Help Needed, Weed Not Cloudy

[The3rdman]

I recently finished with 2 indica strains, K2 and Kosher Kush. I flowered them 11 weeks and the trichomes did not get fully cloudy (I would estimate about 10% of trichomes were cloudy). Both plants had few deficiencies which were identified and resolved in a timely fashion. The plants produced between 10-11 ounces of dried flower.

This has been a recurring problem and I am looking for some advice, theories, or explanations of why I am unable to produce a potent product.

Lighting: 250 Watt HPS + LED lighting as supplemental.
Dirt: 10 Gallon Smart Pot, Happy Frog Potting Soil with 2 quarts compost, 1/2 cup 4-4-4, and 1 cup Dolomite Lime added.
Soil pH 6.8.
Nutrients: NPK Raw Organic Nutrients
Watering: Water pH 6.3 - 6-5.
Temperature: 75-80.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

I recently finished with 2 indica strains, K2 and Kosher Kush. I flowered them 11 weeks and the trichomes did not get fully cloudy (I would estimate about 10% of trichomes were cloudy). Both plants had few deficiencies which were identified and resolved in a timely fashion. The plants produced between 10-11 ounces of dried flower.

This has been a recurring problem and I am looking for some advice, theories, or explanations of why I am unable to produce a potent product.

Lighting: 250 Watt HPS + LED lighting as supplemental.
Dirt: 10 Gallon Smart Pot, Happy Frog Potting Soil with 2 quarts compost, 1/2 cup 4-4-4, and 1 cup Dolomite Lime added.
Soil pH 6.8.
Nutrients: NPK Raw Organic Nutrients
Watering: Water pH 6.3 - 6-5.
Temperature: 75-80.

It sounds like you're harvesting too soon. Those breeder estimates are based on optimal environment and nutrition. For the hobby home grower, it can be a challenge to hit those optimal targets. It's not uncommon for plants to take longer to fully mature. Instead of going by the number of weeks, go by the trichomes and don't harvest until it's cloudy with a bit of amber. You'll want a jeweler's loop or a digital microscope that will pair with your smart phone for inspection.

 

[GNick55]

It sounds like you're harvesting too soon. Those breeder estimates are based on optimal environment and nutrition. For the hobby home grower, it can be a challenge to hit those optimal targets. It's not uncommon for plants to take longer to fully mature. Instead of going by the number of weeks, go by the trichomes and don't harvest until it's cloudy with a bit of amber. You'll want a jeweler's loop or a digital microscope that will pair with your smart phone for inspection.

^^^^this^^^^

 

[Buzzzz]

I recently finished with 2 indica strains, K2 and Kosher Kush. I flowered them 11 weeks and the trichomes did not get fully cloudy (I would estimate about 10% of trichomes were cloudy). Both plants had few deficiencies which were identified and resolved in a timely fashion. The plants produced between 10-11 ounces of dried flower.

This has been a recurring problem and I am looking for some advice, theories, or explanations of why I am unable to produce a potent product.

Lighting: 250 Watt HPS + LED lighting as supplemental.
Dirt: 10 Gallon Smart Pot, Happy Frog Potting Soil with 2 quarts compost, 1/2 cup 4-4-4, and 1 cup Dolomite Lime added.
Soil pH 6.8.
Nutrients: NPK Raw Organic Nutrients
Watering: Water pH 6.3 - 6-5.
Temperature: 75-80.

Are you waiting until the calyx's are swelled like they have seeds in them? As Mygrampa mentioned you're probably harvesting early and the glands are not ripe.

 

[Buzzzz]

^^^^this^^^^

I take samples and nuke them ,you should get a noticible buzz even in veg when they go to alternate phylotaxy or I drop it,especially males.

 

[TSD]

Yeah can't just count weeks... I usually completely lose track of how old my plants even are pretty early on. Need to go by overall look as well as trichomes... if she's not ready, just don't chop. Maybe she's not fully maturing because you're stopping nutes too soon believing she's almost ready when she's not?

 

[The3rdman]

It sounds like you're harvesting too soon. Those breeder estimates are based on optimal environment and nutrition. For the hobby home grower, it can be a challenge to hit those optimal targets. It's not uncommon for plants to take longer to fully mature. Instead of going by the number of weeks, go by the trichomes and don't harvest until it's cloudy with a bit of amber. You'll want a jeweler's loop or a digital microscope that will pair with your smart phone for inspection.

I agree with you on those breeder estimates -- I just figured that 11 weeks should be more than enough time to see more than 10% trichomes. I did use a jeweler's loupe but saw no changes in trichome ripening from week 9-11. How many weeks do you think I should be waiting?

Buit, I don't think I am harvesting too soon. The Kosher Kush leaves started yellowing in week 9 and was completely yellow by week 11. Plants need green leaves for photosynthesis. Could it be the plants are getting insufficient nutrients for the ripening process?

