Hi there, new, showing off my plant

[KG1]

Damn dude, that made little to no sense. I've got science, physics and real world experience behind me. What have you got, other than ill-informed, baseless claims?

It's you who doesn't understand heat transference. If you're not concerned with, or have, heat issues; you're not trying hard enough. I don't know of any growers who don't consider heat mitigation a priority. I can't even grow in the summer months where I'm at bc of excessive heat.

Again let me see you bare handed, grab hold of any lit light bulb; from an auto tail light bulb, up to a 1,000w hps. You will burn yourself. If plant matter touches that hps bulb or led driver, it will die and turn brown

There is a reason why it's important to remove any oily finger prints from hid bulbs; it's bc the bulbs get frkn hot, and finger prints can cause hot spots that can weaken and crack, or even cause the bulb to shatter. At the very least, it will make them burn hotter and shorten their lifespan.

Here's what AI says about your last statement. I said I was growing weary of this debate:


Yeah, I can see why you’re growing weary. That comment is full of misunderstandings about basic physics and heat transfer, so let’s break it down point by point in simple terms:

1. Watts In = Watts Out (Eventually as Heat)

A 600W HPS or LED pulls 600 watts of electrical power.

Almost all electrical energy ends up as heat eventually — whether directly (infrared radiation, convection) or indirectly (light absorbed by surfaces, then converted to heat).

LEDs may be slightly more efficient, but the difference is small (maybe 10–20%). The total heat load into the room from a 600W light is still roughly 600W either way.

So the claim that "10% in heat" doesn’t make sense — there’s no magic ‘extra heat’ coming from HPS. It’s all the same energy balance.

2. Why HPS Feels Hotter

HPS bulbs run very hot at the surface (arc tube temperatures can exceed 2,000°C) and emit infrared (IR) radiation.

IR travels through air and directly heats surfaces (plants, walls, your skin) before air even warms up.

LEDs emit far less IR, so air warms more evenly and less intensely; heat is mostly at the heat sinks, which can be cooled more easily.

That’s why bare HPS bulbs “feel” hotter even if the wattage is the same.

3. Cool Tubes Absolutely Work

A cool tube isolates the bulb and ducts hot air straight out before it mixes with the room air.

This prevents convective and radiant heat from accumulating in the grow space.

If they “made zero difference,” commercial growers wouldn’t spend thousands on them.

Real-world data:

A 600W HPS without cooling easily pushes temps 10–15°F higher in a small tent.

With a cool tube or air-cooled hood, you can cut that by half or more because you remove the heat before it spreads.

4. One Light Still Needs Cooling

Saying “one light in a tent doesn’t need cooling” is wrong.

Small tent + 600W light + little airflow = temperature spikes.

Many small growers actually switch to LEDs just to reduce heat load because cooling small rooms is hard.

5. Why Some People Don’t Notice Heat Problems

If someone grows in a cold basement or big drafty garage, heat might not be an issue.

But in a small, sealed tent in summer, 600W of heat quickly overwhelms ventilation.

Claiming “HPS growers never complain about heat” is false — it’s one of the most common problems on grow forums.

Bottom Line

Watts in = watts out as heat, but HPS dumps it as intense IR radiation + convection.

Cool tubes work because they prevent that heat from ever entering the grow room air.

LEDs distribute heat differently, which makes cooling easier, even at the same wattage.

Whether heat is a problem depends on room size, airflow, and ambient temps, not just watts.

I'm afraid the conductive heat simply runs out the tent before it's energy can heat lower air molocules which again are rushing through the tent.

It's not just the power of heat it's the air velocity which gives a final figure and that is small in both cases.

But now we talk radiation as in light, well you can't cool that till it hits a surface, I can't simply suck with air it's value out it needs to transfer into another form of energy.

Ok cool tubes removed a very small amount of heat, nothing a small tent growers can notice, I stand under any light in a wind tunnel and place a piece of glass between me and the light I feel very little if any difference. Only at low enough wind speeds that the energy held in the air round the bulb can it make the journey from the bulb to me otherwise it's moved away far too quickly.

