HPS light superior vs current led tech?

[MIGrampaUSA]

After 2 grows under LEDs, I was ready to run back to HIDs, but I wouldn't switch back now.

As others have said, light bars are superior to boards for an even spread of light, but the way the "quantum boards" are set up in the HLG Diablo and similar designs, may also be good. The biggest adjustment for me was not having the heat from the HID lamps during winter months. In a grow I had in another house I lived in, I depended on that heat and I would never have been able to use LEDs there.

At least with the SF4000, those diodes were not offset enough. Those quantum boards in my opinion are still too hot (light intensity, not heat) in the middle of the light. That may or may not be true with the HLG offerings since I've never run them. I am convinced that the best choice today in lighting is bar light LEDs. I'm only using quantum boards in my seedling and mother chambers and I keep them turned way down.

I've run both HID and LEDs. LEDs have a learning curve but are far superior in my opinion than an HID lamp. Also, for those who say they need the heat in the winter months ... if you need that heat with the lights on, you likely need heat added to the area when the lights are off.

Strange.....Everybody I talk to who switched from hps to led has the opposite problem: They're sruggling with serious spikes of humidity.

I don't get spikes in humidity with LEDs. It does rise some ... maybe 5% on watering day but that's about it. We also don't leave excess water behind. We vacuum out the run-off leaving minimal moisture in the drainage trays.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

hps vegging fml 28.0c/82.4fstrain53-7-17(1/2)foliar500w

 

[PipeCarver]

At least with the SF4000, those diodes were not offset enough. Those quantum boards in my opinion are still too hot (light intensity, not heat) in the middle of the light. That may or may not be true with the HLG offerings since I've never run them. I am convinced that the best choice today in lighting is bar light LEDs. I'm only using quantum boards in my seedling and mother chambers and I keep them turned way down.

I've run both HID and LEDs. LEDs have a learning curve but are far superior in my opinion than an HID lamp. Also, for those who say they need the heat in the winter months ... if you need that heat with the lights on, you likely need heat added to the area when the lights are off.



I don't get spikes in humidity with LEDs. It does rise some ... maybe 5% on watering day but that's about it. We also don't leave excess water behind. We vacuum out the run-off leaving minimal moisture in the drainage trays.

"

if you need that heat with the lights on, you likely need heat added to the area when the lights are off."

Not me, my heat goes off when the lights go out. I need to bring my day time temps up above house temp that is at 70f so I add heat to bring it up to 77f....at night after 10 pm I drop the house temp to 67f and with lights out it'll drop to 65f in my flower room...it just brings out the color in flowering plants......My veg closet stays about 75f without adding more heat.....if it drops much more I'll turn on a heat lamp I've installed in there to add a few more degree's while lights are on......

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

"


Not me, my heat goes off when the lights go out. I need to bring my day time temps up above house temp that is at 70f so I add heat to bring it up to 77f....at night after 10 pm I drop the house temp to 67f and with lights out it'll drop to 65f in my flower room...it just brings out the color in flowering plants......My veg closet stays about 75f without adding more heat.....if it drops much more I'll turn on a heat lamp I've installed in there to add a few more degree's while lights are on......

Ahhh, but at 65F even though the plants fair well at that temperature ... its also prime time temperature for WPM. Since I've made an effort to keep night time temps above 72F, and culled the 2 plants that were infected back in early Dec, the wpm issue went away.

@PipeCarver check out the latest on my winter grow. The clones are being fed with GH Flora series and are doing very well!

 

[PipeCarver]

Ahhh, but at 65F even though the plants fair well at that temperature ... its also prime time temperature for WPM. Since I've made an effort to keep night time temps above 72F, and culled the 2 plants that were infected back in early Dec, the wpm issue went away.

@PipeCarver check out the latest on my winter grow. The clones are being fed with GH Flora series and are doing very well!

air flow air flow,, I've always 4 fans running in my tent 24/7 1 under the canopy osculating 1 over the canopy osculating an 2 above the lights blowing down and at this time of year the humidity is low its down to 40% at my desk here so wpm isn't an issue...I've only had it on outdoor grows that I've given up on. Under my hps I had 3 large osculating fans above below and on the canopy 24/7.....in my basement here everything needs to dance or rot...lol

I'm in a 40' x 18' wide basement with a 9 ft ceiling 9 ft under ground with no windows surrounded by grey cement...... benches tools & tools crap and grow equipment lol...add desk and comp......it used to be a daddy long legs paradise....Big old furnace cob webs and spiders

