Ice Box Water-Cooled Heat Exchanger - anyone using these?

[ncga]

Hi All

Found this place after a long day searching on the Ice Box. nice to find a site that you can search for 3 letter words LOL

I had not planned on using the Ice Box but have some extra R&D funds about 1k total. I wanted to do some improvements on the lab as I like to do every year. The goal this year was to add air cooling to the Mondo hoods used. I mainly veg clones for clubs and clients. I use 400 MH, then swithc over to 600HPS for a "fun run" indoors early summer. Temps ar fine with a high of 86 with the two ortable Ac units.


I have 3 ses of three 400 that get converted over to one 1 K HPS and 5 600HPS for flowering. This year I also replaced all ballast.

4 400 MH mag ballast
1 430 HPS Magnetic ballast
3 600 HPS magnetic ballast
1 600 digital ballast
1 1K HPS ballast


All were replaced with

4 Cap Next gen 400/600 digital ( BTW you can over drive a 400 on the 600 setting. Not recommended . But did work for a week. Could not firgure out whay one lamp had so many more lumen's. But will do a run next year to find out if the lumen incress, Amp draw and bulb life are worth it)

 

[drgrnthmb]

heat exchanger

I am running 5 of these in a 10 x 10 room, one per light and one on top of my scrubbing carbon filter for extra ambient cooling. With my 2500 gallon in ground water tank the incoming h2o is 62 and keeps my room at 78. I have seen many people concerned about added humidity and I wanted to clear a couple things up. First off the heat exchanger is a closed system, meaning the water inside is never directly in contact with the flowing air. From time to time there will be condensation on the fins, however this is the humidity from withing the room itself condensing because of the temperature gradient; it is not adding to it, rather collecting on it. I do run a dehumidifier, which i would have to run anyway as i have a sealed enviornment. The large benifit for me has been decreased energy as my pump only uses 180 watts as compared to two 1200 watt ac's previously. Feel free to ask any ?'s

 

[callmac7]

thanx brother

 

[satori333]

Duct Cooling

I have been researching the Ice box design as well, but have not seen any conclusive evidence. Not sure why I can't just build my own heat exchanger out of copper tubing and say an 8" or 6" PVC pipe with it wound inside? any one else think this would work? I'm studying plastics engineering and have to cool large molds and such, so work with cooling designs, and not sure why to pay so much for packaging. I mean the Ice box can not be more than 3 inches thick, and if the main idea is contact area, this is a poor design. I'm gonna make one soon and will re-post the results.

My problem with AC units is that most will just cool the air directly in front of it but do a poor job of cooling the ambient temperature unless you get a very large one. Most people put their thermometer right in front of it and think its the room temp, silly.

 

[RMCG]

I have been researching the Ice box design as well, but have not seen any conclusive evidence. Not sure why I can't just build my own heat exchanger out of copper tubing and say an 8" or 6" PVC pipe with it wound inside? any one else think this would work? I'm studying plastics engineering and have to cool large molds and such, so work with cooling designs, and not sure why to pay so much for packaging. I mean the Ice box can not be more than 3 inches thick, and if the main idea is contact area, this is a poor design. I'm gonna make one soon and will re-post the results.

My problem with AC units is that most will just cool the air directly in front of it but do a poor job of cooling the ambient temperature unless you get a very large one. Most people put their thermometer right in front of it and think its the room temp, silly.

PC Overclocking guys are using small car heater cores. Chevelle or Bonneville cores can be had new from AutoZone/PepBoys/Checker for ~22$.

Here is a zip file of sizes, part numbers, etc.

 

[TopDog]

Why would anyone think about making one when they only cost about $150.

Also...unless you have a "2500" gallon underground water storage tank there is no point to cooling the hood air with heat exchanger only to then cool the water with a chiller unit (which works the same as an air conditioner). You might as well just cool the room entirely with a regular AC unit. Plus you get the added benefit of humidity removal.

 

[genuine]

geothermal....what recirulating pump?

My idea was to use 3-4 chillers. 1x per two f 600 watts lights with cool tubes, 1x on 400 watt and 1x as a room cooler. I have a hole I'm filling that is 16 ft deep. I have 7 food grade, new 55 gallon barrels with bung hole adapters. My idea was to connect these to = 300-ish gallon resevoir, plus 100 ft each way run of hose of PVC tubing. Supply and return lines will be in two seperate trenches to prevent thermal transfer at that stage.

Home Depot sells a Watts Plastic Hot Water Re-Circulating Pump with Timer
for $189.

