Im Sticking To Hps For The Win, Not Mars Led

[UncleRomulus]

I’m moving to coco but feeling leery about going full on hydro. I m starting to like the idea of it tho

 

[Jmaes Mabley]

Kinda. Passive.

We grow large plants in 20 gallon containers of Promix BX, Chem Grow Fert. We veg in 5 gallon and 1000w for around 60-70 days.

We usually take cuts right before a flowering cycle is started on whatever strain, and then root it, and veg it in the amount of time it takes the others to flower, so when the first are done, its time to put the new 1s in. Repeat.

 

[jumpincactus]

Alrighty then

lol :smoking:

 

[UncleRomulus]

Wow man. Those are some big plants. Just curious why you go about it that way? I used to like big plants but am getting more into many lil ones scrog style. I’m not hating on your methods at all just curious. Are there plant restrictions you are trying to abide by?

 

[Jmaes Mabley]

We Bend, and Train our plants to grow Horizontally so all of the secondary shoots grow Vertically, become mains, and Height becomes much less of an issue, though we can get some plants 7+ feet long. Especially if you mercilessly bombard them with light, and a ton of medium from the start.

Main reason Im against Topping is that it gets rid of the Main Meristem, and for every couple inches ect, I keep getting 2 brand new Mains/Internodes. When you cut the tip, this is gone. If can be made up for, but you have to Veg Longer, which violates Rule #1.

I can also manipulate the crap out of the growing tip, and all but stop the vertical growth, but you have to mess with it 3-4 times a day, everyday for a week, or so, but it does the same thing as topping, but still allows for the growing tip.

We also Shake, and bend the branches of each plant, and have several fans going 24/7 even when Lights Out. Theres always a breeze, and fresh air exchange. Always.
Main thing is you have to use a strain that has strong side branching from the start, and we also prefer plants that stretch like a MoFo when flipped. 2x-5x
Our first rule is that when 1st tested, a single plant has to be able to produce 1lb+ in 20 gallons soil within 120 days from seed, with with No Training, and if it cant, we cant use it.

Heres a photo of a Kosher Kush Secondary that was 53 grams trimmed/dried. This is 1 of many from a single plant. This 1 plant got 24oz. Its on my guitar case so its fairly long, but not above average. Buddy also gave me this, and kept the bigger stuff. I gave him the seeds.
Im in fucked up state, and Ive also been had for 1000 clones/feds before-97-2009 worth...., so I possess nothing, but do some collusion.:opps:

 

[goingtoguano]

I can also manipulate the crap out of the growing tip, and all but stop the vertical growth, but you have to mess with it 3-4 times a day, everyday for a week, or so, but it does the same thing as topping, but still allows for the growing tip.

Hey @Jmaes Mabley ,
Could you please expand on what "manipulate the crap out of the growing tip" entails? I am assuming that you are tying or holding it down somehow (trellis netting?) Thanks.

 

[1diesel1]

View attachment 828289 We Bend, and Train our plants to grow Horizontally so all of the secondary shoots grow Vertically, become mains, and Height becomes much less of an issue, though we can get some plants 7+ feet long. Especially if you mercilessly bombard them with light, and a ton of medium from the start.

Main reason Im against Topping is that it gets rid of the Main Meristem, and for every couple inches ect, I keep getting 2 brand new Mains/Internodes. When you cut the tip, this is gone. If can be made up for, but you have to Veg Longer, which violates Rule #1.

I can also manipulate the crap out of the growing tip, and all but stop the vertical growth, but you have to mess with it 3-4 times a day, everyday for a week, or so, but it does the same thing as topping, but still allows for the growing tip.

We also Shake, and bend the branches of each plant, and have several fans going 24/7 even when Lights Out. Theres always a breeze, and fresh air exchange. Always.
Main thing is you have to use a strain that has strong side branching from the start, and we also prefer plants that stretch like a MoFo when flipped. 2x-5x
Our first rule is that when 1st tested, a single plant has to be able to produce 1lb+ in 20 gallons soil within 120 days from seed, with with No Training, and if it cant, we cant use it.