Air is highly effective at cooling, water even more so but since in a tent I'm already running exhaust at a rate that far exceeds the wattage needed to heat the volume of air before it is exchanged.

Unfortunately the transference of enough radiation to a thin leaf surface can be enough to heat it past biological function and that we can't cool with a cool tube and in small tents is more the issue as is air temperature you suck in and through the tent.

The above about air suction shows it's efficiency in removing air from a tent, in fact the air coming in is barely heated by more than a degree or two by the time it leaves after mere seconds in there.

Don't really see any heat difference if I'm running the equivalent light radiation, 600w is certainly not heating 200 cubic feet by much in a minute you can place a 600e any light in that sized room and wait for that answer.

How is a cool tube valid and how can I see a savings on cooling and led unless I scale up my grow to a big room full really?

 

[KG1]

My 4x8 has the 8" filter and blower inside the tent - mistake bc I lost precious head room.

My 4x4 has the filter and blower outside the tent and works perfectly

Either is fine depending on your desired outcome, imo

One is more efficient and if you only had a four inch possible to want that efficiency but yes you are right even blowing will give you effective cfms if sized right.

 

[Leste]

Thank god I’m just a dumb fuck who knows the sunrises and sets EVERY fucking day. That’s why I grow outdoors in the ground. You cats kill me, I haven’t got a clue what you are talking about, but it’s a good read. In the end, it’s just about growing weed!

 

[amneziaHaze]

If I have a 3x3x5 and a 200cfm fan how much heat can I really heat up by!

Do some real maths bro input Vs output, my exhaust cools pretty efficiently, x amount of moving air divided by a small wattage lol come on.

That's why a cool tube is so pointless, maybe I. A sealed room with no ventilation it may have some meaning heat raise value but a simple extractor sees that removed in what... A few seconds!

​

Quick interpretation / practical takeaways​

• A 200 CFM fan in a 3×3×5 m room gives solid ventilation (≈7.6 ACH) for a 300 W HPS. Air alone won’t overheat the room — the open reflector produces only ≈1°C air rise here.
• The cooltube mainly reduces convective heat reaching the room and reduces IR at the canopy; in your case it reduces room heating by about 1°C and allows you to hang the lamp ~13 cm closer (still-air). If you use a small canopy fan (increase hhh), distances shrink substantially.
• You pay a ~10% PAR loss for those benefits. If you rely on every percent of PAR, an LED may be a better option; if heat is your problem and you run HID, cooltube is helpful.
• If your ambient temperature is higher than the 26°C I used, or if your target leaf temp is lower, distances will increase — give me those numbers and I’ll recompute.

 

[TestTime]

Here is where we get into radiation again. Heat is not the only radiation, nor the only way to burn a plant.
Chemical imbalance burns a plant. Hot photosynthesis ahead of the ability to remove wastes from tissues burns plants.
Photo-chemical damage includes:
UV-A (315–400 nm): bronzing and brittling
UV-B (280–315 nm): stunting and corkscrewing
UV-C (100–280 nm): SPOTTED TISSUE NECROSIS HOLY SHIT THINK ABOUT THIS INSIDE YOU
“blue/violet” (≈400–450 nm): nitrogen wash out
red/far-red (≈600–750 nm): rapid tissue free radical oxygen build up

Don't give a shit.

What lab do you trust? I will send it there. I am not asking anybody to believe anything I say. Read above, I'll tell you right off the bat. You shouldn't trust anybody.

And I'll send it in stages as it grows. And after I harvest. I want to know. I have no fucking clue!

This is a throwaway plant. I'll abuse it as hard as I can and I'll send it away to test. Simple as that. I want to see how hard I can push it and abuse it and the final extract. Flavor is of zero value nor is anything else.

How well will it mix with MCT oil and relief pain?

I'll grant you the cost of the whole room even though I pushed all the plants through it. $2,000 over the course of 3 years because I had it to play and I enjoyed it.

But I'll just say it cost $2,000 to grow that single plant. All the lights and fans and technology and wires and everything is under 2K.

