High THCV strains and breeding them

Moe.Red · Feb 25, 2021

MIMedGrower said:
i cant get anything loaded. The cut was taken May 10th 2019 to locate in my thread. Hope i got enough posted for ya @Moe.Red

That is badass. I honestly thought this could not be done and end up with a healthy plant. That's bro science for you, people say all kinds of shit on the internet. I'm a pics or it didn't happen kind of guy, I salute you sir.

MIMedGrower said:
It seemed the only way to keep cuts and stay in plant count.

i found reveg clones grow much better and more natural than revegged whole plants. They become a stringy mess often.

Honestly, this is a game changer for me and my thought process.

Skeptik said:
I think -- at least for me -- we're racing to an undefined finish line. Since we don't really have any short and long term goals as a group, I'm pretty sure we have disparate endpoints.

For me, it's just about THCV. If, through this effort, I end up with a jar of fem seeds of plants that are >3% THCV, and low in THC, I'll be home. From there, I can simply dose with the V strain, and supplement with other strains depending on circumstances; e.g. maybe wake up to a does of the V, followed by some Harlequin or ACDC to get me going and soothe the arthritis, then in the evening, some V (of course), topped by some aged Gold Leaf, or other higher THC plus CBD.

Does this sound like what everyone else is thinking, or, for those of you whose interest is piqued re: THCV, but aren't using it yet, perhaps there are other goals.

All that said, I believe we should be focusing on the strains that are specifically advertised to be high in the V rather than mixing in strains that are *probably* higher than average -- e.g. Ethiopian, Balkhi, etc. -- so, T-Vic and the Mad Villain. I know Red is working out the logistics for the T-Vic, and since I have some of the Mad Villain, I'll try to find a spot for a couple of trial plants. The MVs are F1 hybrids between a high THCV strain and some CBG-hemp strain. They actually could be what I want, though, because they're advertised in the 7% THCV range with no THC.

My meager effort to organize my thoughts. Statements of alternate realities encouraged.

I think you and I have virtually the same goals, we have talked about this off board. I agree tho, it would be better to define the finish line. Truthfully I get a little uneasy with Trips comments about the end point making bank here, that is not my intention, but I'll keep an open mind. I'm really not doing this to cash out, but if there is a way to support a charitable method for getting THCV to folks with Parkinsons and other diseases we have discussed, I could be convinced.

WR420 · Feb 25, 2021

Milson said:
If it were me, i think I might dig until i find a strain with significant thcv, pair it to one of those bad boys who shows good thcv, cross them, find two good F1s, cross that, and i bet you could find a pretty special F2 with enough digging. That is my gut take on that, several bowls deep at nearly 1am local. Lol.

I would also look hard at hawaiian gear and environment. Humidity, pressure, light, etc.

DragonFlameGenetics moved to Hawaii with the aim of developing hardy strains under the hot sun, in extreme humidity and with extreme pest and pathogen presence. 2 strains that are sativa dominant and have long flowering times are the Missy's Stash(Congolese Kush x Dragons Stash) and Yunnan Dragon(China Yunnan Cangshen x Dragons Stash). Not sure what test results they produce, but just reading the thread from the beginning and this ticks a lot of the boxes mentioned previously.

Moe.Red · Feb 25, 2021

Moe.Red said:
Hey farmers, I have a lot to catch up on in the thread, I'll try to get to that shortly. In the meantime, I present without comment, although I'm a bit miffed

View attachment 1095858

View attachment 1095859

So I thought I'd come back to this and flesh it out a bit more.

Sample A is Jack the Ripper that was grown in this thread. B was Shark's Breath, my wife's favorite med that I'm tying to re-create since that cultivar is long gone and refuses to be repeated via other seeds.

#1 - they didn't freaking test for THCV.
#2 - they didn't give me the terpene profile I paid for. Then they said they ran out of material on sample B to do terpenes. But still did not give me sample A (Jack the Ripper) terpenes. Also, they were the same weight in both samples delivered to them, more than 2X what they asked for.