So.... 1) is that a suffient pump size for system?



2) Would I be better off for half the price, twice the inconvience?

3) Do you think that 300-400 gallons of water tank 10 ft down would cool the water enough to be of value?

4) An issue that I'm having is that I don't want the 4-5 chillers to fed from source inline. I want the coolest water to be going to multiple chillers, and so I'm not real sure how to do the piping/where the pump goes into the mix...

Do I need to have 2nd resevoir near the lights, and split five runs from that and then return them to resevoir warm, before piping to deep hold? Seems a small thing to be tripping me up at this point...but there it is...

Also, for anyones info, these are other source of heat exhangers. I intrigued by idea of car heat exchanger for $22....I've not had great sucess in soldering copper and was hoping to do project with PVC as much as possible. Thinking of getting atleast one of these for room cooling option.


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$100 more than one conveint to fit in ducting...but 18x18 or 20x20 size.

 

[dedust]

hey guys. so what's the verdict? ac or ice boxes?

 

[RMCG]

Depends.

If you need more than 6 iceboxes, just go with a water cooled air handler and matching chiller. Traditional AC will still be cheaper.

 

[watercooled]

Depends.

If you need more than 6 iceboxes, just go with a water cooled air handler and matching chiller. Traditional AC will still be cheaper.

Agreed in most cases. An exception would be if you have access to constant cold water without using a chiller.

 

[Snow Crash]

I think TopDog said it best.

The cost of the chiller is the ridiculous part. You are essentially building an air conditioner that places the radiator right at the heat source.

The problem is that a 1hp chiller is $800 to $1200 depending on quality and the deal you get. Add in the cost of the Ice Box, the reservoir, and the pump for another $300 or so. Then the continued electrical costs at 1200w. The total of $1,500 for the same cooling effect of about a 10,000 to 12,000 btu Air Conditioner which can be had at about 1/4 the price just doesn't make much financial sense.

I think that a person could use a relatively large reservoir, maybe 50 gallons per 1000w, kept in a cool area (under 72 degrees) to manage a reasonable amount of cooling without an excessive cost for a chiller. To compensate for the residual heat I suspect about 2,000btu of AC cooling per 1000w light would be required as well.

Suppose you had a 6x1000w grow. You could use two 8" ice boxes with a 300 gallon reservoir, 8" inline fans, and a 12,000 btu Air Conditioner. The total cost of that would be around $600 and the room could be controlled effectively. Perhaps a less powerful 1/4 hp chiller could be used for a small additional cost.

Compared to a 36,000btu Air Conditioner at $1,500 or two 1hp chillers at $1,600...

You will find the best path is the Middle Road. Air conditioning has its advantages. So do Ice boxes. It's the cost of these chillers that's just so out of hand.

I think if you could get more chilling done for less cost and power then this idea will work out. As it stands right now I think duct taping a cardboard box to the front of a window AC unit and running the exhaust into that is about the same thing and a hell of a lot cheaper.

 

[RMCG]

Agreed in most cases. An exception would be if you have access to constant cold water without using a chiller.

Hell yeah, if I had a nice 50* mountain stream or unlimited/unbilled municipal water, it wouldn't even be an issue...

 

[Seed Buyer]

I have (6) 8" Ice Boxes, water cooled co2 burner, 1/2 HP pump and 2 HP chiller that I am not currently using. Anyone want to make an offer feel free to pm me. I bought the stuff last year from Hydro Innovations.

 

[RMCG]

I think TopDog said it best.

The cost of the chiller is the ridiculous part. You are essentially building an air conditioner that places the radiator right at the heat source.

The problem is that a 1hp chiller is $800 to $1200 depending on quality and the deal you get. Add in the cost of the Ice Box, the reservoir, and the pump for another $300 or so. Then the continued electrical costs at 1200w. The total of $1,500 for the same cooling effect of about a 10,000 to 12,000 btu Air Conditioner which can be had at about 1/4 the price just doesn't make much financial sense.

I think that a person could use a relatively large reservoir, maybe 50 gallons per 1000w, kept in a cool area (under 72 degrees) to manage a reasonable amount of cooling without an excessive cost for a chiller. To compensate for the residual heat I suspect about 2,000btu of AC cooling per 1000w light would be required as well.

Suppose you had a 6x1000w grow. You could use two 8" ice boxes with a 300 gallon reservoir, 8" inline fans, and a 12,000 btu Air Conditioner. The total cost of that would be around $600 and the room could be controlled effectively. Perhaps a less powerful 1/4 hp chiller could be used for a small additional cost.

