If you have chemistry questions....

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squiggly

squiggly

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Squiggly, how many mg/L (or mM, whichever floats yer boat) of ascorbic acid would i have to add to my water to completely dechlorinate it for compost tea brewing if my water averages 0.6mg/L of chlorine?

I guess i'm looking for the minimum effective dosage here.

2.5 parts ascorbic acid to 1 part chlorinated species, or ~2.8-3 parts sodium ascorbate.

Generally 1 gram ascorbic will neutralize 1 mg per liter. So at your levels .6g of ascorbic per liter to be neutralized.

You could make up a solution to do this, but I don't see why you'd want to.
 
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papertrail

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should i be aerating my res? i am currently not, solution becomes somewhat cloudy after 3 or 4 days..

top feed/handwater 66%perlite, 33%coco
150 gal res
well water @ 180 ppm
advanced bloom a, b
100 ppm calimagic
100 ppm liquid koolbloom
bio-ag fulpower (6 c/150gal)
dripclean (55ml/150gal)
carboload powder (1/2c? 150 gal)
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
should i be aerating my res? i am currently not, solution becomes somewhat cloudy after 3 or 4 days..

top feed/handwater 66%perlite, 33%coco
150 gal res
well water @ 180 ppm
advanced bloom a, b
100 ppm calimagic
100 ppm liquid koolbloom
bio-ag fulpower (6 c/150gal)
dripclean (55ml/150gal)
carboload powder (1/2c? 150 gal)

Absolutely, yes. Oxygen is not only important for root health--but it keeps anaerobic bacteria at bay.
 
azmmjadvocates

azmmjadvocates

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should i be aerating my res? i am currently not, solution becomes somewhat cloudy after 3 or 4 days..

top feed/handwater 66%perlite, 33%coco
150 gal res
well water @ 180 ppm
advanced bloom a, b
100 ppm calimagic
100 ppm liquid koolbloom
bio-ag fulpower (6 c/150gal)
dripclean (55ml/150gal)
carboload powder (1/2c? 150 gal)
Absolutely, u need to get at least 2.1 mg/L of DO, which isn't a lot, but more is better. If your clouding and top feeding by hand, are you not doing DTW (drain to waste)? You may also have a ph problem if that is the case, if you are dumping the runoff back into the rez (recirculating) it's even more important to get some good movement in you tank.

Here's a tip if your hand feeding which IMO is a good means of getting DO to your roots manually. First run off and waste a little as a flush, not much. Then feed as normal, recapture the full feed as it exits, Adjust ph again, then dump it back through a second time like a waterfall effect, that way it will give it more DO it picks up from increasing Surface exposure of the water to air as it pours and falls, the plant roost strip the DO very fast, so the second or 3rd run if you wish just keeps it coming. I have a theory as well that when you put your nutrient solution into a closed container and shake it vigorously and feed right away it supercharges the DO, however it loses the charge quickly so you have to feed it fast.

Squiggly can correct me if he is into any DO research but, but you can see highly charged DO is cloudy in a clear container, and you can also see how fast it dissipates like magic.
 
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papertrail

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not doing recirc, or dtw really. im using the dripclean so i dont have to have the runoff. its just a 150 gal res, which i pump nutes into 5 gal bucket, and feed by hand w/ 44 oz cup. 150 gal is lasting about 7 days,.but the solution gets cloudy around day 4. will be doing drippers nxt run after i have some cash.

i have some airpumps and stones packed away. i'll throw some in the res now that you guys confirmed
 
azmmjadvocates

azmmjadvocates

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Squiggly, how many mg/L (or mM, whichever floats yer boat) of ascorbic acid would i have to add to my water to completely dechlorinate it for compost tea brewing if my water averages 0.6mg/L of chlorine?

I guess i'm looking for the minimum effective dosage here.
Hmm, so would the anti oxydizing properties of Ascorbic acid be beneficial to bennies? The Ascorbic acid has to be heated as well to dissipate it from what I recall, IDK may be wrong, but if so would it stack up on your medium if you were to use it more than once? Why not just use H2o2 to dissipate the Chlorine, do you already have some bennies to protect from the h202 slaughter?

BTW I really like your contributions, gets me thinking. I've been working on the first part of that Fatman thread, may have it ready tonight or tomorrow..
 
dizzlekush

dizzlekush

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2.5 parts ascorbic acid to 1 part chlorinated species, or ~2.8-3 parts sodium ascorbate.

Generally 1 gram ascorbic will neutralize 1 mg per liter. So at your levels .6g of ascorbic per liter to be neutralized.

You could make up a solution to do this, but I don't see why you'd want to.

Sorry for being dense squiggly but i guess i don't understand what you're saying. first you say 2.5 parts (moles or mg?) ascorbic acid to one part chlorinated species, then you suggest 1,000 parts to one part (1 gram to neutralize 1mg)... Can you please clarify for me?