I am trying to work thru this with the lab, but this is the second time I have found lab testing to be questionable.

Blargh!

What we can learn, if these results are to be believed, is how accurate my TLC tests are. When I get home, I will compare the TLC test side by side with the lab test using Justquantify.eu and we will see, at least as far as THC goes, if my at home test is the same as the lab test. If I can verify this, I think I am done with lab testing until they work out all the kinks with their procedures.

BTW - both samples were decarbed prior to sending to the lab because I needed it that way for TLC. My test and their test came from the same decarbed buds. You see that properly reflected in the test, and I did not tell them that nor did I tell them the strains. Because of this, I think that the data they have given me is accurate and of my buds, at least to the limitation of their gas chromatograph mass spectrometer equipment.

Skeptik · Feb 25, 2021

Moe.Red said:
Hey farmers, I have a lot to catch up on in the thread, I'll try to get to that shortly. In the meantime, I present without comment, although I'm a bit miffed

What a pisser. So they gave you everything except what you asked for; crap!

Moe.Red · Feb 25, 2021

Skeptik said:
What a pisser. So they gave you everything except what you asked for; crap!

The response:

Our standard only includes the 10 listed cannabinoids. We have run a THCV standard before, so we could potentially compare your sample back to that. We'll take a look at it and keep you updated.

We are still working up the terpene data for sample A, but it is possible that we will need more of sample A, as well as sample B. The terpenes test suggests 250 mg, and after preparing the sample for potency, there was only 190 mg remaining. If you could please let me know when you would be able to drop off more of both samples, that would be appreciated!

There are 2 other labs I can try if this one does not work out.

Milson · Feb 25, 2021

Moe.Red said:
The response:

Our standard only includes the 10 listed cannabinoids. We have run a THCV standard before, so we could potentially compare your sample back to that. We'll take a look at it and keep you updated.

We are still working up the terpene data for sample A, but it is possible that we will need more of sample A, as well as sample B. The terpenes test suggests 250 mg, and after preparing the sample for potency, there was only 190 mg remaining. If you could please let me know when you would be able to drop off more of both samples, that would be appreciated!

There are 2 other labs I can try if this one does not work out.

this is one of those times where i would write "My mistake. I thought you guys had done this before. I feel awful putting you guys in a tough spot asking you to do something complicated like this. " before deleting and finding a diplomatic answer.

Moe.Red · Feb 25, 2021

Milson said:
this is one of those times where i would write "My mistake. I thought you guys had done this before. I feel awful putting you guys in a tough spot asking you to do something complicated like this. " before deleting and finding a diplomatic answer.

I'm wearing out my backspace

shitwinds · Feb 25, 2021

Moe.Red said:
The response:

Our standard only includes the 10 listed cannabinoids. We have run a THCV standard before, so we could potentially compare your sample back to that. We'll take a look at it and keep you updated.

We are still working up the terpene data for sample A, but it is possible that we will need more of sample A, as well as sample B. The terpenes test suggests 250 mg, and after preparing the sample for potency, there was only 190 mg remaining. If you could please let me know when you would be able to drop off more of both samples, that would be appreciated!

There are 2 other labs I can try if this one does not work out.

wanted more sample to test, or they just really like your weed.....

Moe.Red · Feb 25, 2021

shitwinds said:
wanted more sample to test, or they just really like your weed.....

Can't imagine why? It's just your run of the mill shitty THC blip hybrid bullshit. Nothing special to see here.

Now the terpenes? This is where entourage is proven in my mind. Those 2 strains are unidentifiable from each other by cannabinoid profile, however 1 is my wife's favorite, and one she couldn't give 2 shits about.

Skeptik · Feb 25, 2021

Moe.Red said:
Can't imagine why? It's just your run of the mill shitty THC blip hybrid bullshit. Nothing special to see here.

Now the terpenes? This is where entourage is proven in my mind. Those 2 strains are unidentifiable from each other by cannabinoid profile, however 1 is my wife's favorite, and one she couldn't give 2 shits about.

That *is* interesting. How does she consume?

