HPS light superior vs current led tech?

[Horterculture]

Instead of HPS, if I were you, I'd consider two CMH LEC 315s. Each one will cover 3x3' space. That would fit your space very well. (They make a 630.). I think separate fixtures would give you more flexibility and if one went out, you'd still have some light. (You can get remote-mount ballasts if heat is a problem. CMH isn't very hot even with the ballast in the tent.). Use the 4200 bulb for veg. After 12/12 stretch is complete, switch to the 3100. (Some people use 4200 all the way through. If you switch to soon, they'll stretch to much.).

I've grown a considerable amount using LED. I ended up feeling like they don't produce the same finished quality (crystals, terpenes). I think it has something to do with absence of UV. It's also a very confusing topic with so *much* flim flam out there (cheap LEDs sold for high-end prices). There are good brands. If you absolutely need heat reduction, lower energy use, then spending more for high-end LED could be worth it. But, not all expensive LED is high end. So... it can take time orienting yourself to the topic. The mid-grade brands aren't going to run cooler or more effciently than CMH (at 35w/sq ft. I guess the ballast adds 10% to that.). But, if you're considering HPS, I'd replace that idea with CMH.

I was turned onto CMH bulbs by a friend and I will never use anything else unless I specifically have a high quality. LED as may be a KIND kind or California light works but if not those higher quality brands CMH is definitely cooler to run and it also includes ultraviolet light. I’m sure there are some negatives. This is the first post I ever made so go easy on me lol

 

[PipeCarver]

I was turned onto CMH bulbs by a friend and I will never use anything else unless I specifically have a high quality. LED as may be a KIND kind or California light works but if not those higher quality brands CMH is definitely cooler to run and it also includes ultraviolet light. I’m sure there are some negatives. This is the first post I ever made so go easy on me lol

Hi, welcome. I've never used the CMH so I've knowledge of them I use Fluorescent to veg under and hps & or led to flower under. I need all the heat magnetic ballasts & a 1000w light can put out in a cold dark basement...

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

I don't agree with 2+ years out of the light. one year running 12 hrs a day = 4380 hrs and that's just about all the use I get from the 1000watt Eye Hortilux before I see dimming of the lamp

now we are down to 4380 hours..
its your reflector that is losing reflectivity, replace yearly bulbs dont need yearly replacement but they are replaced anyway as noone is interesting in labeling hours the specific bulbs

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

This video is 2 years old, take that for consideration.

yes it may be, a video released today doesnt make a difference they are comparing a single hps to single led. if this is your home setup then yes end of argument led is better. but 99.9 percent of cannabis currently isnt grown in tents. we need to consider spaces that accommodate for more lights.

take a room lets say 10x15, you want to grow some cannabis and am currently only considering lights and doing planning around that.
how many 1000w hps fixtures do you think you need for this space. you can do it with 6 to 8. lets compare that to led, the same space 9 to 12 lights. you see the distribution of led currently sucks, while hps has much greater distribution. its wide angle reflector vs well not much reflection at all. so in this scenario you are running 6kw of hps vs 8 or 9kw of led. you think 9 kw of led runs cool? both need rapid air movement and adequate ventilation in addition to other environmental control.

 

[Aqua Man]

yes it may be, a video released today doesnt make a difference they are comparing a single hps to single led. if this is your home setup then yes end of argument led is better. but 99.9 percent of cannabis currently isnt grown in tents. we need to consider spaces that accommodate for more lights.

take a room lets say 10x15, you want to grow some cannabis and am currently only considering lights and doing planning around that.
how many 1000w hps fixtures do you think you need for this space. you can do it with 6 to 8. lets compare that to led, the same space 9 to 12 lights. you see the distribution of led currently sucks, while hps has much greater distribution. its wide angle reflector vs well not much reflection at all. so in this scenario you are running 6kw of hps vs 8 or 9kw of led. you think 9 kw of led runs cool? both need rapid air movement and adequate ventilation in addition to other environmental control.

Almost all new commercial grows being setup and many of the older are upgrading to LED

 

[Aqua Man]

I really don’t understand how this is still a topic of discussion in 2023… inless you have a budget restraint, the master grower doesn’t want to make the environmental changes and endure the learning curve … there is no reason to not be running LED.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

Almost all new commercial grows being setup and many of the older are upgrading to LED

yes im trying to get at, these 2 technologies are being compared directly to each other when both have different affects on the other inputs.
true some are upgrading, personally i am seeing still mostly hps. with little concern for upgrade, once you are running flowering rooms 12months of the year the profit are there no matter what tech you are using

 

[Shaded_One]

I really don’t understand how this is still a topic of discussion in 2023… inless you have a budget restraint, the master grower doesn’t want to make the environmental changes and endure the learning curve … there is no reason to not be running LED.

