HPS light superior vs current led tech?

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

I don't know the direct correlations but you can see that it is not 1:1

this i agree with and stated in my opening argument, led vs hps 1 on 1 is a no brainer. as these setups are usually done in tents where led claims of coverage actually manifest on the real world

, you require much less wattage of LED to produce much more usable light compared to MH, HPS, or CMH.

definitely

Every light will be different based on many factors.

but none of them really have reflection thus require more fixtures this is my only remaining concern.

 

[Shaded_One]

this i agree with and stated in my opening argument, led vs hps 1 on 1 is a no brainer. as these setups are usually done in tents where led claims of coverage actually manifest on the real world

definitely

but none of them really have reflection thus require more fixtures this is my only remaining concern.

No. You are assuming that LED's behave like MH or HPS. They do not.

I literally broke it down to the simplest form for you - a 5x5 square. What light would you use to light up this space?

Most likely a 1000w HPS or MH.

And you would be fine with a 6-800w LED.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

You can do some math...I feel like you're not being as resourceful as you're capable of :)

are you insinuating i'm into being spoon fed information then yes

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

No. You are assuming that LED's behave like MH or HPS. They do not.

please elaborate

 

[Shaded_One]

please elaborate

LED's produce more PPFD per watt than MH or HPS.
LED's can be kept closer to the plants than MH or HPS.
LED's have a totally different PAR spread compared to that of MH or HPS.

The charts he posted were for 600w MH/CMH/HPS. So just multiply by 1.67 to get to 1000w. Take all of the numbers and multiply by that amount to get equivalents

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

LED's are surface mound diodes (SMD) meaning all energy is facing down on the plant. This negates the need for a reflector. Also, most sources I've seen say LEDs in the 680w-720w range are superior to 1000w HPS lighting. There's a lot less energy being lost as heat and far more useable light being produced per watt.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

all energy is facing down on the plant. This negates the need for a reflector.

this also means only plants directly under are really getting any usable ppdf. this results in having to run them end to end like i said and see..
with hid and reflectors you have overlapping light spread that combines to a usable ppfd.

 

[Shaded_One]

@GreenGalaxyFarm

I also just want to clarify that getting caught up on par maps and par spreads is a tricky subject because that will vary WIDELY from LED to LED. All of these lights would have a very different par maps and spreads assuming they were all the same watts.

 

[Shaded_One]

this also means only plants directly under are really getting any usable ppdf. this results in having to run them end to end like i said and see..
with hid and reflectors you have overlapping light spread that combines to a usable ppfd.

LED's also have overlapping lights as well, you act like MH or HPS have some magical radius that goes on forever with usable PPFD.

This just tells me you haven't spent any real significant amount of time looking at and comparing PAR maps between lights and I will have to see myself out of this very long, very lengthy seminar :p

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

this also means only plants directly under are really getting any usable ppdf. this results in having to run them end to end like i said and see..
with hid and reflectors you have overlapping light spread that combines to a usable ppfd.

No, you're over-thinking this ... Modern LEDs cast light at about 120 degrees so you still have some of this over-lap. You will be light years ahead using LEDs in any kind of commercial facility.

 

[Shaded_One]

so you'd rather have much, much less PPFD....spread over a larger area? ok

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

LED's also have overlapping lights as well, you act like MH or HPS have some magical radius that goes on forever with usable PPFD.

much less, and no i hid doesnt have a magical radius. 150degrees compared to leds is much more spread tho

This just tells me you haven't spent any real significant amount of time looking at and comparing PAR maps between lights and I will have to see myself out of this very long, very lengthy seminar :p

i have only been arguing for the sake of this thread and getting to the conclusion. nothing so far has been directed at you.
@Shaded_One you can leave anytime this has been going on for some time. it is however only in you last few messages that you start to discuss overlapping after i have tried to bring it up multiple times. if you dont understand the importance of it it makes for a long seminar sure

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

No, you're over-thinking this ... Modern LEDs cast light at about 120 degrees so you still have some of this over-lap. You will be light years ahead using LEDs in any kind of commercial facility.

i would agree with this any day. there is slight overlap nothing like reflectors offer. light years ahead for sure only if you can afford the expense associated with led, upfront cost being the critical one. the gavita replacement offered is again light years ahead of hid but at what cost.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

It's the focused light that you receive from LEDs that make it much more efficient than the HID.

Are you currently pursuing a commercial operation? If so, let me tell you what is happening in my area right now in these commercial facilities ... They are switching out the HID lighting and replacing them with LEDs. My nephew is an engineer at one of these grow ops. This weekend, he told me about how they have swapped out 70 1000w HPS fixtures for 70 ROI-E720's in his facilities. They expect the savings alone on electricity costs (lighting and cooling) will pay for this upgrade within the year.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

It's the focused light that you receive from LEDs that make it much more efficient than the HID.

little to no wasted photons, got it. win for led

They expect the savings alone on electricity costs (lighting and cooling) will pay for this upgrade within the year.

expect or have calculated?

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

little to no wasted photons, got it. win for led

expect or have calculated?

They have run the numbers.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

They have run the numbers.

ok ill run numbers tomorrow, wholesalers have gavita pro 1700 led v2 no ct2000e. so ill run it on the bar light, to determine if you can make such a recovery in expenses over the course of a year.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

ok ill run numbers tomorrow, wholesalers have gavita pro 1700 led v2 no ct2000e. so ill run it on the bar light, to determine if you can make such a recovery in expenses over the course of a year.

Don't forget to factor cooling costs. LEDs take far less energy $$ to keep things cool, and this is where a significant part of your savings will be found.

 

[Shaded_One]

It's not like electricity is getting any cheaper. I would be myself if I was running a commercial op that hadn't switched to LED. Sorry last post

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

Don't forget to factor cooling costs. LEDs take far less energy $$ to keep things cool, and this is where a significant part of your savings will be found.

which makes it all extremely difficult to determine. climate control yes uses more energy in hid situations but how we determine to savings form switching to led. at what watts are we running to control climate varies so cost estimation becomes difficult. hids running cost is higher on all fronts this i agree with.