Hoarding "Hard Work"?

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Green Mopho

Green Mopho

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Some things have come up in the local scene that has brought certain perspectives to light. People are making claims of their "hard work" as breeders, etc. when they are just closet hacks and pollen chuckers. Nothing wrong with being a pollen chucker, but know your place. The real breeders are the ones that did the hard work, you can look them up here on THCbay, etc. Popping some beans and making some F1 hybrids is just that....F1s, they are not a strain. The clone-only scene in CO has gotten out of hand, with everyone renaming phenos, who knows what is what. Personally, I don't see chucking pollen as "hard work", in fact, it seems that nature takes care of itself pretty well with out much intervention...one could even "accidentally" do some "hard work".

The honest truth is there are people in the industry trying to base their entire business off ONE clone-only F1 hybrid of their (or someone else's) creation. This is pretty pathetic if you ask me, especially with the plethora of availability in strains both locally and from real seed breeders. There is lots of good stuff out there, but there are those capitalizing off the lazy masses that don't want to look for it, or just don't know better.

People are letting their greed and need for attention get the better of them. I personally think that if you bred a cut, even if it is just an F1, and you are trying to make a name for yourself, you should let that cut go...let others have it without restrictions. If it is a truly worthy cut, it will find it’s way to those who deserve it. I think some people might be scared that the cuts they are spreading as "elite" won't stand up to a real elite cut when grown right by someone that knows what they are doing. Than again, it’s pretty easy to strike gold (or at least cobalt) when mining through F1s of good parentage....The real proof is if that cut will stand the test of time. Will it be in that "elite" garden in 2 years from now? or will it get tossed aside as just another played-out cut?

The bigger picture is hoarding, greed motivated especially. This isn't good for our movement. The greed-based hoarders now will be the first ones in line at the patent office when it becomes legal to patent strains, they will be the first ones to sue you if you are growing their strains, and they will be the first ones to $ell out to a corporation when it gets to that point.

Now there are instances where hoarding is justified. If a person or a certain crew is working with some unique and different cuts that give them a bit of an edge, the more power to them. But these people tend to stay in small circles, hiding in the shadows, and usually don't want any attention or credit, they are just working on that fire shit! And if you manage to get one of their cuts, that’s because they are already on the next thing...these people tend to stay getting passed elite cuts, and stay cracking beans to find the good stuff, they aren't hung up on one of those cuts, and they aren't trying to get rich or in the limelight for those cuts. They aren't giving their cuts to some people because they are "cool" and others that they think are not, they aren't advertising, they aren't succumbing to greed...

All those lonely people and tight-knit little crews out there in the shadows, working on that fire, keep doing your thing...you know who you are....and you know that sometimes, you gotta let some of those "elite" cuts just fly free....how else will they stay timeless?

Ancient Chinese Proverb said:
If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it doesn't, it never was. We do not possess anything in this world, least of all other people. We only imagine that we do. Our friends, our lovers, our spouses, even our children are not ours; they belong only to themselves. Possessive and controlling friendships and relationships can be as harmful as neglect.
 
P

pikes peak 69

226
18
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Green Mopho again.

100% agreed.

pp69
 
B

Bobby Smith

1,378
0
Seems like it's a judgment call as to when hoarding is justified or not, and that grey area is what will kill ya.

Either everyone should give away elite clones or no one should, IMO.

FYI, I'm of the opinion that even if someone "lucked" into finding an elite strain because one of their plants hermied or whatever, if they have a product that people want they should be able to charge the market price for said product.

At the end of the day, this is a business and economics will win out.

And where is the line drawn? Should people also give away weed, because keeping it for themselves is "hoarding"? Seeds, etc.? People need to be compensated for their time and money (again, IMO).

Not trying to troll your thread or anything, just throwing out a different point of view.
 
T

TurboAllWD

148
18
If I could give rep I would without a doubt. This is inspiring to me, I want to contribute to the movement although I'm not even a pollen chucker at this point. I do know better than to rename a strain and I will be spreading the love as soon as I get it!
 