Milson · Feb 25, 2021

In case anyone else has realized he/she is in over his/her head but just threw on some scuba gear like me, this is something i learned from re: the basics of how terpene testing works.

The money, more or less.

Technology Networks - The Online Scientific Community

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www.analyticalcannabis.com

Moe.Red · Feb 26, 2021

Skeptik said:
That *is* interesting. How does she consume?

Well, that's gonna take a minute to explain. The most simple explanation is that this occurs while smoking or vaping.

I'm gonna be gone for a while and when I come back I'll answer a bit more clearly. Right now I am rebuilding my extraction part of the lab with more counter space and room for the bud press (which means I need a line from the compressor). Then I have a bunch of spectrum testing to do with my new UVA and UVB meters as well as the PAR/ Far Red from Apogee. That's for 2 spectrum tests that have just started. Then I need to go back and compare the TLC result to the lab result mathematically to determine the accuracy of my at home tests. Then hopefully run my first batch thru the new short path, and yada yada yada. Took today off to get a 3 day and try to get all of this done. Plus I have Friday Nite TLC today. Shit I gotta get to work, I just keep thinking of things to do. Oh yeah, I gotta flip the LED tent to flower today too, and reverse the Durban Poison lady in there with the stuff you sent me. Oh, and germinate the THC Victory. Crap I gotta stop typing now.

Skeptik · Feb 26, 2021

Moe.Red said:
<snip>
... Crap I gotta stop typing now.

Back to work, Dude. I think you're taking too much time to breathe.

If it weren't for the pandemic, I'd fly out there to give you a hand.

Moe.Red · Feb 26, 2021

It's ALIVE!!!

BTW - did you know that a "varin" is a shorter tail? Look at the 2 photos on the left side, instead of 5 bonds that make up the tail, there are only 3.

It never ceases to amaze me that a tiny difference like that, in the universe of cells that is our body, takes that one little difference and makes a completely different reaction in the body. How could you not believe in entourage when you really grasp that. My hope is to tease out how the entourage can be tuned for a specific individual using this setup (and a few more bits off frame). Perhaps even improved upon?

This is my attempt at individualized medicine. I think I'll start a new thread for this extraction stuff, but this is where the THCV I grow is destined to get processed.

Milson · Feb 26, 2021

Moe.Red said:
It's ALIVE!!!

View attachment 1096446

Gotta admit, i was startled at first by the everclear bottles....

Moe.Red · Feb 26, 2021

Milson said:
Gotta admit, i was startled at first by the everclear bottles....

What, I'm on vacation! I do 3 by lunch and 4 more before bed. Don't judge me.

WR420 · Mar 2, 2021

Moe.Red said:
What, I'm on vacation! I do 3 by lunch and 4 more before bed. Don't judge me.

Straight? no chaser?

Moe.Red · Mar 5, 2021

More info from the lab this morning:

We were able to take a look at the THCV in your samples. The response of THCV is well below our limit of quantification (LOQ). There is a very small amount of THCV in both of the samples you provided, so considering the response is below LOQ, we can only give an approximation of ~0.2 ug/mL, or ~0.2% THCV in each sample.

So much for Jack the Ripper being a stable strain. If any of the seeds have remarkable THCV, I haven't seen them. I'm sick of getting sold seeds that are nothing like the marketing BS about them.

Oh, and the lab results correlated with my TLC tests perfectly, just with more precision. So no need to lab test until I get that THCV spike in TLC going forward. That said, looking back at all my past TLC plates, they pretty much all have a tiny blip of THCV. I'm still trying to decide what that means from a genetics standpoint. THC and THCV are so damned similar

THC and CBD come from CBG. THCV is a homologue of THC - just a shorter tail, but comes from a completely different precursor CBGv and a completely different process. If all plants have at least a little of it, what controls the expression of the different cannabinoids? One study from the 70s shows a plant with 53% THCV!!!! WHY? What is the plant doing? Attracting something to it or protecting itself from something? Just a random situation that really does nothing for the plant kinda like our appendix? Do I need a pest of some sort to initiate one precursor to form more than another? Or is it the enzyme that does the conversion that needs to be stimulated somehow? What is it about Africa that stimulates THCV? Just localized genetics running their course via natural selection or something else?

