Help! Nutrient Issue Diagnosis Needed?

[ChiT]

Using Canna Bio Terra with some amendments. Been dealing with nutrient issues. Added TM-7 and much of the problem was solved. Some leaves could be darker. Only major issue is more and more leaves are developing some type of dark burn along the veins of the leaves. Please advise...

 

[Grownsince95]

Looks like a possible phosphorus issue. I'm not familiar with your feed sorry but probably an uptake/ph issue rather than a lack of.

Quoted from my fav diagnosis page...

"Problems can arise simply because of a pH imbalance or nutrient antagonism. Commonly Phosphorus issues can arise when in the presence of large amounts of minors like zinc, boron and trace metals like Iron . And is known to be antagonistic with calcium, potassium."

 

[ChiT]

I’ve been using RO water In my weekly compost tea along with some down to Earth amendments. Also using citric acid to bring down PH. I don’t know whether to add nutrients, or cut back?

Tea:
EWC

Molasses
Terp Tea Veg by Roots Organics
Recharge
Fish Shit
Mychorizae
Kelp Liquid
TM-7 Trace Minerals

Sidenote: Soil is somewhat compressed from previous flush .

 

[Aqua Man]

Read Me First

Hey guys, im surprised something like this hasn't been posted before but better late than never. I know i don't make policy around here, but i would think everyone will agree with me on this. It's very hard to diagnose a plant when you don't have all the information at your finger tips. If...

www.thcfarmer.com

They look overall hungry and seeing a few deficiencies

 

[Aqua Man]

I’ve been using RO water In my weekly compost tea along with some down to Earth amendments. Also using citric acid to bring down PH. I don’t know whether to add nutrients, or cut back?

Tea:
EWC

Molasses
Terp Tea Veg by Roots Organics
Recharge
Fish Shit
Mychorizae
Kelp Liquid
TM-7 Trace Minerals

Sidenote: Soil is somewhat compressed from previous flush .

Why the flush?

So the flush can really put a dent in your microbes. With organics you DONT want runoff. Toss away the ppm meter and keep an eye on ph.

I would be adding back fish shit and myco with a good dose of tea. Drop the molasses and add half dose of cal mag.

 

[ChiT]

Soil Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones? Seed
2. How old are your plants? 80 days
3. How tall are your plants? 1’ 9”
4. What size containers are they planted in? 5g Air Bags
5. What is your soil mix? Canna Bio Terra , 10% Compost, 10% EWC, 5 % Perlite
6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use?
Using RO water as of a month ago.
7. What is the pH of your water?
Use Citrix Acid to bring down to 6.3 after nutrients added
8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio?
7-1-1 Terp Tea with compost and EWC in compost tea. 9.
Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything?
Was foliar feeding with liquid kelp before I recently switched to 12/12
10. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights") LED Bars 650-700 PPFD
11. How close are your lights to the plants? 24”
12. What size is your grow space in square feet? 4x4 Tent
13. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space?
RH 45-55%, 74F Day, 68F Night
14. What is the pH of the soil?
Seems to consistently measure at 7.0 with digital soil Ph meter
15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space?
Had a fungus gnat issue over a month ago, took care of it. Nothing since
16. How much experience do you have growing? Second time....Made the mistake of trying to create a super soil without properly cooking. Only realized it in retrospect

 

[Aqua Man]

Soil Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones? Seed
2. How old are your plants? 80 days
3. How tall are your plants? 1’ 9”
4. What size containers are they planted in? 5g Air Bags
5. What is your soil mix? Canna Bio Terra , 10% Compost, 10% EWC, 5 % Perlite
6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use?
Using RO water as of a month ago.
7. What is the pH of your water?
Use Citrix Acid to bring down to 6.3 after nutrients added
8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio?
7-1-1 Terp Tea with compost and EWC in compost tea. 9.
Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything?
Was foliar feeding with liquid kelp before I recently switched to 12/12
10. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights") LED Bars 650-700 PPFD
11. How close are your lights to the plants? 24”
12. What size is your grow space in square feet? 4x4 Tent
13. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space?
RH 45-55%, 74F Day, 68F Night
14. What is the pH of the soil?
Seems to consistently measure at 7.0 with digital soil Ph meter
15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space?
Had a fungus gnat issue over a month ago, took care of it. Nothing since
16. How much experience do you have growing? Second time....Made the mistake of trying to create a super soil without properly cooking. Only realized it in retrospect

Yuo follow last post and give it a week to see results in new growth only.

 

[ChiT]

Will do...what about the TM-7? Should I keep using it?

 

[Aqua Man]

Will do...what about the TM-7? Should I keep using it?

Yeah I would.

 

[Flexnerb]

Will do...what about the TM-7? Should I keep using it?