I'm honestly not sure either...like the data has been analyzed, over analyzed, and then beaten to death with a baseball bat and full spectrum LEDs at this point in the game are just more efficient per watt than MH, HPS, CMH or any other kind of incandescent lighting. Plugging it into a watt meter doesn't magically change any of this data.

Yes growers exist that still successfully use these lighting methods, and most of it its for a specific purpose ie. you need the radiant heat from the lights. I'm not sure in what other scenario where 30% of your energy is being emitted as heat leads anyone to claim this as more efficient?

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

Yes growers exist that still successfully use these lighting methods, and most of it its for a specific purpose ie. you need the radiant heat from the lights. I'm not sure in what other scenario where 30% of your energy is being emitted as heat leads you to claim this as more efficient?

adding 30% more light fixtures to cover the area is what im trying to get at and is the main topic of discussion with growers who are on the fence about switching.

 

[Aqua Man]

adding 30% more light fixtures to cover the area is what im trying to get at and is the main topic of discussion with growers who are on the fence about switching.

No you need less because you get more light per watt

 

[Shaded_One]

adding 30% more light fixtures to cover the area is what im trying to get at and is the main topic of discussion with growers who are on the fence about switching.

I was replying directly to the gentleman who was saying that MH and HPS are more efficient than LED and that you actually need MORE watts of LED to compare to a similar watt grow using MH or HPS. That information was just flat out false.

In response to your comment, yes there are more factors that come into the equation than just using more light though. Your running costs increase drastically when using anything except LED. As I said there are reasons to use these other methods of lighting, but citing efficiency as the reason isn't the best route to take.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

No you need less because you get more light per watt

less leds to cover the same area as hps? just so im sure

 

[Shaded_One]

less leds to cover the same area as hps? just so im sure

that is correct. Have you looked at par maps? If HPS is less efficient, produces less umol of light...why would you think you would need MORE LED to compare?

I'm legit confused. And you're comparing # of lights to actual wattage, which is what we are getting at here.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

I was replying directly to the gentleman who was saying that MH and HPS are more efficient than LED and that you actually need MORE watts of LED to compare to a similar watt grow using MH or HPS. That information was just flat out false.

agree

In response to your comment, yes there are more factors that come into the equation than just using more light though. Your running costs increase drastically when using anything except LED. As I said there are reasons to use these other methods of lighting, but citing efficiency as the reason isn't the best route to take.

no i agree on efficiency that was more valid point back when this thread came into existence. your running costs do agree but if you do the math on one room 9 to 12 leds 1000w's no less and multiply that by amount of rooms you will soon realize that led is only a longterm investment. and im not sure on whether or not the led lose efficiency by that time

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

that is correct. Have you looked at par maps? If HPS is less efficient, produces less umol of light...why would you think you would need MORE LED to compare?

overlapping, im obv not the best at drawing thoughts down to words but i can draw you a picture? or do you follow where im going with overlapping and reflection angles

 

[Shaded_One]

overlapping, im obv not the best at drawing thoughts down to words but i can draw you a picture? or do you follow where im going with overlapping and reflection angles

I do not follow anything you are saying to be honest(not trying to be mean) Smarter people than me have been consulted, analyzed, and tested/reported this data much more concisely and clearly than I can.

High quality, full spectrum LED will produce more usable PPFD/m2 than MH or HPS of equivalent wattage.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

I do not follow anything you are saying to be honest.

well i have tried by creating a 10x15 room scenario in previous post i dont know how else to explain it, maybe in my own language id do better
i argue on the side of hps but im fully behind the switch the led, the latest led that is. just for the record

 

[Shaded_One]

well i have tried by creating a 10x15 room scenario in previous post i dont know how else to explain it, maybe in my own language id do better
i argue on the side of hps but im fully behind the switch the led, the latest led that is. just for the record

Typical rule of thumb is 600-800w of LED for a 5x5 square, so take that for what its worth when comparing to MH and HPS :P

your 10x15 room would have 6 individual 5x5 squares meaning you would need 6x600w LEDs minimum to completely light that grow room

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

Typical rule of thumb is 600-800w of LED for a 5x5 square, so take that for what its worth when comparing to MH and HPS :P

your 10x15 room would have 6 individual 5x5 squares meaning you would need 6x600w LEDs minimum to completely light that grow room

at what height would i have to run these 600w led lights though. and adjust 2inches daily on 6 lights per room. hps ceiling height 1000w no issue with that nonsense. or am i wrong

LED vs HPS 2021 | 600W HPS to LED comparison

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not seeing par maps hanging heights..

 

[Aqua Man]

less leds to cover the same area as hps? just so im sure

Yes… especially at equal wattage