If you have chemistry questions....

[Charliecann]

Hello Squiggly, and everyone else reading this,

I am an analytical chemist at a cannabis testing lab in Colorado. I am working on an LC/MS/MS method for the detection of pesticides in flowers and concentrates. Currently,
the regulatory agencies in states around the US are dragging their feet as to what we need to test for. I thought the best way to begin my research is to ask actual farmers and other industry personnel. If I should be asking this question in a different place please let me know. This is the first time I have been involved in a forum, so please be kind :)

My question is: What pesticides (insecticide, herbicide, rodenticide, Bactericides, Fungicides, Larvicides) do you use when growing your cannabis crop? Any and all that you use or know someone uses would be greatly appreciated. Before I can accurately quantitate residual pesticides in samples, I need to obtain reference standards for what everyone is using.

Your response is greatly appreciated.

 

[squiggly]

Hello Squiggly, and everyone else reading this,

I am an analytical chemist at a cannabis testing lab in Colorado. I am working on an LC/MS/MS method for the detection of pesticides in flowers and concentrates. Currently,
the regulatory agencies in states around the US are dragging their feet as to what we need to test for. I thought the best way to begin my research is to ask actual farmers and other industry personnel. If I should be asking this question in a different place please let me know. This is the first time I have been involved in a forum, so please be kind :)

My question is: What pesticides (insecticide, herbicide, rodenticide, Bactericides, Fungicides, Larvicides) do you use when growing your cannabis crop? Any and all that you use or know someone uses would be greatly appreciated. Before I can accurately quantitate residual pesticides in samples, I need to obtain reference standards for what everyone is using.

Your response is greatly appreciated.

Azadirachtin (AzaMax)

Bifenazate: Hydrazine carboxylic acid, 2-(4-methoxy-[1,1-biphenyl]-3-yl)
1-methylethyl ester (Floramite)

Pyrethrum (many products)

Spinosad (many products)

quinoxyfen: 5,7-dichloro-4-(p-fluorophenoxy)
quinoline (Quintec)


These are just the ones I'm aware of.

A great way to go about doing your search is to look on forums and elsewhere for advice on how to eradicate infestations common to the cannabis plant.
Some examples of common pest issues:

1. Root aphids
2. Spider mites
3. Russet mites
4. Thrips
5. Fungus gnats
6. Powdery mildew

There are many more, but these are the most common.

Most of what is used, chemically speaking, are straight up insecticides/larvicides.

Fortunately the cannabis plant doesn't suffer from a great deal of common bacterial issues, so bactericides are almost never used--nor are herbicides for obvious reasons.

To control fungus issues the general approach is to introduce beneficial fungus/bacteria to compete with it. In fact, the general trend in cannabis cultivation is moving away from pesticide use altogether--and moving more towards natural treatments a la aerated compost tea.

 

[squiggly]

Also, give me a job because I'm awesome! :)

It's great to see chemists working with cannabis, this gives me hope for my future.

 

[squiggly]

I'll keep adding stuff as I come across it Charlie.

Myclobutanil: 2-(4-Chlorophenyl)-2-(1,2,4-triazol-1-ylmethyl)hexanenitrile (Eagle 20EW) -- fungicide

 

[caregiverken]

what about Bacillus thuringiensis ?
I was just wondering what happens when you burn and inhale Bacillus thuringiensis?
Is that the same BT thats in corn?
I spray a lot of BT directly on my buds in the late summer..
.Its says in breaks down in a week.
It that true?

 

[caregiverken]

2 more more questions please Squiggly :)
Is Spinosad safer than BT?
Sqigg; What happens when you smoke dryed spinosad?

 

[squiggly]

what about Bacillus thuringiensis ?
I was just wondering what happens when you burn and inhale Bacillus thuringiensis?
Is that the same BT thats in corn?
I spray a lot of BT directly on my buds in the late summer..
.Its says in breaks down in a week.
It that true?

Bti is Bacillus thuringiensis israelnsis. It is a bacteria, not a pesticide. It is not possible to determine what exactly is going to happen when you smoke cannabis with this bacteria present. Cannabis is, itself, best described as a chemical soup, as is this bacterial strain--so we're not dealing with a known starting point for any reactions that may take place. We can make predictions, but we cannot provide answers without a lot of testing (which just isn't going to be done, frankly).

BT corn has a gene taken from Bti spliced into its genetic code which produces the Bti endotoxin (which primarily serves as an antifeedant or antilarval toxin) and it's something humans have been eating for centuries as Bti (the bacteria) is a common presence in foodcrops. The levels consumed are higher than normal in BT corn, but in general the toxin itself is safe for ingestion by humans at least so far as history and the best scientific testing we're capable of would suggest.

Spinosad is a compound based on another toxin produced by a different bacteria Saccharopolyspora spinosa. It is an insecticide that is typically produced via fermentation of this bacterial culture. It is generally considered safe for ingestion as well--as before we cannot really get a great answer for what happens when you smoke it (mixed in with cannabis, as it were) without extensive testing for which there is no funding or relative interest.

 

[caregiverken]

so, o_O There is no way of knowing?
That was no help:confused:

:depressed:

 

[caregiverken]

but the Bacteria in BT and spinosad dies after a few days and is gone?..
or the dead body remains?

 

[squiggly]

so, o_O There is no way of knowing?
That was no help:confused:

:depressed:

In general I'd say you're fine dude. It's not going to be anything worse than what you're already doing by smoking cannabis itself. The fire is more than likely going to destroy the majority--if not all--of this stuff. Fire is cool like that.

 

[squiggly]

but the Bacteria in BT and spinosad dies after a few days and is gone?..
or the dead body remains?