Make sure you are doing your math brother. That micro is hot hot....very good stuff homesteader has spoken pretty well of it.

Your ph is 7. Your runoff is seven? Huh? You could get powdered gypsum greenway biotech makes a good product.....is there any ammonium nitrogen in any of your ferts? Nitrates?

 

[GREENSOURCE]

Soil Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones? Seed
2. How old are your plants? 80 days
3. How tall are your plants? 1’ 9”
4. What size containers are they planted in? 5g Air Bags
5. What is your soil mix? Canna Bio Terra , 10% Compost, 10% EWC, 5 % Perlite
6. How often do you water and what type of water do you use?
Using RO water as of a month ago.
7. What is the pH of your water?
Use Citrix Acid to bring down to 6.3 after nutrients added
8. What kind of fertilizer do you use and what is its NPK ratio?
7-1-1 Terp Tea with compost and EWC in compost tea. 9.
Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything?
Was foliar feeding with liquid kelp before I recently switched to 12/12
10. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights") LED Bars 650-700 PPFD
11. How close are your lights to the plants? 24”
12. What size is your grow space in square feet? 4x4 Tent
13. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space?
RH 45-55%, 74F Day, 68F Night
14. What is the pH of the soil?
Seems to consistently measure at 7.0 with digital soil Ph meter
15. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space?
Had a fungus gnat issue over a month ago, took care of it. Nothing since
16. How much experience do you have growing? Second time....Made the mistake of trying to create a super soil without properly cooking. Only realized it in retrospect

DAMN!

 

[ChiT]

Make sure you are doing your math brother. That micro is hot hot....very good stuff homesteader has spoken pretty well of it.

Your ph is 7. Your runoff is seven? Huh? You could get powdered gypsum greenway biotech makes a good product.....is there any ammonium nitrogen in any of your ferts? Nitrates?

Digital Soil PH meter was used. I was hoping 7 ph was okay as this is technically an organic grow. Any fertilizer/tea I’m using has soluble and insoluble nitrogen. I do have a pack of NPK raw 20-0-0 ammoniacal nitrogen as a backup, but have not yet used. As of this point, i’m not too worried about the organic aspect of this run. Should I use the Raw Nitrogen? If so, how much? Instructions seem to be particular to hydro? Assuming that helps, I still have this burn issue. Also, just remembered I may have used a little extra TM-7 in the feeding 4 days ago (1.5x of recommended dose. I think I may have got excited when I saw it was affective on the first use. Any chance that caused it?

 

[Toxciteemo]

I thought ph 7 was to much ? I’m new don’t quote me 6-6.5 is where it should be right ?

 

[Flexnerb]

Digital Soil PH meter was used. I was hoping 7 ph was okay as this is technically an organic grow. Any fertilizer/tea I’m using has soluble and insoluble nitrogen. I do have a pack of NPK raw 20-0-0 ammoniacal nitrogen as a backup, but have not yet used. As of this point, i’m not too worried about the organic aspect of this run. Should I use the Raw Nitrogen? If so, how much? Instructions seem to be particular to hydro? Assuming that helps, I still have this burn issue. Also, just remembered I may have used a little extra TM-7 in the feeding 4 days ago (1.5x of recommended dose. I think I may have got excited when I saw it was affective on the first use. Any chance that caused it?

Raw is organic? I dont think so!! You arent organic....lol! Even if it is a "back up" I'd only use it to lower ph in soil.

What is tm 7 rec dose? Imo i wouldnt use more than a few ml's to 5 gallons of water...its .7% zinc for crying out loud.....i would give 1/10th of a teaspoon per gal if that. Im just ball parking the math. I might be off by a bunch. It could be 1ml per 5 gal...im not sure @Homesteader would know more about it.

Just looked at my earth juice microblast it has .05% zinc. Roughly 15X more zinc than my microblast...lol....that could bring on other issues too...not good! That could be where your burning is from. Im not exp enough yo give plant health advice...lol

Oh and maybe bump up ther perlite next time 5% more isnt enough....10% wc and compost added...you need more perlite like 20 to 30 more

 

[mattb]

Bump your Temps up 5 degrees. Makes a world of difference

 

[Aqua Man]

Raw is organic? I dont think so!! You arent organic....lol! Even if it is a "back up" I'd only use it to lower ph in soil.

What is tm 7 rec dose? Imo i wouldnt use more than a few ml's to 5 gallons of water...its .7% zinc for crying out loud.....i would give 1/10th of a teaspoon per gal if that. Im just ball parking the math. I might be off by a bunch. It could be 1ml per 5 gal...im not sure @Homesteader would know more about it.