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

I agree with you on those breeder estimates -- I just figured that 11 weeks should be more than enough time to see more than 10% trichomes. I did use a jeweler's loupe but saw no changes in trichome ripening from week 9-11. How many weeks do you think I should be waiting?

Buit, I don't think I am harvesting too soon. The Kosher Kush leaves started yellowing in week 9 and was completely yellow by week 11. Plants need green leaves for photosynthesis. Could it be the plants are getting insufficient nutrients for the ripening process?

Then you probably need an upgrade to your lighting. Your 250 watt HID light might be what is holding you back. Also, if you stop feed too soon, they don't have the nutrition to finish. There's actually a lot of potential reasons ... but if it were mine? I'd re-evaluate my lighting.

 

[The3rdman]

Then you probably need an upgrade to your lighting. Your 250 watt HID light might be what is holding you back. Also, if you stop feed too soon, they don't have the nutrition to finish. There's actually a lot of potential reasons ... but if it were mine? I'd re-evaluate my lighting.

I used a new HPS bulb, so it should be okay. I would not stop the feed unless the trichomes were cloudy. Unfortunately, the trichomes are not ripening as they should.

 

[Aqua Man]

Its done when its done… high nitrogen can extend flowering time

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

I used a new HPS bulb, so it should be okay. I would not stop the feed unless the trichomes were cloudy. Unfortunately, the trichomes are not ripening as they should.

Depends on how much space you're trying to light. Also a 240-250w quantum board style LED light will give you a huge boost. I've used HPS before. LED wins hands down. I happen to have a whole stack of them I'd sell at $100 each if a buyer had cash and was close enough to pick them up.

 

[The3rdman]

Then you probably need an upgrade to your lighting. Your 250 watt HID light might be what is holding you back. Also, if you stop feed too soon, they don't have the nutrition to finish. There's actually a lot of potential reasons ... but if it were mine? I'd re-evaluate my lighting.

In addition to the 250 Watt HPS light, I also used 12 100 Watt equivalent LED bulbs (2700K), to supplement the HPS light.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

In addition to the 250 Watt HPS light, I also used 12 100 Watt equivalent LED bulbs (2700K), to supplement the HPS light.

@The3rdman Those 12 100w "equivelent" are not the same as a 1200 watt LED which is what those marketing numbers are trying to suggest. What are those drawing from the wall? 13watts or something like that? So in actuality you have only boosted the lighting by approximately 150w ... Now, no one here will tell you that you can't grow with what you have because you certainly can. You can even grow some really dank bud but yield will still be less than the equivalent watts in an LED grow light. I wanted to clarify that before you think something that I don't mean ...

Originally you asked why your plants didn't finish in 11 weeks like the breeder said. My response was it was due to less than ideal in either the environment or nutrition. Better lighting will help you move closer to the finish time the breeder suggests. So will proper nutrition, watering habits and temperature controls. From what you identified to me, your lighting can be improved and that will help but so will dotting the "I" and crossing the "T" on all those other variables. Got me so far? So here's where we are at ... with what you have, you can grow bud. You'll have slightly less in yield and a bit longer flower time. You can still grow great weed. You cannot grow great weed as quick as the breeder suggests due to the limitations of your setup.

 

[The3rdman]

@The3rdman Those 12 100w "equivelent" are not the same as a 1200 watt LED which is what those marketing numbers are trying to suggest. What are those drawing from the wall? 13watts or something like that? So in actuality you have only boosted the lighting by approximately 150w ... Now, no one here will tell you that you can't grow with what you have because you certainly can. You can even grow some really dank bud but yield will still be less than the equivalent watts in an LED grow light. I wanted to clarify that before you think something that I don't mean ...

Originally you asked why your plants didn't finish in 11 weeks like the breeder said. My response was it was due to less than ideal in either the environment or nutrition. Better lighting will help you move closer to the finish time the breeder suggests. So will proper nutrition, watering habits and temperature controls. From what you identified to me, your lighting can be improved and that will help but so will dotting the "I" and crossing the "T" on all those other variables. Got me so far? So here's where we are at ... with what you have, you can grow bud. You'll have slightly less in yield and a bit longer flower time. You can still grow great weed. You cannot grow great weed as quick as the breeder suggests due to the limitations of your setup.

I'm willing to try out the LED lighting. I have a small grow (2 plants) in a 2 X 5 area. How many watts do you recommend? Do the lights have a Veg and a Flower setting?

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

I'm willing to try out the LED lighting. I have a small grow (2 plants) in a 2 X 5 area. How many watts do you recommend? Do the lights have a Veg and a Flower setting?

Sure, with high efficiency LED grow lights, the rule of thumb would be loosely speaking, 30 watts per square feet. I run more, but I also use my dimmer. Think more in ppfd readings at the canopy of your plants. All LED grow lights will show that map. Just be sure to read the fine print. They may give you the ppfd at 6" or 12" or 18" so it's important to look for that.

