sprayed, no PGRs, dried 10 days @ 59*F and 40-45% RH

So what exactly would need to be done to prevent the harsh flavorless smoke with nasty black char instead of light whispy ash? The buds smell amazing and the high is fantastic. Is a 10 day dry too short? Is jarring too early or too late responsible? Do I just need to let them sit in the jars longer and eventually the smoke will get more flavorful and smooth? Or is it doomed once you get that black charred ash?

I'm wondering how they didn't turn to dust @ 40rh for 10 days. Try drying at 60% with good air flow and see it it makes a difference.

 

[Moshmen]

I don't think calcium is causing black ash, I think it is nitrogen and potassium that is not being used up by the plant at the end. When you harvest, are your leaves still fairly green or are they drained and yellowed?? Sometimes strain dependent.

Just saw this article. I would just go easy on N towards the last three weeks. I don't think a flush would do much but a drop in N at the end of flower along with one may.

https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/article/white-ash-vs-black-ash-september-2021/

I have No science to support but I’ve recently had grows where I ran pure blend pro grow the entire cycle end product burns fantastic but lacks other terps,
Next grow same strain only difference is this time I used flier nutes pure blend bloom - more pk- tapered not flushed at the end . This batch had more flavor more smell but didn’t burn as well . Next round will still use flower booster and flush and see if there is a difference.

 

[Moshmen]

I’ve read through all the threads on black ash, won’t burn right, harsh smoke etc. and there seems to be 2 groups... 1) “didn‘t flush” and 2) “didn’t dry & cure properly”

My question is for those in camp 2. Drying and curing. Nobody seems to elaborate on the dry and cure and what exactly leads to hard black ash that doesn‘t stay lit.

Dried for 10 days until buds felt crunchy, but still had some give to them if squeezed. Then jarred and burped a few times per day for about a week. I left a bud out in low humidity overnight until it was crunchy and still burns to black char instead of ash.

Buds were never sprayed, no PGRs, dried 10 days @ 59*F and 40-45% RH

So what exactly would need to be done to prevent the harsh flavorless smoke with nasty black char instead of light whispy ash? The buds smell amazing and the high is fantastic. Is a 10 day dry too short? Is jarring too early or too late responsible? Do I just need to let them sit in the jars longer and eventually the smoke will get more flavorful and smooth? Or is it doomed once you get that black charred ash?

Some would say you still dried to fast with that low humidity? 60/60 I believe is the starting point

 

[Dothraki]

Some would say you still dried to fast with that low humidity? 60/60 I believe is the starting point

Yeah it’s really hard to get 60% right now, even with the humidifier on full blast...but, at a steady 59*F they did go a good 10 days until feeling crispy, but enough moisture to where stems did not snap off...just “snapped” like a piece of cardboard would. Could be my hygrometer is off and it was actually closer to 50%? hard to tell which hygrometer is accurate out of all of them lol. The AC infinity reads 10% higher than the other 3 different brands I have.

 

[Dothraki]

Not really to be honest. Calcium carbonate doesn't burn and I don't know how it would adhere to the leaf for any longer than the next watering. Calcium itself is somewhere around 10% of cannabis dry weight, only second to carbon.

Well I was thinking as the moist air containing the calcium passes over the buds it gets captured like it did in my carbon filter which looked like there was a little fat balding Hitler making donuts in my tent for the past 3 months.

 

[KingOfUranus]

Yeah it’s really hard to get 60% right now, even with the humidifier on full blast...but, at a steady 59*F they did go a good 10 days until feeling crispy, but enough moisture to where stems did not snap off...just “snapped” like a piece of cardboard would. Could be my hygrometer is off and it was actually closer to 50%? hard to tell which hygrometer is accurate out of all of them lol. The AC infinity reads 10% higher than the other 3 different brands I have.

Put them back on the drying rack for another 7-10 days.
They do go crispy at first, and even crumbly, the stems snap, but this isnt ready yet. This is just a stage. They will go past that and after bout 7-10 more days will firm up with a slight bounce to them when squeezed. The small stems on the buds can even go back to bending a little bit before snapping sometimes. The smell will come back and your fingers will be sticky after you've squeezed a bud.
Back on the rack they go.
(Short answer, yes drying time was probably too short at 10 days, this time).

 

[Ponky]

If I smoke my nice cured buds inside with no wind in the right humidity it burns nice and sweet. With nice light ashes. Smoke the same weed outside on a damp cold day and the ashes are darker and it burns worse. So it isn't always the weed.

 

[Peat_Phreak]

And the cure doesn't even have to be a proper long cure. I can do a one day speed cure with the assistance of an oven. If I get the quick cured bud to finish with less than 60% humidity, the ash will be white.