HPS light superior vs current led tech?

[MidwestToker]

I would ignore that debacco guy. I don't see people growing with enough blue since blurples got "cash for clunkered" (convinced someone demonized then bought up all those good blurple spectrums). Everyone is under 3-3500K led which suck and don't let the plant transpire, so..


Heat isn't the issue. Most white leds lack usable red. Heat is a bandaid to get P flowing because it falls on the IR spectrum, but much higher than 630-830 which the plant actually wants.

View attachment 1327496

17% 660 diodes. With 5K chips for blue. Next year's model will have even less white/green/yellow and dedicated 460nm. One step closer to acceptable. Closer to blurple lol.

Waiting on science? Yeah, that's why Oak Island had a billion episodes lol. Fuck the led industry. The first brand to put a decent spectrum out with a veg/bloom switch must have been threatened by the led mafia. There's no reason for all these useless 3000K lights with no red and no blue.

Do you not see 660's and reds and far reds in those fixtures ?

 

[Aqua Man]

this still going? Lol. Let me through some scientific gas on this think tank. Can’t count how many times i have linked this. Not sure it ever gets read.

lets just say there are a lot more studies on the topic and there is no one best spectral ratio. Much like nutrient ratios, spectral ratio ideals (based on our desires not nature) change depending on stage of growth.

So you all keep arguing about the source of photons like it matters and forget about the rest. The source only matters from and efficiency standpoint the rest is soectral related. A photon at certain wavelength is the same no matter the source.

An Update on Plant Photobiology and Implications for Cannabis Production

This review presents recent developments in plant photobiology and lighting systems for horticultural crops, as well as potential applications for cannabis (Cannabis sativa and C. indica) plant production. The legal and commercial production of the cannabis plant is a relatively new, rapidly...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[Aqua Man]

Why are HPS buds bigger and greener than led?
If led is so much better and brighter than Hps why are they so close to the plants?

If led has such a better light output why aren’t they spaced 4-5ft away and 5ft off the canopy like double ended HPS lights are?

Why does LED take 1-2wks longer to veg than MH or even T5?

In indoor cannabis time is everything, extra time cost you an extra harvest per year.

Could be comparing apples to cucumbers here I’m just saying.

How many lights are on a led light to equal (1)1,000w bulb? Just saying it takes (1) Hps/MH bulb to do what it does.

I do think some of my words were taken out of context of what I wrote. Didn’t say Hps was more efficient just said LED’s aren’t what they claim wattage or 20-30% more efficient than HPS.

Kind of like buying old car amplifiers it said 1000 W and only put out 100w with 5% THD.

I’ve been working with led from year 2000 in construction. They would go out then still go out now usually a bulb or too, happens in automotive as well. Easier to replace a HPS/MH bulb, then the whole fixture of a LED

Commercial growers are going LED for the rebates most go bankrupt and out of business all the time pre madonna fly by night pop ups. The bigger the square footage, the higher, the taxes and overhead..

Just my opinion and thoughts, I don’t have a need for led or EV car or Solar.
Everyone has different needs use what makes you happy.
The grower makes the biggest difference period.

i call BS.

I would ignore that debacco guy. I don't see people growing with enough blue since blurples got "cash for clunkered" (convinced someone demonized then bought up all those good blurple spectrums). Everyone is under 3-3500K led which suck and don't let the plant transpire, so..


Heat isn't the issue. Most white leds lack usable red. Heat is a bandaid to get P flowing because it falls on the IR spectrum, but much higher than 630-830 which the plant actually wants.

View attachment 1327496

17% 660 diodes. With 5K chips for blue. Next year's model will have even less white/green/yellow and dedicated 460nm. One step closer to acceptable. Closer to blurple lol.

Waiting on science? Yeah, that's why Oak Island had a billion episodes lol. Fuck the led industry. The first brand to put a decent spectrum out with a veg/bloom switch must have been threatened by the led mafia. There's no reason for all these useless 3000K lights with no red and no blue.

and again i call BS

 

[PipeCarver]

i call BS.

and again i call BS

Hey Aqua man, I was skipping through that last report you posted until I came across the part on Red . Can you cut through this for me? I read that early red light and late red light ( dusk & Dawn light ) promotes flowering.....am I reading that right?