Compared to a 36,000btu Air Conditioner at $1,500 or two 1hp chillers at $1,600...

You will find the best path is the Middle Road. Air conditioning has its advantages. So do Ice boxes. It's the cost of these chillers that's just so out of hand.

I think if you could get more chilling done for less cost and power then this idea will work out. As it stands right now I think duct taping a cardboard box to the front of a window AC unit and running the exhaust into that is about the same thing and a hell of a lot cheaper.

Look around, you can find REAL chillers (coming out of a building 10 - 50 T) units fairly cheaply. Pool Chillers ~4k for 80kbtu units would work too. Aquarium or those targeting gardens have quite the mark up.

I still like the idea of an air handler vs multiple iceboxes, cost wise. The IB's themselves plus tubing, fittings, etc. will add up quickly.

Marine/Boat A/C's fit the bill. The ActiveAqua line of room air handlers are ~1k vs the Chillking's for 3k.

A big ass pool with a mini evap cooler + a chiller or geothermal would rule, although big flotec pumps cost $$ to run too.


ExelAir still sells units because not everyone can have an HVAC guy come hook up their units, I think water cooling can come into play there too.

 

[U C Truth]

Let me know if you still have this available....

 

[organicfreak]

FREE WATER SOURCE IS THE TICKET!

geothermal like rmcg stated means this for you:
Basically anything under ground 5-10' depending how much sun you ground receives.. Is going to be insulated by the ground and hold the water to 55deg's +/-

So anywhere under that mark you find /store water will hold that 55 deg +/- degrees

1. lakes
2. ponds
3. creeks if deep enough and enough current lol obviously has to be cooled
4. well
5. cistern -This is a bad ass idea... you bury 1 of these 1000's of gallon plastic holding tank and then you have a fan blowing over the water thru a large heat exchanger & cool it prior to entering the cistern.
Then you have 1 pump running to the chiller-reservoir in your room or add more pump's for more chiller-reservoir's...
from these reservoir your run the pumps to your equipment, or 1 main big
chiller-reservoir and run all equipment from that
STILL CHEAPER THEN A CHILLER..

6. diy yourself chiller
a. place the inside coil of an window air conditioner in the reservoir. all electric stays out of the water.
There's also a t-stat connected to the front fin's THIS 2 needs to be added into the reservoir or a aqua-stat to control temp.

water cooling is the shit check out this guy out large heat exchanger's for 100-300$..
They have a 16x18" $200 compared to (4.5) 8" icebox 160 x 4.5= $720http://www.greenriteinnovations.com/store/heat-exchangers/water-air

I bought something like these from another place and just had a local sheet metal shop build me a box with an access to the exchanger and 2 12" collars for 60$.
I also added a ebb n flow bulk head fitting with a barbed fitting for hose on the bottom of box for condensation...

What most don't realize is with the cold water/big enough heat exchanger/big enough fan you can create your own A.C. in every room.
You could use a day/night controller from H.I. ,but I think all there shit comes from china.. and its not quality china it's I took a dump on your floor china..

Imho titan make a day/night fan controller but is heaver dutier feeling not cheap plastic like H.I.'s
also google 110v water valve's you'll find the same 1's from china h.i. is selling for $85+/-

also you can buy 100' of stainlesssteel tubing and cut it into 5 10'sections and NOW YOU HAVE 5 COOLCOILS 10$ ea. INSTEAD of h.i's 130$+/-

also check out these green house store online they have these cheap price,but quality t-stat that have a stainess steel probe with 20' extension you can place in resivior to replace H.I.'s 85+/- tstat for water...

for water cooled light's I prefer the fresca platinum's..
Barebones leak,liquid lummens are plastic..

also imho iceboxes after the light's DO COOL the air leaving the reflector's,and can cool the air with help from more exchanger,or A.c.
BUT THE REFLECTOR/BULB/GLASS stay hot!!!
you still have to keep them close to 24" away from glass???

think of it this way...
1 foot of hangers + 1 foot of reflectors + 2 feet of heat from h.i.d. + 1 foot of growing pot's ,or containers = 5 lost feet - 8 foot of ceiling = HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS LOL 3 feet of grow space..

Better way is fresca sol platinum's hung vertically.

With these platinum's you can almost leave your hand on it for hrs.. so what
6" max you have to keep your lady's away...

And if you want to grow trees double stack them and now you have 8' wall of light's

O

 

[fatboi79]

my local hydo guy has a grow tent set up in the store using those ice boxes!! as i was looking at it he walked up beside me and said this is what u need in your grow room, keeps things hella cool!!

