I Need Help: Yellowing Leaves, Nutrient Deficiency Symptoms

[ShroomKing]

Also i just saw the previous to last picture of a leaf, did you look at that on a loupe/microscope ? from the picture cannot tell if it is insect damage, insect droppins, or fungal.

The damage on the leaf you see is necrosis from phosphorus depletion.

Just a heads up.

Peace

 

[Coronel]

The damage on the leaf you see is necrosis from phosphorus depletion.

Just a heads up.

Peace

The last picture shows the stains that could relate to that but the previous to last (the third one from the top) shows a powdery like thing, the seems not to be part of the leave but something on top of it... but again needs a closer look.

 

[ShroomKing]

The last picture shows the stains that could relate to that but the previous to last (the third one from the top) shows a powdery like thing, the seems not to be part of the leave but something on top of it... but again needs a closer look.

Oh yeah! Good eye , it looks fungal.

 

[tinderthumbs]

rh around 54 most times and no the leafs are yellow and flimsy like wet they just roll up In your hand

 

[hermit186]

I will not get into why but one of your bigger problems is you need to thin out the bush and get air moving up thru those plant not making them move around a lot but wiggling a little.
After that I would listen to what ShroomKing is saying, he is not always right but in never all wrong.
Read some of seamaiden about deficiencies.

 

[GT21]

Ok, I've been battling this issue for months now, and I'm on my second grow where I'm experiencing it. I've done extensive research, and have tried a few remedies to no avail.

The symptoms are that after about the 3rd week of flower (photos below are week 6 of flower), the color of the leaves start fading towards yellow on old and new growth, and old lower fan leaves get VERY yellow and start dropping. Some leaves show speckling or burning symptoms. I run organic living soil that I mixed myself, although on the last grow I had four different types of soil and was experiencing the same symptoms in all pots. I do a VERY light feeding regiment of Big Bloom once a week during flower. I've tried doing a couple feedings of Tiger Bloom in this last run, but it made no noticeable difference.

Strain:
-> Bubblegum

Soil background:
-> Homemade soil: CocoCoir, Peat, EW castings, lavarock/rice hulls, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, crab meal, azomite, rock phosphate
-> Also have had this problem in FFOF new, FFOF on it's second run, and Happy Frog.

Living soil:
-> I have live red wriggler worms that are VERY happy in the pots
-> I've hit it once with compost tea when flipping
-> Aphids are always around to some degree, with lady bugs to combat
-> Lots of spring tail larva in soil
-> Seeing adult sciaridae fungs gnats now

Remedies I have tried:
-> Foliar soluble calcium spray & soil drench @100ppm
-> Foliar soluble magnesium (epsom salts) & soil drench @ 100ppm
-> Repeated use of Big Bloom, with and without homemade cal/mag added
-> A couple waterings of Tiger Bloom

WHAT SUSPECT:
-> Possible Root Aphids, although I haven't been able to find any larva or adults
-> Possible Sciaridae fungus gnat root damage
-> Possible salt nutrient lock out, although I doubt it, given multiple soil types and light feeding.
-> Possible overwatering.
-> Possible that my organic soil hasn't broken down yet, and the plants are literally starving for nutes.

Does anyone have any ideas? I might hit it with some OG Biowar root packs and foliar spray, but I really want to know WHY this is happening. Thank you!

(My homemade soil analysis is below too. This was before plants were transplanted in to it).

You check for thrips and mites? ... do you check runoff ph? You may be putting plenty of nutes into the medium but the ph is making it lock out.

 

[ShroomKing]

I would listen to what ShroomKing is saying, he is not always right but in never all wrong.

I'm glad you put that out there.
I know of a few times that I've given crap advice. Lol

 

[Perception]

Neither of you mention RH in the setup, nor temperatures.
You can't be growing outside?

Also i just saw the previous to last picture of a leaf, did you look at that on a loupe/microscope ? from the picture cannot tell if it is insect damage, insect droppins, or fungal.

If not in the south hemisphere growing outdoors, what light, type, watts, distance from the ladies?