" In long day plants, various experiments suggest that flowering is promoted mostly when red light (or light creating a high Pfr/Pr ratio) is delivered during the early part of the photoperiod and when FR light (or light creating a lower Pfr/Pr ratio) is delivered toward the end of the photoperiod (Lane et al., 1965; Evans, 1976; Kadman-Zahavi and Ephrat, 1976; "

I've had mock dusk and dawn and I thought it helped. I think we spoke before on this but does this report confirm that or am I reading it wrong. I've read the Read section over a few times and Its a bit more than I can grasp and break down into something meaningful for me.....I've intended on my next grow to use my 4ft red led strip lights to come on 10 - 15 min early and run 10 - 15 min late mock dusk and dawn through flowering to see if I can notice any difference.

I would have posted the whole piece on Red but it was this part that caught my eye

 

[Aqua Man]

Hey Aqua man, I was skipping through that last report you posted until I came across the part on Red . Can you cut through this for me? I read that early red light and late red light ( dusk & Dawn light ) promotes flowering.....am I reading that right?

" In long day plants, various experiments suggest that flowering is promoted mostly when red light (or light creating a high Pfr/Pr ratio) is delivered during the early part of the photoperiod and when FR light (or light creating a lower Pfr/Pr ratio) is delivered toward the end of the photoperiod (Lane et al., 1965; Evans, 1976; Kadman-Zahavi and Ephrat, 1976; "

I've had mock dusk and dawn and I thought it helped. I think we spoke before on this but does this report confirm that or am I reading it wrong. I've read the Read section over a few times and Its a bit more than I can grasp and break down into something meaningful for me.....I've intended on my next grow to use my 4ft red led strip lights to come on 10 - 15 min early and run 10 - 15 min late mock dusk and dawn through flowering to see if I can notice any difference.

I would have posted the whole piece on Red but it was this part that caught my eye

Cannabis is a short day plant so the effects we see with R:FR have more to do with shade avoidance, emerson effect.
in short there would be no benefit to inducing or initiating flower as would be the case in most long day plants.

its the photoperiod that will determine flowering in photoperiod cannabis.

hope that helps brother

 

[PipeCarver]

Cannabis is a short day plant so the effects we see with R:FR have more to do with shade avoidance, emerson effect.
in short there would be no benefit to inducing or initiating flower as would be the case in most long day plants.

its the photoperiod that will determine flowering in photoperiod cannabis.

hope that helps brother

There's no wake or sleep time? isn't it supposed to take them up to 30 min to shut down / fall asleep? and do they wake instantly / quickly so there's no dawn or dusk period that they slowly adjust to? full light or full dark?

Come on guy, I'm trying to find a use for my red strip lights and by the sounds of things they're not going to be in the flower tent soon with your attitude.....string me along for a bit....tell me a story .......lol

 

[Aqua Man]

There's no wake or sleep time? isn't it supposed to take them up to 30 min to shut down / fall asleep? and do they wake instantly / quickly so there's no dawn or dusk period that they slowly adjust to? full light or full dark?

Yes in that aspect there is definitely an effect on the changes in plant processes between photosynthesis and the calvin cycle and the time it takes to accomplish those changes.

As for what ratios and when im not familiar enought to make an accurate statement or give advice on how to best achieve that

 

[MedicalHydroponics]

i call BS.

and again i call BS

 

[MedicalHydroponics]

Hps was getting 2-3# per light with good growers back then.

 

[Aqua Man]

Hps was getting 2-3# per light with good growers back then.

Whats your point some growers are getting 3+ with LED. With wattage close to 30% less

are you suggesting the source of a photon somehow creates a different photon?

you tell me what the difference is then…. why does HPS grow bigger buds? other than your personal nostalgia.

i can explain you statement in facts but i bet you can’t

this will end one way if you want to debate It. You looking stupid and that is a fact. You want me to start ripping your previous post apart to show you?