As he walked away one of the workers walked up beside me so i asked him how good are they and he smiled and told me to look at all of the ice boxes on the floor, then he leaned over and whispered that they were all RETURNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[theTinker]

FREE WATER SOURCE IS THE TICKET!

geothermal like rmcg stated means this for you:
Basically anything under ground 5-10' depending how much sun you ground receives.. Is going to be insulated by the ground and hold the water to 55deg's +/-

So anywhere under that mark you find /store water will hold that 55 deg +/- degrees

1. lakes
2. ponds
3. creeks if deep enough and enough current lol obviously has to be cooled
4. well
5. cistern -This is a bad ass idea... you bury 1 of these 1000's of gallon plastic holding tank and then you have a fan blowing over the water thru a large heat exchanger & cool it prior to entering the cistern.
Then you have 1 pump running to the chiller-reservoir in your room or add more pump's for more chiller-reservoir's...
from these reservoir your run the pumps to your equipment, or 1 main big
chiller-reservoir and run all equipment from that
STILL CHEAPER THEN A CHILLER..

6. diy yourself chiller
a. place the inside coil of an window air conditioner in the reservoir. all electric stays out of the water.
There's also a t-stat connected to the front fin's THIS 2 needs to be added into the reservoir or a aqua-stat to control temp.

water cooling is the shit check out this guy out large heat exchanger's for 100-300$..
They have a 16x18" $200 compared to (4.5) 8" icebox 160 x 4.5= $720http://www.greenriteinnovations.com/store/heat-exchangers/water-air

I bought something like these from another place and just had a local sheet metal shop build me a box with an access to the exchanger and 2 12" collars for 60$.
I also added a ebb n flow bulk head fitting with a barbed fitting for hose on the bottom of box for condensation...

What most don't realize is with the cold water/big enough heat exchanger/big enough fan you can create your own A.C. in every room.
You could use a day/night controller from H.I. ,but I think all there shit comes from china.. and its not quality china it's I took a dump on your floor china..

Imho titan make a day/night fan controller but is heaver dutier feeling not cheap plastic like H.I.'s
also google 110v water valve's you'll find the same 1's from china h.i. is selling for $85+/-

also you can buy 100' of stainlesssteel tubing and cut it into 5 10'sections and NOW YOU HAVE 5 COOLCOILS 10$ ea. INSTEAD of h.i's 130$+/-

also check out these green house store online they have these cheap price,but quality t-stat that have a stainess steel probe with 20' extension you can place in resivior to replace H.I.'s 85+/- tstat for water...

for water cooled light's I prefer the fresca platinum's..
Barebones leak,liquid lummens are plastic..

also imho iceboxes after the light's DO COOL the air leaving the reflector's,and can cool the air with help from more exchanger,or A.c.
BUT THE REFLECTOR/BULB/GLASS stay hot!!!
you still have to keep them close to 24" away from glass???

think of it this way...
1 foot of hangers + 1 foot of reflectors + 2 feet of heat from h.i.d. + 1 foot of growing pot's ,or containers = 5 lost feet - 8 foot of ceiling = HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS LOL 3 feet of grow space..

Better way is fresca sol platinum's hung vertically.

With these platinum's you can almost leave your hand on it for hrs.. so what
6" max you have to keep your lady's away...

And if you want to grow trees double stack them and now you have 8' wall of light's

O

Thanks for the wonderful links n info

 

[water wise guy]

FREE WATER SOURCE IS THE TICKET!

geothermal like rmcg stated means this for you:
Basically anything under ground 5-10' depending how much sun you ground receives.. Is going to be insulated by the ground and hold the water to 55deg's +/-

So anywhere under that mark you find /store water will hold that 55 deg +/- degrees

1. lakes
2. ponds
3. creeks if deep enough and enough current lol obviously has to be cooled
4. well


Better way is fresca sol platinum's hung vertically.

With these platinum's you can almost leave your hand on it for hrs.. so what
6" max you have to keep your lady's away...

And if you want to grow trees double stack them and now you have 8' wall of light's

O

these things are awesome when installed correctly i have seen plants grow around the light till you couldn't see the light completely incased in leaves and branches.

if you want trees try horz. over the top and vert. on all 4 sides it will make heavy trees and doesn't take high head room. try 600 over top and 250 or 400 around the sides.

 

[water wise guy]

for water cooled light's I prefer the fresca platinum's..
Barebones leak,liquid lummens are plastic..

O

both units are made with the same seals and brass inlets now and for the last year or more.