I

IronLung D9

44
8
Some things have come up in the local scene that has brought certain perspectives to light. People are making claims of their "hard work" as breeders, etc. when they are just closet hacks and pollen chuckers. Nothing wrong with being a pollen chucker, but know your place. The real breeders are the ones that did the hard work, you can look them up here on THCbay, etc. Popping some beans and making some F1 hybrids is just that....F1s, they are not a strain. The clone-only scene in CO has gotten out of hand, with everyone renaming phenos, who knows what is what. Personally, I don't see chucking pollen as "hard work", in fact, it seems that nature takes care of itself pretty well with out much intervention...one could even "accidentally" do some "hard work".

The honest truth is there are people in the industry trying to base their entire business off ONE clone-only F1 hybrid of their (or someone else's) creation. This is pretty pathetic if you ask me, especially with the plethora of availability in strains both locally and from real seed breeders. There is lots of good stuff out there, but there are those capitalizing off the lazy masses that don't want to look for it, or just don't know better.

People are letting their greed and need for attention get the better of them. I personally think that if you bred a cut, even if it is just an F1, and you are trying to make a name for yourself, you should let that cut go...let others have it without restrictions. If it is a truly worthy cut, it will find it’s way to those who deserve it. I think some people might be scared that the cuts they are spreading as "elite" won't stand up to a real elite cut when grown right by someone that knows what they are doing. Than again, it’s pretty easy to strike gold (or at least cobalt) when mining through F1s of good parentage....The real proof is if that cut will stand the test of time. Will it be in that "elite" garden in 2 years from now? or will it get tossed aside as just another played-out cut?

The bigger picture is hoarding, greed motivated especially. This isn't good for our movement. The greed-based hoarders now will be the first ones in line at the patent office when it becomes legal to patent strains, they will be the first ones to sue you if you are growing their strains, and they will be the first ones to $ell out to a corporation when it gets to that point.

Now there are instances where hoarding is justified. If a person or a certain crew is working with some unique and different cuts that give them a bit of an edge, the more power to them. But these people tend to stay in small circles, hiding in the shadows, and usually don't want any attention or credit, they are just working on that fire shit! And if you manage to get one of their cuts, that’s because they are already on the next thing...these people tend to stay getting passed elite cuts, and stay cracking beans to find the good stuff, they aren't hung up on one of those cuts, and they aren't trying to get rich or in the limelight for those cuts. They aren't giving their cuts to some people because they are "cool" and others that they think are not, they aren't advertising, they aren't succumbing to greed...

All those lonely people and tight-knit little crews out there in the shadows, working on that fire, keep doing your thing...you know who you are....and you know that sometimes, you gotta let some of those "elite" cuts just fly free....how else will they stay timeless?


LOL.. "Some People" why dont you just say yr talkin about me...

Would love for you to tell me where i've once claimed to be a hot shit breeder? If you actually read my IC thread when creating the banner I even called the experiment pollen chucking... When I talk about hard work Im referring to the 9+ years Ive been growing selecting phenos from over 50 diff varities of cannabis..

Another note I'd like to make.. I never charged anyone for clones for nearly a decade, anyone who asked for clones got everything I had at the drop of the hat.. Go ahead and ask CloneDoc about that... He emerged on the scene with several of my clones, without ever even meeting me, he just requested from a buddy and I delivered.. Strains like the Juliet, DSD, Staw D, Aminesa99, are only in your "colorado clone scene" cause I started the seed years ago and picked the pheno you now smoke.. So Im not going to listen to you trash me for holding one to ONE STRAIN i made... I dont give credit to the breeders? We sold over 30 ELITE clones for $2.50 to half the members of this board for simply saying "JLP is the Man" I then got myself kicked off IC for the sale cause I was giving away amazing genetics for pennies.. and the mods wanted me to pay $800 for my own forum if i was to continue..

Thats about the 3rd time you have said my entire business is based on one clone... are you kidding me? now it's my greed and desire for fame... get real.. If i wanted to be sketchy about thing I'd of kept the lineage a secret, or better yet I'd just rename a clone and call it mine.. as relief did with there bio diesel aka death star or the sweet kush aka k2 or the plum kush aka the F13.. If you wanna call someone out why not pick someone who actually did something sketchy and get off my nuts, sayin Im pathetic and i'm scared to let my clone out cause I dont think it will stack up to other elites... lol def scared grow up..