 

[Aqua Man]

View attachment 1330303
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View attachment 1330311

now you just stealing random pics of shit of the internet?

you post this.

then post those pics? Which one are you? Or did you need to go find pics of someone elses grow?

Lets not forget that weight is COMPLETELY subjective and almost completely determined by genetics and timeframe of growth

 

[Anthem]

Hps was getting 2-3# per light with good growers back then.

But those are in the range I get with my shitty 640 watt LED's. No big deal been getting those sort of numbers for several years know, but still shitty LED's. I have one simple question for you and @GreenGalaxyFarm any grows of YOUR OWN WITH LED's? I have done both so please be honest.

 

[Madmax]

But those are in the range I get with my shitty 640 watt LED's. No big deal been getting those sort of numbers for several years know, but still shitty LED's. I have one simple question for you and @GreenGalaxyFarm any grows of YOUR OWN WITH LED's? I have done both so please be honest.

good if we were close Anth as I’d swap you for a grow .i like your shitty led…but I love my shitty led .

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

But those are in the range I get with my shitty 640 watt LED's. No big deal been getting those sort of numbers for several years know, but still shitty LED's. I have one simple question for you and @GreenGalaxyFarm any grows of YOUR OWN WITH LED's? I have done both so please be honest.

as things stand currently im not interested in led, yet. in my cart i have two 1000 hps lights coming to light up a 9x5 area.

 

[Observationist]

periphery with 600's in a 5x5, you will have high par in the middle and low par numbers in corners,

One of these contradict the other, or am I so sleep deprived retarded?

That's the beauty of LED bar lights, even spread over a larger footprint of your canopy.

 

[Cirroji]

I had only done runs before this grow with MH/HPS - years later after LED had apparently really went through some generational growth and many o' revisions - I don't miss my old setup at all.

ever had a MH blow up on ya? the heat my HPS put out vs my LED is almost enough for me to forgive any type of performance gap you may see.
growth is better than my old setup too - i am very excited to see my final harvest but I am not going back to that method period

i think people forget a key lesson in gardening in general.

sometimes it's not the unicycle - but the clown riding on it

@Aqua Man tried explaining that some people after years of fine tuning have made an exact craft and don't need to upgrade.

but when a new product comes along and makes some of those crafts irrelevant and unnecessary to worry about it not only allows focus on other aspects of your grow but reduces failure points

just because some people haven't spent thousands to upgrade larger setups when what they have is still sufficient is NOT evidence whatsoever of a superior product

This argument seems to only focus on PPFD when so many other factors come into play - how many grows do you think you're gonna get with MH/HPS before those lights start to weaken and mid grow you realize it? Failure points in technology , who's using more electricity ? What era of technology are you buying for top dollar? Like a fax machine - it's the same damn tech for the last 30 years

 

[MedicalHydroponics]

now you just stealing random pics of shit of the internet?

you post this.

View attachment 1330334
then post those pics? Which one are you? Or did you need to go find pics of someone elses grow?

Lets not forget that weight is COMPLETELY subjective and almost completely determined by genetics and timeframe of growth

Whats your point some growers are getting 3+ with LED. With wattage close to 30% less

are you suggesting the source of a photon somehow creates a different photon?

you tell me what the difference is then…. why does HPS grow bigger buds? other than your personal nostalgia.

i can explain you statement in facts but i bet you can’t

this will end one way if you want to debate It. You looking stupid and that is a fact. You want me to start ripping your previous post apart to show you?

Where is this coming from? You gonna make me look stupid. I didn’t join to debate, I joined to learn and share.

I showed you could save 60% of E-bill with the 12-1 and 11/13.

You called BS on Hps buds being bigger and greener than led, I showed random pictures didn’t steal its public domain, didn’t claim to be mine. It’s not just my Opinion but many top growers agree. Plus veg time is faster with MH by 1-2 weeks.

My point was Hps was getting 2-3 lbs per light back then, you say LED gets 3lbs per light now. Weight is not everything quality is. Taste,smell,looks, body high or head high, uplifting feeling or totally relaxed etc…

Point is it’s not the light that’s affecting the grow. Many wouldn’t change if they are getting 2# per light of primo top grade A buds with HPS. Still wouldn’t change with 1-1/2# per light.