Add in 10K of electrician. He was not cheap. He did my kitchen upstairs that day as well but fine. 10K for the electrician because God damn it. He thought about a lot of stuff for a while and then he came and coordinated with the plumber and the guy building in the floor. 10K of electrician.

Okay, I'm up to 12K

Now add in 10 months or so of electricity.

We measure so tight. I had to pay the electric company to put an upgraded transformer on the pole outside my house so I could run a second line to my back. I know where everything goes everywhere. Sometimes the rambles are strange depending on how hard the drugs kick in. But you can be sure I know what it costs.

It took about a year to negotiation with at least four people before that transformer could be installed with the amount of conditions that had to be met. Then another 6 months of digging and laying. I didn't do it. But I had to coordinate four people of different professions and skill sets to do it continuously.

I'll fucking Grant you a 50k for everything else that that's satisfied from my house to upgrade that line. Because that's what it basically took by the time I was done.

That's 62k.

Back to the monthlies.

That's a hundred bucks a month. We measure it. We measure it hard. My wife grew up poor. Irish Catholic inner city. My God. There's a lot of kids on a single salary poor.

And I'm simply logical. I'm usually cheaper than her.

So that's a thousand bucks for a year at a hundred bucks a month so I'm up to 63k.

I'm still at 300K of oil. Do you understand how vastly different this is compared to whatever calculations you're used to doing?

 

[Greenadian]

100 jars this size in 10 months???

 

[Florida_Mike]

Thank god I’m just a dumb fuck who knows the sunrises and sets EVERY fucking day. That’s why I grow outdoors in the ground. You cats kill me, I haven’t got a clue what you are talking about, but it’s a good read. In the end, it’s just about growing weed!

Says the the dude with his 420th comment... very cool!

 

[ChairmanFester]

My 4x8 has the 8" filter and blower inside the tent - mistake bc I lost precious head room.

My 4x4 has the filter and blower outside the tent and works perfectly

Either is fine depending on your desired outcome, imo

I do have to say this is theory and text. Someone like you is going to know the real application. For instance my "under load' filter thing may be crap.

 

[TestTime]

Isn't it obvious that you're over growing and over spending and pulling your hair out for LESS THC and trying to beat that with volume. This is an expensive closed loop.

Read above. Just the last post. Please.

It costs a medical patient 100k a year to get enough THC and enough oil to cover four joints. Shoulders and hips. It cost more than that if you play with elbows, hands and wrists and knees and feet. And arthritis patient could spend half million a year in THC.

For whatever reason you think I'm not getting density and that's fine. That's what testing is for. Give me lab names. Give me a couple. I'll send them to both.

 

[amneziaHaze]

Don't give a shit.

What lab do you trust? I will send it there. I am not asking anybody to believe anything I say. Read above, I'll tell you right off the bat. You shouldn't trust anybody.

And I'll send it in stages as it grows. And after I harvest. I want to know. I have no fucking clue!

This is a throwaway plant. I'll abuse it as hard as I can and I'll send it away to test. Simple as that. I want to see how hard I can push it and abuse it and the final extract. Flavor is of zero value nor is anything else.

How well will it mix with MCT oil and relief pain?

I'll grant you the cost of the whole room even though I pushed all the plants through it. $2,000 over the course of 3 years because I had it to play and I enjoyed it.

But I'll just say it cost $2,000 to grow that single plant. All the lights and fans and technology and wires and everything is under 2K.

Add in 10K of electrician. He was not cheap. He did my kitchen upstairs that day as well but fine. 10K for the electrician because God damn it. He thought about a lot of stuff for a while and then he came and coordinated with the plumber and the guy building in the floor. 10K of electrician.

Okay, I'm up to 12K

Now add in 10 months or so of electricity.

We measure so tight. I had to pay the electric company to put an upgraded transformer on the pole outside my house so I could run a second line to my back. I know where everything goes everywhere. Sometimes the rambles are strange depending on how hard the drugs kick in. But you can be sure I know what it costs.

It took about a year to negotiation with at least four people before that transformer could be installed with the amount of conditions that had to be met. Then another 6 months of digging and laying. I didn't do it. But I had to coordinate four people of different professions and skill sets to do it continuously.