Just looked at my earth juice microblast it has .05% zinc. Roughly 15X more zinc than my microblast...lol....that could bring on other issues too...not good! That could be where your burning is from. Im not exp enough yo give plant health advice...lol

Oh and maybe bump up ther perlite next time 5% more isnt enough....10% wc and compost added...you need more perlite like 20 to 30 more

He is organics.... adding a synthetic supplement doesn't change that there are organic nutrients that need to be broken down by microbes.

You really don't NEED perlite in soil and with organic amendments you DEFINITELY don't want run off.

FYI just seen that organically derived EJ has some pretty nasty toxic shit in it... may wanna look into that.

 

[Flexnerb]

He is organics.... adding a synthetic supplement doesn't change that there are organic nutrients that need to be broken down by microbes.

You really don't NEED perlite in soil and with organic amendments you DEFINITELY don't want run off.

FYI just seen that organically derived EJ has some pretty nasty toxic shit in it... may wanna look into that.

How i understand it is anything syntheticly derived dries out microlife. Which is counter productive to building micro life. Bio bizz recomends 10% runoff. Not sure what the rest of organic nute companies suggest. Nutrients in substrates lose there electrical charge( become protonated) if these elements cant get the charge back without causing a loss of charge from the soik itself replacing those nutes is expected. Now we have to remember mycos can really only feed 0 to 30% of a plants nutrition. Where is it suppoed to get the rest? As long as a person isnt flushing the hell out of their pots it shoukd be ok to get some runoff...right?

pushing out the old and bringing the new if it takes a foliar feeding or two til the nutes are available in the soil that you just put in. Than that makes sense...but who am I to be talking my plants arent doing the greatest and im trying to figure it out and its obviously my humidity!! Month ago i fired up my ultrasonic mister/fogger and it really didnt make a difference........lmfao....going to again as my humidity outside is higher before it was way too dry couldnt hold moister for shiat!

Bio bizz is claiming all nutes should be broken down in 1 to 3 days after application.

 

[Aqua Man]

How i understand it is anything syntheticly derived dries out microlife. Which is counter productive to building micro life. Bio bizz recomends 10% runoff. Not sure what the rest of organic nute companies suggest. Nutrients in substrates lose there electrical charge( become protonated) if these elements cant get the charge back without causing a loss of charge from the soik itself replacing those nutes is expected. Now we have to remember mycos can really only feed 0 to 30% of a plants nutrition. Where is it suppoed to get the rest? We have to supply that. And pushing out the old and bringing the new if it takes a foliar feeding or two til the nutes are available in the soil that you just put in. Than that makes sense...but who am I to be talking my plants arent doing the greatest and im trying to figure it out and its obviously my humidity!! Month ago i fired up my ultrasonic mister/fogger and it really didnt make a difference........lmfao....going to again as my humidity outside is higher before it was way too dry couldnt hold moister for shiat!

Bio bizz is claiming all nutes should be broken down in 1 to 3 days after application.

Wha?

That's just not true about microbes. Salinity does impact them. You do realize ALL nutrients need to be in ionic form for plants to uptake them right? This mean they are ALL in salt form. A plant CANNOT uptake nutrients in organic form. The only difference is how they are broken down. One is an organic process generally bacteria that produce enzymes and these enzymes break them down into IONIC SALTS. Synthetic is done with varying methods some include the use of synthetic enzymes.

How exactly do these nutrients just lose tgier charge? Or are you referring to the positive and negative charges of the ions. Thus is how a plant take up nutrients by exchanging ions also how a soil holds onto them.

In order for nutes to be broken down they need to be processed by microbes... it doesn't just happen in 1-3 days unless you have those. And in 1-3 days what are they broken down into????? Ionic salts

Myco aids with some nutrients but a plant does NOT need them. The plants takes up nutrients by ion exchange and passive uptake.

How the hell do synthetic nutrients dry out microbes? I think you are think of salts in the wrong way... you are thinking sodium which is a salt but not all salts are sodium.

I'm not sure if biobizz is organic or not... organically derived maybe? Meaning they are salts already.

 

[Aqua Man]

Just did a quick read of biobizz... they claim it gives carbon to the plants for cell development lol... plants get carbon from the air not thier roots. Also plants produce their own carbohydrates they dont uptake them. I get it can feed the microbes but the plant does this and that's what attracts the bacteria to the roots in the first place. Like most nutes... mine included bunch marketing and big words that sound all fancy to seel a product.

 

[Flexnerb]

I know in the US our labeling is different. So anything in the label is whats available right away for the plant the rest comes frome the breakdown from the microbes.

The npk on the labels in the us is what is available right away

The npk for international labeling is different most have laws that the total amount in mix is displayed o the label....with that said you can look at US labels and that will tell you what is available right away to the plants. Proportionately the microbes might be only breaking down 30% at most....thats how i understand it. Am i missing something aquaman?