Heres a photo of a Kosher Kush Secondary that was 53 grams trimmed/dried. This is 1 of many from a single plant. This 1 plant got 24oz. Its on my guitar case so its fairly long, but not above average. Buddy also gave me this, and kept the bigger stuff. I gave him the seeds.
Im in fucked up state, and Ive also been had for 1000 clones/feds before-97-2009 worth...., so I possess nothing, but do some collusion.:opps:

I like it. Just my style. I flower In 25g pots and go big indoor. 5-7 foot plants in flower. Not pulling weight like that yet but I’m working on improving and learning. Running 2 gavitas at 1150w and 4 350w ceramic halids rotating crops through out flowering.

 

[UncleRomulus]

You sound like my kinda guy, Mabley. Bloody feds. You are an America hero bud

 

[Jmaes Mabley]

Hey @Jmaes Mabley ,
Could you please expand on what "manipulate the crap out of the growing tip" entails? I am assuming that you are tying or holding it down somehow (trellis netting?) Thanks.

By BENDING it constantly. Back, and Forth, Back, and Forth. The first few nodes. But considering Im trying to get them as large as possible, I don't muck with the tip, but I would if I wanted to slow Upward growth.

I start Bending/training them from very early on, as soon as they are rooted, and growing, and you can use any method you want to secure the plant. At first it will need no assistance and the stress will only make the main stalk stronger. But I always allow for the growing tip to keep doing its thing.
Say a plant is 10 inches tall, rooted, and growing. Seedling, or not.

From the top, I will go down 20% and start my training there, leaving the top 20% alone, EXCEPT

Physically Manipulate the Secondary Branches AROUND THE MAIN STALK to grow Vertically/UP, but after they get going, this is not longer necessary, as they will grow like this on their own, and all you will have to do is keep the growing top 20% under control, and not letting it get to tall/Horizontal.. Or you can wire it down every 8 inches, and grow like grapes, and just let 5 -10 inches of the very top do its thing. I try and not mess with the top much, except to manipulate the branches/secondaries as described before.

I also Do Not take of ANY of the Lowest Branches, except for clones. Any good plant should have strong Lower/LOWEST Secondary Growth, or we wont use it.

In a nice Christmas Tree structured plant, the very lowest secondaries can catch up with, or get very close to catching up to the Growing Tip even with NO TRAINING. Strong Light from the Start will also bring this out very early on for strains with this potential.
If you get a plant like this, and then bend it, it has huge potential for yield. Especially if the internode spacing is very compact.

My buddy has a Swami Blue Orca x 85 RKS/Michoacán that has the closest internode spacing on a more Sativa Dom plant Ive ever seen. Its also got shoots, coming off of shoots.

At 4 feet tall outside, not the strongest light, and no training, the plant has over 30 internode spacings, and is around 20 days flowering, and still stretching. The secondary branching at the bottom is typical Christmas Tree.

Were going to try and rejuve it by bringing it inside if it turns out to be potent enough, of which it already smells killer.
Will also try and revive a Coastal Seeds Puck Yeah, THSeeds HOG, and a Bodhi Goji OG.

I do believe the Puck Yeah, and HOG are best in Sea of Green, and were not above doing many smaller plants, its just much easier to do large plants.
The Puck, and HOG have HUGE Central Colas. At 4/sq/ft, 3 gallon containers Im sure they would pull 2lbs a light, in the right conditions.

The LOWEST Secondaries can become HUGE COLAS. If you cut of 3-5+ Lower Sites, that kills 10 COLAS if you trim off 5 LOWER sites. That's a potential 5oz easy. 1/2 OZ per site/node.

 

[Jmaes Mabley]

Also consider this.

If 1 uses say a 1000w Gavita.

The light will only penetrat a good 3.5 feet, 4 at best, and if the plant is 7 feet tall, the light on the lowest branches are compromised greatly. They are not even getting Half the light as the 1st 50% of the plant. Inverse Square Law.