I'll fucking Grant you a 50k for everything else that that's satisfied from my house to upgrade that line. Because that's what it basically took by the time I was done.

That's 62k.

Back to the monthlies.

That's a hundred bucks a month. We measure it. We measure it hard. My wife grew up poor. Irish Catholic inner city. My God. There's a lot of kids on a single salary poor.

And I'm simply logical. I'm usually cheaper than her.

So that's a thousand bucks for a year at a hundred bucks a month so I'm up to 63k.

I'm still at 300K of oil. Do you understand how vastly different this is compared to whatever calculations you're used to doing?

standard way of growing you would be getting every 2 monhts or soo 6-8 kg of dry herb with 3000W of light. how much do you think you will be getting from this plant now?

 

[TestTime]

standard way of growing you would be getting every 2 monhts or soo 6-8 kg of dry herb with 3000W of light. how much do you think you will be getting from this plant now?

Don't know. Have no idea. Won't attempt to.

But while I threw all those calculations, here's what I pulled out of the room in approximately 5 months, which was three autos which I've smoked plus the 10 regulars which got to 14 and I had one that I killed because it annoyed me.

Legal limit was 15.

But I smoke hard when there's a first harvest and I haven't done it for a year and I go yay! It feels like infinite weed, but then I slow down a bit.

I've also made a shitload of extract which I've rubbed on my body and my wife because she said both a broken wrist and a broken foot. Plus I gave a shitload of it away. When the UPS guy comes I give buds.

The plants grow in full view of the delivery guides pathway. Everyone gets the option of taking bud home. I also give it as tips. I still give cash tips but if you would like a bud I will toss a bud in with it.

It's part of my empathy overload. Unexpected cannabis makes people grin and that makes me happy. Surprise happiness is the best.

Can you tell this is a long ramble to say this is what I currently have ready for the next 3 years or so at my typical consumption rate if I wasn't making oil:

I'm not telling people they shouldn't grow Bud how the way they want to grow Bud. I'm simply saying this is an option I'm exploring and I'm pretty goddamn sure I hit pay dirt.

I have been ridiculously fortunate in my life. I know this. Yeah, I got stories of some pretty shitty times but overall it's been amazing. And the bottom line is this type of shit just does happen to me. Yep, it has happened again. I think I've come across something that changes something. So I'm exploring it.

 

[TestTime]

Don't know. Have no idea. Won't attempt to.

But while I threw all those calculations, here's what I pulled out of the room in approximately 5 months, which was three autos which I've smoked. But I smoke hard when there's a first harvest and I haven't done it for a year and I go yay! It feels like infinite weed, but then I slow down a bit. I've also made a shitload of extract which I've rubbed on my body and my wife because she said both a broken wrist and a broken foot. Can you tell this is a long ramble to say this is what I currently have ready for the next 3 years or so at my typical consumption rate if I wasn't making oil.

And you can be damn sure those buds are rock hard. I shave them with a scissor when I smoke them because they are so hard.

View attachment 2519491

I'm not telling people they shouldn't grow Bud how the way they want to grow Bud. I'm simply saying this is an option I'm exploring and I'm pretty goddamn sure I hit pay dirt.

I have been ridiculously fortunate in my life. I know this. Yeah, I got stories of some pretty shitty times but overall it's been amazing. And the bottom line is this type of shit just does happen to me. Yep, it has happened again. I think I've come across something that changes something. So I'm exploring it.

 

[Florida_Mike]

Read above. Just the last post. Please.

It costs a medical patient 100k a year to get enough THC and enough oil to cover four joints. Shoulders and hips. It cost more than that if you play with elbows, hands and wrists and knees and feet. And arthritis patient could spend half million a year in THC.

For whatever reason you think I'm not getting density and that's fine. That's what testing is for. Give me lab names. Give me a couple. I'll send them to both.

I can see the density. I agree with an earlier post when you either said or conceded that mold is a concern. Definitely watch for it, especially with grow bags sitting in water and growing algae on them.