I fell behind on my responses! Busy week at work. I just hit 8 weeks in flower. Going to harvest these soon. Buds still look good, but plants have not improved. I'll try to answer some questions quick:

• Ph: I don't know, will check
• Light: LEC-315, indoor
• Light is about 18" away
• Daytime temps: ~79
• Nighttme: ~71
• RH: hovers around 35-45
• Lots of air flow & fan action

@Coronel @ShroomKing here are some 10x and 30x microscope photos of the leaves with that powder looking discoloration. Lots of spider mite action and eggs. I've sprayed a couple times in the last month with neem, and recently sprayed with a dilute hydrogen peroxide solution. Apparently they are kicking back up, but I've mostly been keeping them down. No webs yet, and not many larger adults, and I'm about to harvest (with a good wash).

 

[Perception]

It's Nitrogen and Phosphorus deficiencies.

Simply put, the soil mix doesn't have what it takes to get you all the way to finish.

Best of luck.
Peace

I like this concept.

And thanks everyone else too for the well thought out ideas. I really appreciate it

 

[Coronel]

Well by the damage and the amount of eggs seen on those picts, you have enough of them to slow down the plants.

How are you appliying the neem?
I use: lukewarm water (about 300ml), add 3 drops of dish-wash liquid then add a Teaspoon of neem, shake well and apply under the leaves not on top.

The lukewarm water helps emulsifying the soap and oil into something more homogeneously mixed...

I have applied that under the microscope and you can actually see the neem dissolving the shit out of them. but you gotta apply it everyday or every two days as egg eclose in three days time and you have stages adults reproducing so you gotta be aggressive for at least 9 days to make sure you get the young eclosed spiders before they can lay new eggs.

I dont think you had deficiencies, the plants were being suck the life out of them, that's it.

After harvest wash everything with bleach and have a pause time of about 1 week so whatever mite you didn't get with the bleach migrates somewhere else in the search for plants :D

Good luck!

 

[Smerb]

I fell behind on my responses! Busy week at work. I just hit 8 weeks in flower. Going to harvest these soon. Buds still look good, but plants have not improved. I'll try to answer some questions quick:

• Ph: I don't know, will check
• Light: LEC-315, indoor
• Light is about 18" away
• Daytime temps: ~79
• Nighttme: ~71
• RH: hovers around 35-45
• Lots of air flow & fan action

@Coronel @ShroomKing here are some 10x and 30x microscope photos of the leaves with that powder looking discoloration. Lots of spider mite action and eggs. I've sprayed a couple times in the last month with neem, and recently sprayed with a dilute hydrogen peroxide solution. Apparently they are kicking back up, but I've mostly been keeping them down. No webs yet, and not many larger adults, and I'm about to harvest (with a good wash).

Man oh man! I'm sure all of us have had this problem...... Hurry and harvest. Smoke all that if you so choose. Good luck on the next one, keep it neem!

 

[iKharon]

It's Nitrogen and Phosphorus deficiencies.

Simply put, the soil mix doesn't have what it takes to get you all the way to finish.

Best of luck.
Peace

N was my thought exactly. Never a fan of ffof by itself.

 

[Perception]

Well by the damage and the amount of eggs seen on those picts, you have enough of them to slow down the plants.

How are you appliying the neem?
I use: lukewarm water (about 300ml), add 3 drops of dish-wash liquid then add a Teaspoon of neem, shake well and apply under the leaves not on top.

The lukewarm water helps emulsifying the soap and oil into something more homogeneously mixed...

I have applied that under the microscope and you can actually see the neem dissolving the shit out of them. but you gotta apply it everyday or every two days as egg eclose in three days time and you have stages adults reproducing so you gotta be aggressive for at least 9 days to make sure you get the young eclosed spiders before they can lay new eggs.

I dont think you had deficiencies, the plants were being suck the life out of them, that's it.

After harvest wash everything with bleach and have a pause time of about 1 week so whatever mite you didn't get with the bleach migrates somewhere else in the search for plants :D

I was applying the neem exactly as you said, but I only did it once every two weeks, and I only did it twice. So not much. The spider mites aren't nearly that bad over rest of plants though. I had to search for about 30 seconds to find that leaf I photographed. There were other leaves like that, but far and few between. It wasn't easy to find the spider mites. Alas, they still could be a problem. The yellowing appeared before I saw any spider mites though.

Applying neem every day for a week won't hurt the plants?

N was my thought exactly. Never a fan of ffof by itself.

I totally agree. Could be a nutrient deficiency too, which is ATTRACTING more bugs due to the sickly plants. So right now, I either have pathogenic bugs, or a deficiency. I just don't know.