All I ever asked is that the Banner stays out of other disp. I made it ab 4 years ago and passed it freely, along with all other strains I was working with... after I started D9 I still passed it and told folks to pass it with one little condition.. Several of the members of this board got it from me, not because they were "cool" or not but because they were able to show me top level product or knowledge or love of the plant.. Several members of this board gave me strains with conditions attached to them also... conditions i always respected... I have several strains that are other clubs number ones.. like (kurple) bred by mile high wellness.. that I'm not allowed to sell and your not going to see that clone passed either... rather than cry about what you dont have make something you want.. yr whole rant or thread is a giant waste of time...

I crossed a plant, it turned out good... no you cant have it from me... (yr passing the pheno I axed long ago anyways) it will land in yr garden if you deserve it... wah wah wah cry about it some more...


Great thread... pure trolling...
 
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therealpaco

Guest
Dude, GM, you just got to CO. the scene hasn't really gotten outta hand until recently:evilgrin0040:. There are a lot of people around that think they just deserve something. because. or "clone makers" fear the greed based collectors who give out shit like it was candy from a van.
Hard work is protected by some and released by others. It's the luck of the draw i suppose. If you have ever run in any other "plant-centric" circles you'd know how it is. If you want to sell , say pennisetium(sp) fireworks you have to get a contract for it from the breeder. the contract states that you will not divide of propagate that plant for any tother purpose than specified. it is kinda standard practice.
I am sorry if I'm coming off harsh, but I know where this is coming from. And I don't care for the bread and butter argument either.
 
M

mal

Premium Member
Supporter
2,069
113
Hoarding is bullshit

Greed is greed, generosity is inspiring, uplifting, and fulfilling



mal
 
T

Tr33hunter

Guest
Keeping good medicine from sick people isn't good for anyone but people looking to make a profit...and as a good friend told me
"Only for idiots is it necessary for profit"
 
Dorje

Dorje

410
43
With 1284s "vertical integration", it kinda makes it different for MMCs vs. caregivers. Now that MMCs have to supply all their own weed a lot of them are hoarding. We are just setting up a grow, so our policies aren't set, but we don't usually sell clones in the shop anyways and I hear you now need a opcl for the shop to legally sell clones, which we do not have.

There are some genetics that we do not intend to freely distribute, but others are common and I don't see a problem sharing those. The issue with sharing rare genetics is that every MMC wants to have some unique strains, which does make sense. If plants are given out to caregivers there is no stopping the cut from spreading, and I'd expect that it would despite attempts to sell a plant conditionally.

OTOH, there are limitless "elites" and a single MMC can't grow them all so the "damage" done by a cut getting out and being all butt-hurt over it is an overreaction IMO.

There is also a difference between sharing among friends and selling a tray of 50 clones to whoever walks through the door of your MMC. I'm more comfortable with the former even though selling through our shop isn't even a possibility for us.
 
C

CropReport

31
6
I just neg repped Mopho thinking i was pos repping him. I even wrote a little note.

I am ridiculously high right now. I can't PM because I can't yet be trusted with the microphone. So, yeah man, I fat-fingered that check box while repacking the REPLACEMENT Zob (were you a witness to that tragedy?)

I just wrote you a very detailed reply, but deleted most of it. Tacos.

Remember, Dry=High -Crop
 
pollenchucker

pollenchucker

99
8
good post GM

I've been thinking about this lately. I've done some pollen chucking for sure, but I'm ready to get a bit more into it.

out of curiosity, how long does it take to come up with an IBL?

is there an average number of generations of selection usually until the seeds rear just one pheno?

and, is that the criteria or do we still expect different phenos? If that's the case.... we usually expect that when we buy seeds from reputable dealers, no?
 
sky high

sky high

4,796
313
Dude, GM, you just got to CO. the scene hasn't really gotten outta hand until recently:evilgrin0040:. There are a lot of people around that think they just deserve something. because. or "clone makers" fear the greed based collectors who give out shit like it was candy from a van.
Hard work is protected by some and released by others. It's the luck of the draw i suppose. If you have ever run in any other "plant-centric" circles you'd know how it is. If you want to sell , say pennisetium(sp) fireworks you have to get a contract for it from the breeder. the contract states that you will not divide of propagate that plant for any tother purpose than specified. it is kinda standard practice.
I am sorry if I'm coming off harsh, but I know where this is coming from. And I don't care for the bread and butter argument either.

Not harsh paco. Truthful.