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

air flow air flow,, I've always 4 fans running in my tent 24/7 1 under the canopy osculating 1 over the canopy osculating an 2 above the lights blowing down and at this time of year the humidity is low its down to 40% at my desk here so wpm isn't an issue...I've only had it on outdoor grows that I've given up on. Under my hps I had 3 large osculating fans above below and on the canopy 24/7.....in my basement here everything needs to dance or rot...lol

I'm in a 40' x 18' wide basement with a 9 ft ceiling 9 ft under ground with no windows surrounded by grey cement...... benches tools & tools crap and grow equipment lol...add desk and comp......it used to be a daddy long legs paradise....Big old furnace cob webs and spiders

Airflow and reduced humidity will greatly reduce the chance of WPD issues for sure. I wish I had that much space to dedicate to a grow ... I use about half that space, which is plenty but it would be nice to have more space to move around in.

 

[PipeCarver]

Airflow and reduced humidity will greatly reduce the chance of WPD issues for sure. I wish I had that much space to dedicate to a grow ... I use about half that space, which is plenty but it would be nice to have more space to move around in.

Its not as big as it sounds furnace, hot water tank and pump 5x5 tent 3x3 tent 6x6 hps space work benches 8x3 veg closet, 4x8 work table laders,chairs,tools,parts,screw,nails,crap, bike parts,paint ducting work mate bench,water jugs and a mini van back seat???....ya and......so ya not as big a it sounds add a computer lights chair and smoking gear.......lol....

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

Its not as big as it sounds furnace, hot water tank and pump 5x5 tent 3x3 tent 6x6 hps space work benches 8x3 veg closet, 4x8 work table laders,chairs,tools,parts,screw,nails,crap, bike parts,paint ducting work mate bench,water jugs and a mini van back seat???....ya and......so ya not as big a it sounds add a computer lights chair and smoking gear.......lol....

I'm working around my furnace and water heater too. In mine I have a 5 x 5, an over-sized 8 x 4, and a clone/mother/seedling cart. I also have a couple of 2 x 4 folding tables. Tool boxes are on wheels so I can keep them out of the way, and move them out when I need them.

I'm constantly moving things out that I don't need in there. Otherwise, it would become difficult to work in the space with all I have in there.

 

[PipeCarver]

I'm working around my furnace and water heater too. In mine I have a 5 x 5, an over-sized 8 x 4, and a clone/mother/seedling cart. I also have a couple of 2 x 4 folding tables. Tool boxes are on wheels so I can keep them out of the way, and move them out when I need them.

I'm constantly moving things out that I don't need in there. Otherwise, it would become difficult to work in the space with all I have in there.

we need a 1000 sqft house and a 5000sqft play/ work/grow/smoke/ heated garage

 

[Harpua88]

If you run the lamp too long it can burn out the components in your ballast trying to fire up a spent lamp. I can get a new 1000w hps mechanical ballast for $113Canadian delivered taxes in. The lamp I use the Eye Hort I just saw last night for $65....1/2 price of what I usually pay they're coming down in price I think because of the popularity of led's now........

I've burned out 2 digital ballasts in 3 years so I'm back on a mechanical, I like the heat they put out in my basement grow without it I need to add a heater. I can keep my plants within 18" of the lamp without issues with good airflow even closer. Old lamps lose their intensity, turn color and get dimmer as they age.....lighter fluffier buds are a result. I was in the electrical trade for over 40 years I've used hps lamps for 25 +years, I've never had one blow up or know anyone that's had that happen with the HID lamps.

Gotcha.......what if water accidentally splashed onto the hit bulb? Obviously we all want to be as careful as possible, and I'm sure it's rare, but if it did explode, if someone accidentally smashed/broke it.......it wouldn’t be good to be under it.

Flourescents too.......of they break and explode I don't think that's stuff we want to breathe in.

Maybe I'll mount the bulb somewhere as some kind of historical ornament/showpiece. :)

 

[Harpua88]

Strange.....Everybody I talk to who switched from hps to led has the opposite problem: They're sruggling with serious spikes of humidity.

How does that happen?

I found drier is better too. Plants get water through roots, and they respire. My experience is that they prefer a drier environment for that process. Plus, lower humidity is better for a few other reasons.

 

[mysticepipedon]

It sounds like you fucked up your first two grows with led. Then what happened that you got convinced of them anyway?

First, I noticed my plants had too much fuck. So I burned the fuck out of them.

The second time was during a typical Michigan winter, and the growth was very slow. I'm not a huge fan of having space heaters running while I'm not in the space being heated, so it took about 7 weeks to get the veg growth I'd normally get in 4 weeks. The product was great, it just took about a month longer than it should have taken.