I spent 30 minutes yesterday searching (with and without a magnifying glass & jewelers loupe) the pots, soil surface, and grow space for root aphids in the soil, or the adult fliers, and didn't find any. But I am still leaning more towards pathogenic pests than nutrient deficiencies.

 

[Coronel]

Spider mites damage is not seen until the plants have been weakened by the numbers.

Also they only appear in very dry environments so maybe your humidity got too low at a time? A dry spell? Under watering ?

Since the Mites feed on the Chlorophyll cells (I think to remember they pierce the cell wall and suck it dry... for simplification) their damage appears similar to a N def, as the plant is constantly trying to build more Chlorophyll and using the available N, since the leaves cannot keep up with the energy demands of rebuilding the internal blocks and the plant is deprived by the mites feeding on its energy source the plant looks sad and growing is stunted. (I have seen it in many organic crops, basil, pepper, olive trees and in decorative plants like ficus etc) Bottom feeding usually makes for the nice dry top soil that makes for the dry canopy they prefer to lay eggs.

All efforts to kill bugs in a "Organic/Natural way" without using a bug bomb must be applied understanding the life cycle of the bug. (Life spawn, reproductive habits, preferred environment) and the action of the product. Most of the products used are not residual for example neem stops working once dries., but when still liquid it dissolves the exoskeleton of the bug exposing the bug's wet parts and killing it by dehydration.

Applying neem that often wont hurt the plant unless you drench the soil and it gets to the roots.

At the end of the treatment you can always spray water and a few drops of dish soap to dilute and help wash what little neem has dried sticking to the leaves. Also expect a little light burn damage here and there where a big drop of oil formed, that's why is better to spray it on lights off so it has time to evaporate before you photon blast them.


In order to see root aphids you need a very potent magnifying glass, never hurts if you have access to Diatomaceous Earth to sprinkle some on the top soil for the small bugs is like walking barefoot on shredded glass and needles.

 

[Perception]

All awesome info, thank you so much!

I harvested last night. And despite the sickly plants, the buds made it through looking quite sticky and healthy. I can't help but wonder how good they would be from healthy plants!

Starting in mid March, I'm going to set up some experimental runs with varying soil types and feeding regiments. I'll probably run six small plants and get them in to flower fast. if I find any interesting results, I'll post to this thread. Thank you everyone again - I'll get this nut cracked.

 

[Coronel]

Beautiful harvest

 

[Perception]

Have one more plant That was flowering under veg light (experimenting with forcing feminized seeds) , and SAME problem started happening after 3rd week of flower.

Found a few of these little dudes walking around. A friend who works in a production grow warehouse forwarded the photo to one of his nutrient reps, and the rep was sure that it was an adult root aphid. Can anyone confirm?

I'll try and get some better photos - see if we can see any pipes on his butt.

 

[Coronel]

Have one more plant That was flowering under veg light (experimenting with forcing feminized seeds) , and SAME problem started happening after 3rd week of flower.

Found a few of these little dudes walking around. A friend who works in a production grow warehouse forwarded the photo to one of his nutrient reps, and the rep was sure that it was an adult root aphid. Can anyone confirm?

I'll try and get some better photos - see if we can see any pipes on his butt.

That my friend is an Adult flier Aphid!

Hidrogen Peroxide, H2O2, Oxygenated water (It is the same :D) 30 vols
Diluted 1 to 4 in water and flush every 3 days.

For 10 vols dilute 1/1

The roots will take a toll but if you stop them quick and aggressive they will recover once the bugs are reduced.

 

[hermit186]

That my friend is an Adult flier Aphid!

Hidrogen Peroxide, H2O2, Oxygenated water (It is the same :D) 30 vols
Diluted 1 to 4 in water and flush every 3 days.

For 10 vols dilute 1/1

The roots will take a toll but if you stop them quick and aggressive they will recover once the bugs are reduced.

Depending on the quantity if 1gal add a 500gr aspirin to the mix if you mix 1/2 gal then 1/2 aspirin and so on.
This will help the recovery time.

 

[Ganjalover23]

It's been a couple months but just in case...what's working for me is giving the plants full strength biowar tea. I mix worm castings, alfalfa, and kelp meal brew it for 12 hours drop in foliar and root pack brew another 12-16 hours and then water straight without diluting. I've done this twice already and my root aphids are almost all gone. I also dropped in some lady bugs and a combo of both is what's been doing the trick. One more full strength feeding and they should all be gone. Biowar is seriously the best