If they are Bent Horizontally, every branch gets maximum light, and completely takes the height issue out of the equation. There are No Lower Branches, on a Horizontally Grown Plant. ALL Branches become Mains, and the lights give maximum penetration.

 

[goingtoguano]

Wow, That’s a lot to take in. Much appreciated!

 

[1diesel1]

Also consider this.

If 1 uses say a 1000w Gavita.

The light will only penetrat a good 3.5 feet, 4 at best, and if the plant is 7 feet tall, the light on the lowest branches are compromised greatly. They are not even getting Half the light as the 1st 50% of the plant. Inverse Square Law.

If they are Bent Horizontally, every branch gets maximum light, and completely takes the height issue out of the equation. There are No Lower Branches, on a Horizontally Grown Plant. ALL Branches become Mains, and the lights give maximum penetration.

Thanks for the info. I appreciate your knowledge. Building my next grow room now. I will definitely facilitate your advice in my next grow!

 

[Jmaes Mabley]

Keep It Simple.

The basic guides I use are.

GREAT AIRFLOW
Lots of light
Don't Over Feed/Water.
Lots of Medium

That's it. Veer off this and results will go accordingly.

I also like to use a cheap, MOISTURE METER/LOWES... I never let the Needle get to the LOW MOIST LINE. Always just slightly above, and then water again. And not over drench a smaller plant. You cant drench a smaller plant in a large container. Give more as you go along.
I usually start with 10% of recommended dose/5 gallons water of food/seedlings, water each time, and increase a bit over the weeks. No More than 30% recommended dose for large plants, in 5 gallons water, and feed at each watering. Adjust if needed. Up, or down. The least amount with no deficiencies is the best route. But also don't short change them.

Also.

They need all of the fresh air they can get.

Did I mention Airflow???

I cant relay how important airflow is.

 

[SoLowDolo]

Keep It Simple.

The basic guides I use are.

GREAT AIRFLOW
Lots of light
Don't Over Feed/Water.
Lots of Medium

That's it. Veer off this and results will go accordingly.

I also like to use a cheap, MOISTURE METER/LOWES... I never let the Needle get to the LOW MOIST LINE. Always just slightly above, and then water again. And not over drench a smaller plant. You cant drench a smaller plant in a large container. Give more as you go along.
I usually start with 10% of recommended dose/5 gallons water of food/seedlings, water each time, and increase a bit over the weeks. No More than 30% recommended dose for large plants, in 5 gallons water, and feed at each watering. Adjust if needed. Up, or down. The least amount with no deficiencies is the best route. But also don't short change them.

Also.

They need all of the fresh air they can get.

Did I mention Airflow???

I cant relay how important airflow is.

Thanks for dropping all this knowledge on us. I'm learning a lot bro. I'm on my first grow, but I feel good about what I'm doing cuz I got some badass airflow going on! LOL. For real tho, thanks man. I like to learn everybody's different techniques and apply some of it to my own grow.

 

[1diesel1]

Keep It Simple.

The basic guides I use are.

GREAT AIRFLOW
Lots of light
Don't Over Feed/Water.
Lots of Medium

That's it. Veer off this and results will go accordingly.

I also like to use a cheap, MOISTURE METER/LOWES... I never let the Needle get to the LOW MOIST LINE. Always just slightly above, and then water again. And not over drench a smaller plant. You cant drench a smaller plant in a large container. Give more as you go along.
I usually start with 10% of recommended dose/5 gallons water of food/seedlings, water each time, and increase a bit over the weeks. No More than 30% recommended dose for large plants, in 5 gallons water, and feed at each watering. Adjust if needed. Up, or down. The least amount with no deficiencies is the best route. But also don't short change them.

Also.

They need all of the fresh air they can get.

Did I mention Airflow???

I cant relay how important airflow is.

I usually run 4 wall mounted fans on each wall also air tite rooms with co2.
Fans on during all cycles of growth.