I lost my biggest fattest buds last cycle bc of mold.
It was my own fault for having open water + high nighttime rh.
I had two dehumidifiers running 24/7 in my lung room but it wasn't enough.
I was hoping to have some beginners luck
didn't work it didn't work out so well

Don't be like me!

 

[ChairmanFester]

Read above. Just the last post. Please.

It costs a medical patient 100k a year to get enough THC and enough oil to cover four joints. Shoulders and hips. It cost more than that if you play with elbows, hands and wrists and knees and feet. And arthritis patient could spend half million a year in THC.

For whatever reason you think I'm not getting density and that's fine. That's what testing is for. Give me lab names. Give me a couple. I'll send them to both.

Well, @FloridaMike or @Captspaulding or @Mikedin can tell you a lab name, I can't. Probably. They may also be irritated to be honest and we ARE trying to help. Be nice and help us help you; if it sounds like I'm saying "we beat you because we love you", well... yes. We will sound harsh and expect you to sound nice. You walked into a room after all, at least initially deference is a good idea. Of course if I say something off, realize I am not a vastly experienced grower. I very often have to go copy and paste text books when I get deep enough. But don't toss it like that's old thinking. It's true, testable, and solid.

 

[ChairmanFester]

And you can be damn sure those buds are rock hard. I shave them with a scissor when I smoke them because they are so hard.

Increased density is actually gone past good and into problem territory here.

 

[ChairmanFester]

Can you explain the value of discarding considerations of taste and aesthetic if we set aside the future lab results (interested in this), and stick with the 3x more plant per amount of cannaboids (encompassing terpines, THC, flavinoids, probably other things I forget). If you're getting 1 THC unit per 5 plant units, and I'm getting 2, weight is 100% irrelevant. DO NOT HANG ON SPECIFIC NUMBERS, I'm speaking in ummm... Parables (fuck you if it's ok for jesus it's ok for me).
SO:
Why is the extra dead weight good?
Go find a lab, and post numbers we can work with.
Until then you're going to yell at us and we're going to yell at you.

 

[TestTime]

Well, @FloridaMike or @Captspaulding or @Mikedin can tell you a lab name, I can't. Probably. They may also be irritated to be honest and we ARE trying to help. Be nice and help us help you; if it sounds like I'm saying "we beat you because we love you", well... yes. We will sound harsh and expect you to sound nice. You walked into a room after all, at least initially deference is a good idea. Of course if I say something off, realize I am not a vastly experienced grower. I very often have to go copy and paste text books when I get deep enough. But don't toss it like that's old thinking. It's true, testable, and solid.

And I will follow up on that. I vastly overexpose in my stories because I know I have to build trust. Pretty much everything I say is able to be correlated publicly by somebody. Someday. I expect to be doxed after a full explosion of this. That's all that type of fantasy because I think it's that good.

I could be 100% full of shit. I know. I am 100% aware.

Okay, I'll follow up in a bit and ask for laboratory recommendations after. I guess I should be searching the site but the bottom line is I don't trust anything other than what you or someone you trust says. That's how I build relationships. And this is a relationship experience.

 

[TestTime]

1) Fan vs. system curves


A fan supplies a pressure rise that (to a good approximation) looks like
View attachment 2519456

Flow Qhappens where this equals the system drop:

View attachment 2519457
with K the sum of duct/elbow losses, ρ\rhoρ air density, A duct area.


2) Filter pressure drop depends on face velocity
For porous/fibrous media,

View attachment 2519458

is the average of the local face velocity to the power n.

• If the velocity is uniform (nice, even suction through the face),
  View attachment 2519459
• If the velocity is non-uniform (jet and swirl from a fan blowing into the filter), then by Jensen’s inequalityView attachment 2519460
  
  Now if you wonder why this filter idea is in there, that is your test. That is numbers on your fan under load. This is why your airflow is wrong, and I had to go look at all this shit myself because I made the mistake two grows ago, however I have corrected.
  View attachment 2519461

So any uneven approach flow makes the same average flow require more ΔP across the filter.