Both of these links lead me to believe that i could add 1.5 mg/L to purge my 0.6mg/L chlorine levels. am i incorrect in this assumption?
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:YbspruvxyuQJ:www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/pdf/05231301.pdf &hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjC4pS83DW40fpfzVA5Pphhw1gbGiBl4tAlHgNYDNs4yp9EnQkHx2IuYBSD5kHehN0m0KgKjfCJrbM-0ai1kC-K94X34JOt2q4LOzxlOJx2uTBjm0YExpyh3gnm6FLxh1v-8-RG&sig=AHIEtbROWlDHg1vnNzHH83M3sECuUcjyvA
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:b6yrGXC393cJ:www.rjmcompany.com/Dechlorination%20with%20Vitamin%20C.pdf &hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShmWdQHTAKZo5BzPIDiOVYBZ6QxLiDxo1m2hYg_1PG60FvZxT6Kv8Txm8zvrlgvi6wjwBeBcaWCKzhK5nZDU-NDzJefOlbBYtr_xnmTmhSAXyrHnDHUizckvT4o5Dt7lfT98XmC&sig=AHIEtbSES6qGRTirOPzxUcXVkMA0-PKz7w

one even mentions the 2.5 parts ascorbic acid to one part chlorinated species as you mention

Hmm, so would the anti oxydizing properties of Ascorbic acid be beneficial to bennies? The Ascorbic acid has to be heated as well to dissipate it from what I recall, IDK may be wrong, but if so would it stack up on your medium if you were to use it more than once? Why not just use H2o2 to dissipate the Chlorine, do you already have some bennies to protect from the h202 slaughter?

BTW I really like your contributions, gets me thinking. I've been working on the first part of that Fatman thread, may have it ready tonight or tomorrow..

I have no idea how exogenous ascorbate would effect microbial density/diversity, i would assume studies have been done on such a matter but I've never actually looked for such studies.

I was not aware, nor have i ever heard that heat is needed for ascorbate to purge chlorine species. i would imagine that greater temperature allows for a faster purge, but given adequate reaction time (should be pretty damn fast) and ascorbate levels, chlorine should be purged regardless of temperature. squiggly can you confirm or deny?

Honestly ive never considered H2O2 because of the increased price and the fact that adding one antimicrobial to the solution to get rid of another antimicrobial when you're trying to propagate microbes seems kinda counter-intuitive. any leftover H2O2 from the purge will damage microbial density/diversity much more than any leftover ascorbate.

Exited for the fatty thread. I feel that i must have only read his lesser stuff since so many people have a high opinion of him and literally EVERYTHING i have seen him say about optimal environmental factors has been completely wrong (e.g. >89F temps 24/7, >1200ppm CO2, >2.0 kPa, bullshit 200w bulbs 2" away from canopy etc.)
 
azmmjadvocates

azmmjadvocates

442
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I was not aware, nor have i ever heard that heat is needed for ascorbate to purge chlorine species. i would imagine that greater temperature allows for a faster purge, but given adequate reaction time (should be pretty damn fast) and ascorbate levels, chlorine should be purged regardless of temperature. squiggly can you confirm or deny? No I was referring to dissipating the vitamin C.

Honestly ive never considered H2O2 because of the increased price and the fact that adding one antimicrobial to the solution to get rid of another antimicrobial when you're trying to propagate microbes seems kinda counter-intuitive. any leftover H2O2 from the purge will damage microbial density/diversity much more than any leftover ascorbate.
H202 quickly dissipates to purified water.


Of the thousands of posts fatman has made, I'm surprised you haven't stumbled across them.
 
dizzlekush

dizzlekush

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H202 quickly dissipates to purified water.


Of the thousands of posts fatman has made, I'm surprised you haven't stumbled across them.
meh, not that quickly. As i understand it, H2O2 can easily stay in solution for 24+ hours in cool water, which is what i brew my tea in. i can brew in ascorbic treated water 5-10 minutes after treatment at a cheaper price compared to waiting for 24+ hours and greater cost.

thousands eh? wasn't aware he posted so much. I have no interest in hydro/aeroponics since IMO it takes entirely too much time and effort for results that aren't much improved compared to a properly done soilless medium. Since i know that fatty preaches incorrect teachings like they're gospel, I have no interest in his actual forte, and since he's a shallow a$*hole with a superiority complex who thinks he's better than everyone who smokes weed but cant even talk in a civilized enough manner to not get exiled from every social network he joins, i never tried too hard to find his posts.

Im looking forward to seeing if i've misjudged his worth, though. Im always looking to learn more about horticulture and unfortunately the more thoroughly one researches a subject, the harder it becomes to find others who can teach you much about it.
 
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bundenburg

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hey, i have RO water in a res and the ph has rised to 7.5 from 6, is it ok or should i dump it and refill? im concered cause the plants are only 3cm and i got the water from a fish tank but diddnt ask about DI or not. also, what do i do to get the ph down and when hsould i be adding neuts? cheers
 
azmmjadvocates

azmmjadvocates

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meh, not that quickly. As i understand it, H2O2 can easily stay in solution for 24+ hours in cool water, which is what i brew my tea in. i can brew in ascorbic treated water 5-10 minutes after treatment at a cheaper price compared to waiting for 24+ hours and greater cost.

thousands eh? wasn't aware he posted so much. I have no interest in hydro/aeroponics since IMO it takes entirely too much time and effort for results that aren't much improved compared to a properly done soilless medium. Since i know that fatty preaches incorrect teachings like they're gospel, I have no interest in his actual forte, and since he's a shallow a$*hole with a superiority complex who thinks he's better than everyone who smokes weed but cant even talk in a civilized enough manner to not get exiled from every social network he joins, i never tried too hard to find his posts.