 

[Jmaes Mabley]

Unless the room is 100% Airtight, CO2 is a waste, and fans moving air in the room, isn't Airflow/Exchange. That's just moving around stale air. If you use CO2, you must exchange XX amount of times per hour, and also be able to Exhaust old ir, and still keep it 10000% AIRTIGHT.

Co2 goes to the area of least resistance, and even a pnhole will defeat the purpose. Not saying CO2 doesn't work either.

Only the enclosure has to be 100% Airtight, and you also must be able to exhause/Exchange Fresh Sair, and Exhause Old Air.

Also remember this.
Plants require CO2/when Lights are On, and give off Oxygen/Transpiration, but they require Oxygen when Lights Out, and Give Off/ CO2/Respiration.

So fresh air exchange constantly is how we do it. It doesn't take a lot, but has to be always fresh.

 

[Rootbound]

Just ordered a 1000 watt hps with cool tube. Going to use the btu s to heat my house and be able to keep my space nice and cool. I live where it’s very cold and my 1500 watt heater runs most of the time on the coldest days. Won’t have to run much now. To each there own. I’m allowed to still love hid lol. I do currently use a few led bulbs with the globe popped in my veg tho ✌

Nothing wrong with HID, I still use my gavita for a couple months in the winter for that very reason when we are running the wood burner:)

 

[1diesel1]

Unless the room is 100% Airtight, CO2 is a waste, and fans moving air in the room, isn't Airflow/Exchange. That's just moving around stale air. If you use CO2, you must exchange XX amount of times per hour, and also be able to Exhaust old ir, and still keep it 10000% AIRTIGHT.

Co2 goes to the area of least resistance, and even a pnhole will defeat the purpose. Not saying CO2 doesn't work either.

Only the enclosure has to be 100% Airtight, and you also must be able to exhause/Exchange Fresh Sair, and Exhause Old Air.

Also remember this.
Plants require CO2/when Lights are On, and give off Oxygen/Transpiration, but they require Oxygen when Lights Out, and Give Off/ CO2/Respiration.

So fresh air exchange constantly is how we do it. It doesn't take a lot, but has to be always fresh.

I’m installing a 4 ton carrier package unit for cooling. Would you suggest installing an economizer for fresh air intake. I am also installing TPO fully adhered to the floors walls and ceiling. The laps on the material are welded. Basically when I’m done ive built a swimming pool.

 

[Jmaes Mabley]

Yep, I would install the fresh air intake. Yep. Great Idea. Id make it as powerful as possible. No such thing as to much fresh air. Really no need for CO2 if you have a constant air supply. Then Id use fans to move it all around.

I believe they say it takes minimum 8000 btu to cool 1 x 1000w HID, and probably 15%-20% more for a DE 1000w+ Gavita.

We try and not let the temps go above 84 degrees, but in our situation that's often not possible in summer. When its 60s in the daytime, that's the beginnings of better temps for us. Usually Late Sept-early May are best for us, as we are really primitive, and use little atmospheric control, other than getting all the air possible to them. Of course our way could be maximized, but it is what it is.

Also the ##s I said are in the best times of the year. It goes down considerably in late Spring-Late Summer, but weve been doing this since 1978. Inside. Me and another buddy since 84 on and off. The other buddy on his own constantly since 77. Probably 1300+ Indoor grows.
Theyre also Both LAZY and large plants are no work.

 

[Thejoeybrown]

I completely disagree about he CO2. Fresh air even if it exchanged as fast as it comes in will only be what? 300-500 ppm co2? Supplement co2 will be 1200-1500 whatever you choose. And the room doesn’t have to be sealed 100% but you will be wasting co2. But if the controller is set to 1500 it’s gonna keep it 1500 ppm. Just dep nds how much co2 you’re going to need to use to keep it there. The plants definitely use that extra 1000 ppm.
Also there is no reason to exchange the air. It’s a myth. If the co2 levels are kept up and the environment is dialed you don’t ever have to exchange air. Most people just don’t have a dialed in grow and they add co2 thinking it will get them big yields and all it does magnify they existing problems they haven’t addressed