The bulbs used to keep tropical lizards, chicken coops and rabbit hutches warm in winter made all the difference in the world. I'm not sure, but I think it was @PipeCarver who gave me the idea.

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[mysticepipedon]

we need a 1000 sqft house and a 5000sqft play/ work/grow/smoke/ heated garage

What seems to be popular now are "barndaminiums."

One of my money-making endeavors is evaluating land for septic systems. In the last 3 years, I've gotten a lot of people who want to build a barn and frame off a living area in a corner or a second story and live in it.

I'm sure some will have a grow in there, but most seem to have workshops for cars, boats, woodworking, etc. They're pretty cool.

 

[hydrodreams]

How does that happen?

I found drier is better too. Plants get water through roots, and they respire. My experience is that they prefer a drier environment for that process. Plus, lower humidity is better for a few other reasons.

As far as I understand, the loss of radiant heat when using led forces them to run their outtake vents at a very low rpm in order to keep the room at a temp that is not too cold and therefore less vaporated humidity will leave the room and spike the humidity in the room.

 

[Harpua88]

As far as I understand, the loss of radiant heat when using led forces them to run their outtake vents at a very low rpm in order to keep the room at a temp that is not too cold and therefore less vaporated humidity will leave the room and spike the humidity in the room.

From what temps to what temps, and humidity levels are we talking about here? What are the results for different temp and humidity ranges, and what's a spike?

 

[MedicalHydroponics]

My take on results I’ve seen, Hps flower MH Veg, resulting in better looking and fatter buds comparing to LED. The top LED’s take the same if not more watts then the HPS/MH from the wall! . You need twice as many led fixtures compared to HPS/MH, Even on the bar type. LED’s do go dead light, there’s always that one that does in the middle of flower/veg. All Led growers have to lower lights to fluorescent light levels anywhere from 6 inches to a foot above canopy. They can’t use at 100% because it burns the tops so they get better results dimming to 60-80%.

Then some have to bring in a heater because of colder temperatures.

There were top growers producing 2-3lbs per light with magnetic ballast HPS.
If you don’t overwater, and have a full canopy of healthy plants, at proper light height that you don’t bleach tops +what the light space is attended for. 600w 4ftx4ft, 1,000w 5ftx5ft with 18”-2ft stacked buds in every trellis hole 3.5”.

With the 12-1 veg +11/13 flower HPS/MH is still in the game as top competitor. Can’t argue light spectrum right amount of heat plants take all of it. MH bulb (No dimming) MH should never be dimmed run at 100% always.
(MH)Can be used in veg up to wk3 flower, stacks tight nodes this way.

Then switch to HPS for flower. Use the best bulbs on the market, count your hours of use it will last multiple years. Most run 10,000hrs with 10% loss. Do the Math get a calculator!!

Main problem I see and I’m guilty of is not using the equipment properly and efficiently mainly because the manufactures don’t even know how.

I’d prefer HID HPS/MH single ended 600w or 1000w air cooled hoods one fan for two hoods. Don’t have to worry about heat. Don’t have to worry about bulbs, getting water contact and exploding. Great for lower ceilings.

Double ended HPS is more for commercial. You need 12 foot ceilings 10 at the least, they run Hotter but are 25%more efficient
than single ended.

Plus running on 220-240v is better efficiency for the lights. Needs extra safety equipment to do so but worth it.

Leds make the claim of more #’s per light, but to me quality means way more as I’m all for Medical not commercial. Quality over quantity any day of the year. Medical means more than profit. Your health is your wealth.

Just my personal opinion I can show pictures if others are interested I’m sure Many will disagree.

Seen some top growers still doing great with Bat wing Hps/Mh. It comes down to grower experience not always the equipment used. But not using the equipment to the fullest potential is not a fare comparison to me.

CMH does great in Veg/flower as well.

Edited : because talk text wants to change wording I didn’t say. My fault for not proof reading cpu.

 

[Shaded_One]

My take on results I’ve seen, Hps flower MH Veg, resulting in better looking and fatter buds comparing to LED. The top LED’s take the same if not more watts then the HPS/MH from the wall! . You need twice as many led fixtures compared to HPS/MH

what?

LED are far more efficient than HPS and MH in terms of light production. What you use as a negative for temperatures, is a positive for many of us...if not a huge majority of indoor growers. We want lower temps, not higher temps.

 

[MedicalHydroponics]

what?