Im looking forward to seeing if i've misjudged his worth, though. Im always looking to learn more about horticulture and unfortunately the more thoroughly one researches a subject, the harder it becomes to find others who can teach you much about it.
Huh didn't know that about the H202, I thought it breaks down extremely fast, huh not even in UV exposure, I though it was like 4 minutes. That makes sense about the vitamin C if it breaks down so fast and is effective. As for fatman his methods certainly don't jive with streight organics in a rez, in home anyway. He has made comments that using bennies with DTW is much better a choice than recericulating. Do you think they may be cracking down at all since the deaths from organic farming and cross contaminations? It's those growers who don't know what and the hell they are doing that is a big problem.

For me I research everything he has to say against university research or equivalent of which I'll cite when I put up that post. And I may have miss spoke about his lights so close to the plant, he does use small lights but distance I haven't located yet. I think the biggest thing is not to parcel out one thing he states but to look at how they all interact which has helped me to come up with a great system for my particular needs, and that is what it is all about IMHO, to each his own, you cant apply one particular thing such as 90 degrees 40 RH like I do or you will toast your plants. Same here I cant take your nutes at the EC I imagine u run at and run them in my system or my plants will die.

One thing i'm not about and that is trying to tell people I have the best system, it's the best for me with my limitations i'm stuck with, and it's the best for me because i've taken solid principles, applied them to manipulate the plants and environment as well as modified my recerculating system.. Fatman would likely call that a bastardization, but it really is, that's no skin off my back. He advocates and acknowledges they are the majority of systems, believe it or not. I basically have two or 3 systems interchangeable that I call hot rodding, that reduce some of the flaws that recirculating has. But again for someone else to do the same they have to get their head around the whole enchilada of principles, because it's all enter related.

His system he can run full tilt all the time, mine I have to dial it in and keep an eye on things, take the girls to the races t the races so to speak. But then when I have things to do, a couple changes of hoses, turn on a fan, lower the temp, dial the light and whala, they go on the default system.
 
azmmjadvocates

azmmjadvocates

442
43
hey, i have RO water in a res and the ph has rised to 7.5 from 6, is it ok or should i dump it and refill? im concered cause the plants are only 3cm and i got the water from a fish tank but diddnt ask about DI or not. also, what do i do to get the ph down and when hsould i be adding neuts? cheers
That question would likely be best answered by someone who is into organics, but if you feel your nutrient soulution is ballanced, fresh, and safe, then no don't dump it, ph it down to 5.7. From what I know, and im no expert in fish emulshion, it's high in Nitrogen, so perhaps citric acid would be your best bet. You can pick it up from wallly mart in the canning section, the bottle says CITRIC ACID and it's by Ball. But you likely have other problems you need some help with and there are a bunch of folks here to help..

Hope that helps.
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
I mean you're going to expect the pH to swing up some--but to me 7.5 seems a bit outlandish. I'd dump it, you might have some anaerobic bacteria going in there. Whats your bubble production like?
 
azmmjadvocates

azmmjadvocates

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BTW Good luck on those finals Squiggly, I got a feeling your going to ace them..
 
azmmjadvocates

azmmjadvocates

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Awww man that sucks, I guess we will be seeing you much less??? I hope you can rob other areas of your life to keep us on our toes here. Well there is always next semester..
 
pork

pork

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got my hands on a RO filter and my issues from a few pages back have cleared up...turns out my well water has a shit ton of calcium in it and adding more (through CalNit) wasn't really working...
 
squiggly

squiggly

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263
got my hands on a RO filter and my issues from a few pages back have cleared up...turns out my well water has a shit ton of calcium in it and adding more (through CalNit) wasn't really working...

Was this the problem with precipitation of salts?

I knew that calcium was to blame--its one of the most likely culprits any time you're getting precipitation (as not many calcium salts are soluble).
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
What is your take on phosphorus pentoxide? I posted on the bloomtastic thread, I think it's just a gimic ingredient basically a super concentrated phosporic acid right? I don't know the ppm's but I't doesn't look as nearly as safe as what we can make, have you heard any rumors of adulteration of the bloombastic?


http://phosphoruspentoxide.net/index.html

http://phosphoruspentoxide.net/phosphorus_pentoxide_msds.html

It is nothing but anhydrous phosphoric acid. It reacts violently with water, and can cause SEVERE chemical burns. Particulate matter can destroy mucous membranes including your mouth, sinuses, esophagus, wind pipe, and eyes.

It's nothing I would recommend that any farmer use for any reason. It's just not safe without proper training. Phosphoric acid is bad enough by itself, just stick to that.
 
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