Fuck the clones and the talk of "hoarding' in that arena.
The true "hoarding" in Colorado arrived via the change in the law that strips A-20 rights to sell patient-to-patient from all patients :rain and lays the profits solidly in the hands of a few.:evilgrin0040:
 
M

mrdizzle

1,895
48
I dunno man Im kinda missing the point, maybe because Im not in colorado, but this really sounds a little like whining because someone wouldnt give you a cut or something. Its really up to the guy holding the cut whether he wants to dole it out or not, its not setting the movement back it is what it is. Popping beans takes time and money, but like you said if they are pollen chuckers and there are millions of strains out there what sweat off your back is it
 
Tripsick

Tripsick

420
43
I'm all about passing the shit around. :damnhippie: Granted i have said no a few times... (it was poor timing or some trust issues) but if your in our circle of friends we end up just trade shit back and forth and if we come across something great we make sure to get it to as many as we can.. There has even been a few of us that have never met but through a friend of a friend we sort of know of each other but still trade.. Strange how some of these relationships work. :passingjoint:

I'm not talking about the forums. Granted most of us know each other..

its all friends of friends that go back a very long time some even before anyone was using the net to talk about weed.:fighting0085:

we do find new friends from time to time.:afroweed: but i guess that is because of our friendliness or something.

If i would cross anything me being a closet hack lol i would make sure to name it correctly.. unless it was an unknown bag seed then i'm calling "This shit right here" CronAKillerShit :whew ... . lol.

I couldn't imagine living off one F1 or trying to... Sort of like going to Mexico on vacation and saying you traveled the world. You are missing out.

Pass that shit
 
TortureKill

TortureKill

1,091
83
The "clones onlys" that are hot right now, will be replaced by an entire diff crowd by the beginning of 2011. Some will stick around, but lots will be tossed aside. You never know what you will find in a seed. Theres plenty to be found. Get those seeds poppin folks. I dont know what yall are waiting for. Each day brings that seed one day closer to expiration. Grow em if you got em.

(I dont know how this rant relates to the discussion, just felt the need to ramble. I get sick of all the clone only shit. Theres Millions apon millions of variables out there. Start growing your seed so we can find the next hot shit for the ppl to rave over)

TK
 
Dr. Evil

Dr. Evil

654
93
If you receive a clone under "certain restrictions" it is your obligation to abide by said "restrictions"!! at that point you had the choice not to take it and simply walk away.....
I am a man of my word...and dishing out cuts of clone that were asked not to be given out is simply going against ones word.
Do i agree with keeping a strain on lock down? dont care, but i will keep my word if i took one under a condition.
simply a matter of morals with me.
 
cemchris

cemchris

Supporter
3,346
263
I have always seen hoarding as price control. Look at Sour Deez in NYC. When you hold that cut and everyone wanted it you named the price. 800 dollar oz's I mean come the fuck on. Look at the Friendly Friend story. I guess thats why there are different cuts of the same strain. I always Figured the story as so: The wrong person gets passed an elite. They grow it shittly. Bash the hell out of it. Now that bomb ass xxxxxxx cut has a neg rep. You market price that oh so nice and high just dropped. You have to make it shine through the crowd. Needs a name. Now everybody knows that that xxxxxxx cut is the "real" deal and the others are fake and so on. I mean I see where the greed argument comes from but take the weed out of the equation and its normal practice for strawberries, roses, recipes, ect. Is it right? Well depends on what side of the table you are on. True if its your cut you can do as you please. I dont see it as assholeness. I wouldnt give someone more credit for holding a elite cut vs growing something from seed. Thats just me. But I can see why people hold onto cuts not to mention if you spend years making it yourself or with a group. In my eyes if thats you or yalls hard work do what you please.

I have always openly shared stuff thats worth sharing. I feel I have had alot of good opportunities to grow really bomb stuff because of the kindness of other like minded individuals. For that I thank you. I think that keeps it positive which makes this hobby so much more enjoyable.

^ as evil said yea thats just plain respect.
 
pollenchucker

pollenchucker

99
8
If you receive a clone under "certain restrictions" it is your obligation to abide by said "restrictions"!! at that point you had the choice not to take it and simply walk away.....
I am a man of my word...and dishing out cuts of clone that were asked not to be given out is simply going against ones word.
Do i agree with keeping a strain on lock down? dont care, but i will keep my word if i took one under a condition.
simply a matter of morals with me.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dr. Evil again.
 
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