2 x 5 = 10 sq ft.
10 x 30w per sq ft = 300 watts minimum

So now we have a pretty good target idea of what you need watts wise. I like bar lights but your space might be better suited to a pair of 200w to 240w quantum boards with DIMMERS. In a closet size area like yours, heat could be an issue so that's why I suggested to over light the room and then turn them down using the dimmer. Your room will be cooler and your lights will be of higher efficiency.

Some lights do have veg and flower settings, but not all. Myself, I have more than one tent ... 3 that I use regularly. My flower tent has 2 Growers Choice ROI-E720's in it lighting up a bit more than 32 sq ft. I use my dimmer there. I also have extra reds in the tent as well. Red light waves improve flowering.

In my veg tent, I use 4ft 5000k T-8 style shop lights that I zip tied to a 2 x 4 piece of peg board. I have 6 of them in there. The blue light in the 5000k keeps my plants shorter than when I was using either 3000k or 3500k quantum boards. Simply put, I like the blue for veg and I bought 10 of those shop lights off of Amazon for under $100.00. They are inexpensive and work better than my much more expensive grow lights do for veg.

 

[The3rdman]

Sure, with high efficiency LED grow lights, the rule of thumb would be loosely speaking, 30 watts per square feet. I run more, but I also use my dimmer. Think more in ppfd readings at the canopy of your plants. All LED grow lights will show that map. Just be sure to read the fine print. They may give you the ppfd at 6" or 12" or 18" so it's important to look for that.

2 x 5 = 10 sq ft.
10 x 30w per sq ft = 300 watts minimum

So now we have a pretty good target idea of what you need watts wise. I like bar lights but your space might be better suited to a pair of 200w to 240w quantum boards with DIMMERS. In a closet size area like yours, heat could be an issue so that's why I suggested to over light the room and then turn them down using the dimmer. Your room will be cooler and your lights will be of higher efficiency.

Some lights do have veg and flower settings, but not all. Myself, I have more than one tent ... 3 that I use regularly. My flower tent has 2 Growers Choice ROI-E720's in it lighting up a bit more than 32 sq ft. I use my dimmer there. I also have extra reds in the tent as well. Red light waves improve flowering.

In my veg tent, I use 4ft 5000k T-8 style shop lights that I zip tied to a 2 x 4 piece of peg board. I have 6 of them in there. The blue light in the 5000k keeps my plants shorter than when I was using either 3000k or 3500k quantum boards. Simply put, I like the blue for veg and I bought 10 of those shop lights off of Amazon for under $100.00. They are inexpensive and work better than my much more expensive grow lights do for veg.

When you suggest 300W, is that wattage from the wall?

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

Absolutely. It's the only true reading ... that and its output in umols.

Amazon has sellers trying to make outlandish claims ... 1000w grow lights. You look at what it draws from the wall and its 150 watts. Don't fall for that.

 

[TSD]

Sure, with high efficiency LED grow lights, the rule of thumb would be loosely speaking, 30 watts per square feet. I run more, but I also use my dimmer. Think more in ppfd readings at the canopy of your plants. All LED grow lights will show that map. Just be sure to read the fine print. They may give you the ppfd at 6" or 12" or 18" so it's important to look for that.

2 x 5 = 10 sq ft.
10 x 30w per sq ft = 300 watts minimum

So now we have a pretty good target idea of what you need watts wise. I like bar lights but your space might be better suited to a pair of 200w to 240w quantum boards with DIMMERS. In a closet size area like yours, heat could be an issue so that's why I suggested to over light the room and then turn them down using the dimmer. Your room will be cooler and your lights will be of higher efficiency.

Some lights do have veg and flower settings, but not all. Myself, I have more than one tent ... 3 that I use regularly. My flower tent has 2 Growers Choice ROI-E720's in it lighting up a bit more than 32 sq ft. I use my dimmer there. I also have extra reds in the tent as well. Red light waves improve flowering.

In my veg tent, I use 4ft 5000k T-8 style shop lights that I zip tied to a 2 x 4 piece of peg board. I have 6 of them in there. The blue light in the 5000k keeps my plants shorter than when I was using either 3000k or 3500k quantum boards. Simply put, I like the blue for veg and I bought 10 of those shop lights off of Amazon for under $100.00. They are inexpensive and work better than my much more expensive grow lights do for veg.

I'll have to consult you guys when I'm ready to upgrade my light and actually try to grow inside.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

I'll have to consult you guys when I'm ready to upgrade my light and actually try to grow inside.

When you're ready, I'm sure you'll receive plenty of help from everyone ... myself included.

 

[The3rdman]

When you're ready, I'm sure you'll receive plenty of help from everyone ... myself included.

This is the light I purchased from Amazon:

VIVOSUN VS3000 LED Grow Light with Samsung LM301 Diodes & Daisy Chain Driver Dimmable Lights Sunlike Full Spectrum for Indoor Plants Seedling Veg and Bloom Plant Grow Lamps for 3x3/4x4 Grow Tent