If you're not feeding them then yes, they will probably die--but you're still going to have spores hanging out.

Spinosad is *not* a bacteria. It is a compound extracted from fermented bacteria. It also does likely break down after some time, but I can't give you a timeframe on that without digging in and doing a bunch of research. Even then we'd be at a ballpark figure more than likely.

What I'm trying to tell you, overall, is that you can consider these products to be on the safe side. This isn't hardcore nasty pesticide we're talking about here.

 

[fishwhistle]

Also, give me a job because I'm awesome! :)

It's great to see chemists working with cannabis, this gives me hope for my future.

Charles,You would be a damn fool not to give this young man a shot,he is bright,educated and a hardworking self starter,it would be your companies loss if you didnt.

 

[Seamaiden]

Hello Squiggly, and everyone else reading this,

I am an analytical chemist at a cannabis testing lab in Colorado. I am working on an LC/MS/MS method for the detection of pesticides in flowers and concentrates. Currently,
the regulatory agencies in states around the US are dragging their feet as to what we need to test for. I thought the best way to begin my research is to ask actual farmers and other industry personnel. If I should be asking this question in a different place please let me know. This is the first time I have been involved in a forum, so please be kind :)

My question is: What pesticides (insecticide, herbicide, rodenticide, Bactericides, Fungicides, Larvicides) do you use when growing your cannabis crop? Any and all that you use or know someone uses would be greatly appreciated. Before I can accurately quantitate residual pesticides in samples, I need to obtain reference standards for what everyone is using.

Your response is greatly appreciated.

The list of 'cides' used is frightening, especially if you're familiar with the actual legal requirements for acquisition. And the list is extensive. Should we start with dichlorvos...? Um...

 

[cctt]

Abamectin is a good one to test for. It's a mixture of:
(10E,14E,16E)-(1R,4S,5′S,6S,6′R,8R,12S,13S,20R,21R,24S)-6′-[(S)-sec-butyl]-21,24-dihydroxy-5′,11,13,22-tetramethyl-2-oxo-(3,7,19-trioxatetracyclo[15.6.1.14,8.020,24]pentacosa-10,14,16,22-tetraene)-6-spiro-2′-(5′,6′-dihydro-2′H-pyran)-12-yl 2,6-dideoxy-4-O-(2,6-dideoxy-3-O-methyl-α-L-arabino-hexopyranosyl)-3-O-methyl-α-L-arabino-hexopyranoside
and
(10E,14E,16E)-(1R,4S,5′S,6S,6′R,8R,12S,13S,20R,21R,24S)-21,22-dihydroxy-6′-isopropyl-5′,11,13,22-tetramethyl-2-oxo-(3,7,19-trioxatetracyclo[15.6.1.14,8.020,24]pentacosa-10,14,16,22-tetraene)-6-spiro-2′-(5′,6′-dihydro-2′H-pyran)-12-yl 2,6-dideoxy-4-O-(2,6-dideoxy-3-O-methyl-α-L-arabino-hexopyranosyl)-3-O-methyl-α-L-arabino-hexopyranoside

And is quite bad for you.

 

[Capulator]

Abamectin is a good one to test for. It's a mixture of:
(10E,14E,16E)-(1R,4S,5′S,6S,6′R,8R,12S,13S,20R,21R,24S)-6′-[(S)-sec-butyl]-21,24-dihydroxy-5′,11,13,22-tetramethyl-2-oxo-(3,7,19-trioxatetracyclo[15.6.1.14,8.020,24]pentacosa-10,14,16,22-tetraene)-6-spiro-2′-(5′,6′-dihydro-2′H-pyran)-12-yl 2,6-dideoxy-4-O-(2,6-dideoxy-3-O-methyl-α-L-arabino-hexopyranosyl)-3-O-methyl-α-L-arabino-hexopyranoside
and
(10E,14E,16E)-(1R,4S,5′S,6S,6′R,8R,12S,13S,20R,21R,24S)-21,22-dihydroxy-6′-isopropyl-5′,11,13,22-tetramethyl-2-oxo-(3,7,19-trioxatetracyclo[15.6.1.14,8.020,24]pentacosa-10,14,16,22-tetraene)-6-spiro-2′-(5′,6′-dihydro-2′H-pyran)-12-yl 2,6-dideoxy-4-O-(2,6-dideoxy-3-O-methyl-α-L-arabino-hexopyranosyl)-3-O-methyl-α-L-arabino-hexopyranoside

And is quite bad for you.

I can't believe you just typed all that.

 

[caveman4.20]

In general I'd say you're fine dude. It's not going to be anything worse than what you're already doing by smoking cannabis itself. The fire is more than likely going to destroy the majority--if not all--of this stuff. Fire is cool like that.

Danks for all the great info as always... So when the fire destroys what might have built up in flowers it turns into something (carbon?) that isn't any more harmful then smoke in general or the heat ?

 

[cctt]

I can't believe you just typed all that.

Oh hell no. I looked it up and pasted to sound smart.

 

[squiggly]

Danks for all the great info as always... So when the fire destroys what might have built up in flowers it turns into something (carbon?) that isn't any more harmful then smoke in general or the heat ?

That's a whole other can of worms. I can't give you a reasonable prediction there.

 

[geologic]

Seems like the carbon would mostly--
stay where it is...

 

[cctt]

Seems like the carbon would mostly--
stay where it is...

I think usually fire will link available carbon with oxygen to form (mostly) CO2 gas. But... if we're talking about smoking pesticides, here, it would be a lot more prudent to take it on a case-by-case basis. I bet at least some of them can handle some heat and may have a vapor phase. Remember when you smoke anything not all of the material combusts- much is vaporized by being exposed to lesser heat before the fire reaches it.