The buds do look bigger and greener to you yes or no? Led has to be dimmed if it was at 100% it would burn the plant at the 4-8” they are hung from the canopy.
Led grows have double the light of an HPS grow.

For me I’m sticking with xxxl air cooled SE HID HPS/MH. 600w & 1000w.
I can be energy conserving enough to not make the change.

It’s not the LED or HPS/MH that’s going to get you automatically 2-3lbs per light, I know we can agree on this 1 thing.

I hope to show and share my own personal medical grow/build as I’m apart of the original prop 215 card holders.

 

[MedicalHydroponics]

I had only done runs before this grow with MH/HPS - years later after LED had apparently really went through some generational growth and many o' revisions - I don't miss my old setup at all.

ever had a MH blow up on ya? the heat my HPS put out vs my LED is almost enough for me to forgive any type of performance gap you may see.
growth is better than my old setup too - i am very excited to see my final harvest but I am not going back to that method period

i think people forget a key lesson in gardening in general.

sometimes it's not the unicycle - but the clown riding on it

@Aqua Man tried explaining that some people after years of fine tuning have made an exact craft and don't need to upgrade.

but when a new product comes along and makes some of those crafts irrelevant and unnecessary to worry about it not only allows focus on other aspects of your grow but reduces failure points

just because some people haven't spent thousands to upgrade larger setups when what they have is still sufficient is NOT evidence whatsoever of a superior product

This argument seems to only focus on PPFD when so many other factors come into play - how many grows do you think you're gonna get with MH/HPS before those lights start to weaken and mid grow you realize it? Failure points in technology , who's using more electricity ? What era of technology are you buying for top dollar? Like a fax machine - it's the same damn tech for the last 30 years

Has anyone flowered at 13/11 what were your results is it worth it

so is there a conclusion or discussion part i can forward to, this guy is slow af also his first advise ''just run them 12/12 from the start'' for autos...needs depth further in im finding his understanding to be 8/8 will work for flower if it was presented better i believe people will...

www.thcfarmer.com

You can get 6,000 hrs or less with HPS high quality bulbs without any PAR loss.

 

[Aqua Man]

Where is this coming from? You gonna make me look stupid. I didn’t join to debate, I joined to learn and share.

I showed you could save 60% of E-bill with the 12-1 and 11/13.

You called BS on Hps buds being bigger and greener than led, I showed random pictures didn’t steal its public domain, didn’t claim to be mine. It’s not just my Opinion but many top growers agree. Plus veg time is faster with MH by 1-2 weeks.

My point was Hps was getting 2-3 lbs per light back then, you say LED gets 3lbs per light now. Weight is not everything quality is. Taste,smell,looks, body high or head high, uplifting feeling or totally relaxed etc…

Point is it’s not the light that’s affecting the grow. Many wouldn’t change if they are getting 2# per light of primo top grade A buds with HPS. Still wouldn’t change with 1-1/2# per light.

The buds do look bigger and greener to you yes or no? Led has to be dimmed if it was at 100% it would burn the plant at the 4-8” they are hung from the canopy.
Led grows have double the light of an HPS grow.

For me I’m sticking with xxxl air cooled SE HID HPS/MH. 600w & 1000w.
I can be energy conserving enough to not make the change.

It’s not the LED or HPS/MH that’s going to get you automatically 2-3lbs per light, I know we can agree on this 1 thing.

I hope to show and share my own personal medical grow/build as I’m apart of the original prop 215 card holders.

Wilk respond to this after work… im mot the one that brought up weight… you did and made claims. I did not make any claims that either is superior for weight. my claim was genetics.

now you just deflecting and back tracking on your claims.

ill finish pointing it all out to you once i get some time.

But in the meantime Maybe you can reference these pro growers you seem to speak on behalf of?

 

[Anthem]

as things stand currently im not interested in led, yet. in my cart i have two 1000 hps lights coming to light up a 9x5 area.

But you side stepped the question. Have you personal grown with LED's?