3) Discharge “system effect” when pushing
Mounting a restriction right on the outlet of a fan adds an extra loss term at the fan itself (swirl/jet not recovered). Treat it as

View attachment 2519462

---

A concrete (but general) example​

View attachment 2519463

That made me push on that button to get alternative icons to choose something. I've never done that before.

Thank you for that incredible dopamine push there which then caused me to learn something else.

 

[TestTime]

That made me push on that button to get alternative icons to choose something. I've never done that before.

Thank you for that incredible dopamine push there which then caused me to learn something else.

See I truly claim to know very little. I know enormous amount of trivia. I see webs of shit. Sometimes things crystallize. I have no idea why and I am not interested in finding out typically.

And before you say come on dude, you need to understand the science etc etc.

I'm talking about my thought processes. How many levels deep do I have to go before I understand why I thought a certain thing. How many levels of experiences and motivations do I need to compare and contrast before I come up with? Yeah that's why I think that?

Chemical steps and underlying air flow calculations math that I was stoned through in alternative school and pretended to pay attention to.

The computer showed up at the point when I had to think about those that the computers could figure those bits for me and I do a rough estimate and then I'd bring it to an expert and pay them to review and do it.

So I never needed to learn any of the things that you truly go deeply into detail about. I never claim to.

When I taught myself programming at age 18. I taught myself algebra by accident. That's how languages work in computers, at least the language I was working in those days. When I taught myself many different languages with many different foundations. It taught me to think in many types of branching or stack or recursive or whatever the fuck CPU was at the moment. You got to think in the CPU and work your way out from there and see what the libraries wrapped around it. Then you got to work your way back in and flip them registers.

But I don't know any math.

I got shit done and I learned what I needed to know as I did it and I did an incredible amount of reading and background research before attempting anything and there was no concept of online help. Open source did not exist, everybody was simultaneously rediscovering the wheel and getting sued.

It took me until 40 until I finally realized I couldn't not learn everything about anything. There was always something more. That's a gut-wrenching statement.

But it allowed me to simplify.

My current life goal is to be a machine toolist. That's it. I will have to go math when I go into the tight gearing. But that is my life goal of the moment. Everything else is a byproduct of that.

Until someone posts something like that. That makes me go deep for a bit and then go. Nope, not my math. That's okay. It's still awesome.

 

[ChairmanFester]

We'll take people and thought out. WE can do numbers.
THIS IS AI: I fed it the lab names and shit and asked it to make it readable, the info is me.

Yep—there are legit labs you can use. Since you’re in NY, the cleanest path is in-state drop-off at a permitted cannabis lab:

• MCR Labs New York (Utica). They publish consumer-friendly services and list typical test menus (potency, terpenes, safety). Call and ask for an R&D/potency-only submission as a private individual. Address/phone are on their NY site. New York+1
• Kaycha Labs New York (Albany). Big multi-state operator with an NY lab. They mainly serve licensees but sometimes take R&D/non-compliance jobs—ask if they’ll accept a personal sample. kaychalabs.com+1
• NY’s Office of Cannabis Management keeps the umbrella rules for labs and sampling firms if you want to double-check who’s permitted. Office of Cannabis Management+1

How to do it (no drama)​

1. Call first. Say you’re an adult home-grower; ask if they accept R&D potency from individuals (no compliance COA needed).
2. Bring enough sample. Labs typically need about 0.7–1.5 g of homogenized flower for a cannabinoid profile (varies by lab/menu). Example MCR pages show ~0.7–1.5 g for flower, depending on test. MaineMassachusetts
3. Decide your panel. Cheapest/fastest is cannabinoid potency; add terpenes if you care about profile. (MCR lists terpene sample amounts for NY.) New York
4. Hand-deliver (or lab-approved in-state courier). Do not mail cannabis through USPS; non-hemp cannabis is nonmailable under federal postal rules. Postal Explorer+1

Extras you might want​

• Pathogen check by mail (leaves only): If you suspect Hop Latent Viroid, SC Labs accepts leaf mail-ins from any state. That’s plant health—not potency—but useful. SC Labs+1