LED are far more efficient than HPS and MH in terms of light production. What you use as a negative for temperatures, is a positive for many of us...if not a huge majority of indoor growers. We want lower temps, not higher temps.

I use C02 Higher temps are what’s needed. Efficiency is not based on paper for me, but how many watts \amps actual electricity that is used from the wall is the same amount LEDs use, and in most cases LEDs use more. Just stating the argument about LEDs being 20 to 30% more efficient doesn’t show at the wall with a kilowatt meter as well as not producing 20 to 30% more weight either.

Just stating what I’ve personally seen. All going to depend on the grower when it comes down to it.

 

[Shaded_One]

I use C02 Higher temps are what’s needed. Efficiency is not based on paper for me, but how many watts \amps actual electricity that is used from the wall is the same amount LEDs use, and in most cases LEDs use more. Just stating the argument about LEDs being 20 to 30% more efficient doesn’t show at the wall with a kilowatt meter as well as not producing 20 to 30% more weight either.

Just stating what I’ve personally seen. All going to depend on the grower when it comes down to it.

that's actually false information though, not sure what you're getting at. "at the wall with a kilowatt meter" however most of us use watt meters with our lights doesn't matter what kind of light we are using. What kinda logic is this?

A 600w LED will compare to a 1000w HPS in terms of light output. ACTUAL DRAW FROM THE WALL.

Science has changed. Tech has changed. This is no longer LEDs from 5, 10, 15 years ago.

LED vs HPS 2021 | 600W HPS to LED comparison

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This video is 2 years old, take that for consideration.

 

[PipeCarver]

My take on results I’ve seen, Hps flower MH Veg, resulting in better looking and fatter buds comparing to LED. The top LED’s take the same if not more watts then the HPS/MH from the wall! . You need twice as many led fixtures compared to HPS/MH, Even on the bar type. LED’s do go dead light, there’s always that one that does in the middle of flower/veg. All Led growers have to lower lights to fluorescent light levels anywhere from 6 inches to a foot above canopy. They can’t use at 100% because it burns the tops so they get better results dimming to 60-80%.

Then some have to bring in a heater because of colder temperatures.

There were top growers producing 2-3lbs per light with magnetic ballast HPS.
If you don’t overwater, and have a full canopy of healthy plants, at proper light height that you don’t bleach tops +what the light space is attended for. 600w 4ftx4ft, 1,000w 5ftx5ft with 18”-2ft stacked buds in every trellis hole 3.5”.

With the 12-1 veg +11/13 flower HPS/MH is still in the game as top competitor. Can’t argue light spectrum right amount of heat plants take all of it. MH bulb (No dimming) MH should never be dimmed run at 100% always.
(MH)Can be used in veg up to wk3 flower, stacks tight nodes this way.

Then switch to HPS for flower. Use the best bulbs on the market, count your hours of use it will last multiple years. Most run 10,000hrs with 10% loss. Do the Math get a calculator!!

Main problem I see and I’m guilty of is not using the equipment properly and efficiently mainly because the manufactures don’t even know how.

I’d prefer HID HPS/MH single ended 600w or 1000w air cooled hoods one fan for two hoods. Don’t have to worry about heat. Don’t have to worry about bulbs, getting water contact and exploding. Great for lower ceilings.

Double ended HPS is more for commercial. You need 12 foot ceilings 10 at the least, they run Hotter but are 25%more efficient
than single ended.

Plus running on 220-240v is better efficiency for the lights. Needs extra safety equipment to do so but worth it.

Leds make the claim of more #’s per light, but to me quality means way more as I’m all for Medical not commercial. Quality over quantity any day of the year. Medical means more than profit. Your health is your wealth.

Just my personal opinion I can show pictures if others are interested I’m sure Many will disagree.

Seen some top growers still doing great with Bat wing Hps/Mh. It comes down to grower experience not always the equipment used. But not using the equipment to the fullest potential is not a fare comparison to me.

CMH does great in Veg/flower as well.

Edited : because talk text wants to change wording I didn’t say. My fault for not proof reading cpu.

"Then switch to HPS for flower. Use the best bulbs on the market, count your hours of use it will last multiple years. Most run 10,000hrs with 10% loss. Do the Math get a calculator!!"

I don't agree with 2+ years out of the light. one year running 12 hrs a day = 4380 hrs and that's just about all the use I get from the 1000watt Eye Hortilux before I see dimming of the lamp....I replace mine yearly if I'm running it every day and I've had ballast issues running lamps that are old trying to fire up spent lamps.....I've also seen the difference in quality and the longevity of inferior bulbs like the Vivosun. Crap to start and don't last 6 months