THC Victory seeds germinated. 6/6. Moving to Veg tent this weekend. Praying this is not a repeat of Jack the Ripper. I also have Durban Poison in flower now too. Hoping to get answers to some of these questions soon. We'll see.

Poekie · Mar 5, 2021

Moe.Red said:
More info from the lab this morning:

We were able to take a look at the THCV in your samples. The response of THCV is well below our limit of quantification (LOQ). There is a very small amount of THCV in both of the samples you provided, so considering the response is below LOQ, we can only give an approximation of ~0.2 ug/mL, or ~0.2% THCV in each sample.

So much for Jack the Ripper being a stable strain. If any of the seeds have remarkable THCV, I haven't seen them. I'm sick of getting sold seeds that are nothing like the marketing BS about them.

Oh, and the lab results correlated with my TLC tests perfectly, just with more precision. So no need to lab test until I get that THCV spike in TLC going forward. That said, looking back at all my past TLC plates, they pretty much all have a tiny blip of THCV. I'm still trying to decide what that means from a genetics standpoint. THC and THCV are so damned similar

View attachment 1099210
THC and CBD come from CBG. THCV is a homologue of THC - just a shorter tail, but comes from a completely different precursor CBGv and a completely different process. If all plants have at least a little of it, what controls the expression of the different cannabinoids? One study from the 70s shows a plant with 53% THCV!!!! WHY? What is the plant doing? Attracting something to it or protecting itself from something? Just a random situation that really does nothing for the plant kinda like our appendix? Do I need a pest of some sort to initiate one precursor to form more than another? Or is it the enzyme that does the conversion that needs to be stimulated somehow? What is it about Africa that stimulates THCV? Just localized genetics running their course via natural selection or something else?

THC Victory seeds germinated. 6/6. Moving to Veg tent this weekend. Praying this is not a repeat of Jack the Ripper. I also have Durban Poison in flower now too. Hoping to get answers to some of these questions soon. We'll see.

53% THCV ?
Seems impossible but who knows.
Maybe a freak of nature.
Saw this today in the Soft Secrets from march, not online yet so just a crappy Pic.
About the Novarine from Elite Seeds.

Moe.Red · Mar 5, 2021

Poekie said:
53% THCV ?
Seems impossible but who knows.

Ref 2 and 3

References

^ SC Labs, Cannabinoids
^ Turner CE, Hadley K, Fetterman PS (October 1973). "Constituents of Cannabis sativa L. VI. Propyl homologs in samples of known geographical origin". Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences. 62 (10): 1739–41. doi:10.1002/jps.2600621045. PMID 4752132.
^ Hillig KW, Mahlberg PG (June 2004). "A chemotaxonomic analysis of cannabinoid variation in Cannabis (Cannabaceae)". American Journal of Botany. 91 (6): 966–75. doi:10.3732/ajb.91.6.966. PMID 21653452. S2CID 32469533.

High THCV strains and breeding them

High THCV strains and breeding them

Moe.Red

WR420

Moe.Red

Skeptik

Moe.Red

Milson

Milsonian

Moe.Red

shitwinds

Moe.Red

Skeptik

Milson

Milsonian

Technology Networks - The Online Scientific Community

Moe.Red

Skeptik

Moe.Red

Milson

Milsonian

Moe.Red

WR420

Moe.Red

Poekie

Moe.Red

High THCV strains and breeding them

High THCV strains and breeding them

Moe.Red

WR420

Moe.Red

Skeptik

Moe.Red

Milson

Milsonian

Moe.Red

shitwinds

Moe.Red

Skeptik

Milson

Milsonian

Technology Networks - The Online Scientific Community

Moe.Red

Skeptik

Moe.Red

Milson

Milsonian

Moe.Red

WR420

Moe.Red

Poekie

Moe.Red

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