Irie Seeds "Orange Gasm" under Gavita Pro 1700e LED's..........

[Dr.Green55]

Yes Photosynthesis makes sugars, but its really a little more then that it also requires water, carbon dioxide, etc etc , so for every photosynthesizing leave removed its not only creating a negative on sugar due to the abundant of new growth, but on water evaporation, carbon dioxide etc etc everything those leaves do, its a chain reaction. And don't underestimate how much sugar new growth requires, and thats what I'm saying I think one would have to very strategically remove leave, because I think that the balance would be very thin.

 

[sshz]

Or how about Ethos "Member Berry" at the end of 5 weeks..........

 

[sshz]

Or Zsweet Inzanity at 5 weeks..........

 

[sshz]

Or Oni Seeds Papaya Punch at day 41.......

 

[Aqua Man]

Yes Photosynthesis makes sugars, but its really a little more then that it also requires water, carbon dioxide, etc etc , so for every photosynthesizing leave removed its not only creating a negative on sugar due to the abundant of new growth, but on water evaporation, carbon dioxide etc etc everything those leaves do, its a chain reaction. And don't underestimate how much sugar new growth requires, and thats what I'm saying I think one would have to very strategically remove leave, because I think that the balance would be very thin.

Oh I absolutely agree. I just think that if you are removing leaves that will not reduce the overall photosynthesis then it's beneficial in reducing the overall consumption of sugar but not the overall photosynthesis if that makes sense. I say this because leaves not get light are not performing to the benefit to the plant.

My opinion only. Since only leaves photosynthesizing are taking advantage of CO2 bit do transpire more but I think that balances itself because while transpiration is reduce and there for nutrient and water uptake so is the demand for it.

 

[Dr.Green55]

I do not have a refratometer, I'm curious how much they are- I'll have to check one out on Amazon.

Rasta Jeff said you only want to remove leaves that are unhealthy (yellowing), or blocking a bud underneath. And of course the 1/3 lollipopping at the bottom of the plant. Leave everything else.

Tonight I went back into the room and actually removed more from the first side I did yesterday. Stand at a different angle in the grow and you see things you missed the first time.

The one thing I do miss seeing is those big, center cola's packing on the weight. But I'm thinking in 2-3 weeks, there's going to be a sea of nice colas.

I saw a few fungus gnats buzzing around tonight too. Even after 2 applications of the masquito bits, a few still manage to show up. I'll put up some yellow sticky traps tomorrow around the room to catch them.

I also wanted to show my old room under two 1000 watt HPS with Ethos Genetics "Apex" strain at 5 weeks, the exact same period as my current grow............ quite a difference between the two.

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There pretty cheap on amazon 20-30 buck probably, and like I say I don't know if the sugar levels are an issue, But I think you said a page or 2 back that you though there should be a little more bud growth, So I'm just saying I think it would be very interesting to see where sugar levels are at, I like 12% min.

 

[Aqua Man]

@sshz is there a difference in flower time or general yield between the strains? Those look great

 

[sshz]

Or Sweet Zombie at 5 weeks.........

 

[Aqua Man]

This is my first grow doing a much larger defoliation. So I can't speak from experience but rather just a guess on my understanding. Usually I remove the bottom crap and only for decent airflow. I haven't made up my mind yet as to which is the most beneficial.

 

[sshz]

Yes, each strain is different........I tend to grow heavy yielders, so most of those are- a few weren't. My point with the pic's is I just don't see how my current plants can compete with the other room under 2 HPS. Comparing the two side by side at 5 weeks, to me it seems doubtful the LED's room can compete. I may still be wrong, but I just don't see it. I think all those strains other than 1 gave me 2 lbs. a light.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yes Photosynthesis makes sugars, but its really a little more then that it also requires water, carbon dioxide, etc etc , so for every photosynthesizing leave removed its not only creating a negative on sugar due to the abundant of new growth, but on water evaporation, carbon dioxide etc etc everything those leaves do, its a chain reaction. And don't underestimate how much sugar new growth requires, and thats what I'm saying I think one would have to very strategically remove leave, because I think that the balance would be very thin.

I should probably be a bit more clear. As long as you have the entire footprint of the grow with leaves photosynthesizing I feel you are reaching max photosynthesis. If you remove leaves that reduce that then yes I see it as negative but if you strategicly remove them so that the leaves under are photosynthesizing then I would feel that net photosynthesis stays the same but is more evenly distributed.

Again just throwing thoughts out there for discussion

 

[Dr.Green55]

Yes, each strain is different........I tend to grow heavy yielders, so most of those are- a few weren't. My point with the pic's is I just don't see how my current plants can compete with the other room under 2 HPS. Comparing the two side by side at 5 weeks, to me it seems doubtful the LED's room can compete. I may still be wrong, but I just don't see it. I think all those strains other than 1 gave me 2 lbs. a light.

And from seeing your other grows to this one I agree I don't see them competing with your 2 HPS and thas why I brought up the LED, photosynthesis sugar thing because thast the first thing I'd want to know. I could be completely wrong but it where i'd start

 

[sshz]

At this point I'm thinking I'd be a lot further along with a solid dosing of CO2........the Exhale bags probably aren't cutting it. If I can get to 2 lbs a light the way I'm going, I won't add it. If I fall short, then I'll probably add a tank for the next grow.

 

[Dr.Green55]

I should probably be a bit more clear. As long as you have the entire footprint of the grow with leaves photosynthesizing I feel you are reaching max photosynthesis. If you remove leaves that reduce that then yes I see it as negative but if you strategicly remove them so that the leaves under are photosynthesizing then I would feel that net photosynthesis stays the same but is more evenly distributed.

Again just throwing thoughts out there for discussion

generally I agree with what your saying, and your right there is only so much photosynthesizing to get. but the reason I bring it up, is because have I seen in the past under HPS light that short plants with a lot of leaves and leaf growth can be very finicky when it comes to defoliation, I had plants that I could not remove more then a hand full of bigger leaves or it caused sugar issues, there are so many factors including light intensity, the bigger leaves on top I hardly ever remove they are the heavy lifters, and for every upper leaf i remove for a lower leaf i'm only losing light intensity to it. I personally defoliate per plant on how its structure is, short tight leafs or tall more spacing , fat vs thin leaves growth rate of new foliage or even overall amount of leaves, the only reason i ever started defoliating was to see how it effected sap levels in the leaves. something to play with I guess lol

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah I can definitely see the difference. I have to say I was wondering about the amount of blue for exactly that reason. Very leafy growth but also blue regulates stomatal opening so maybe? Better use of co2. Possibly part of the reason they say you need co2 with these lights?

I'm gonna put this out there as I have given it a lot of thought over the past few months. And again pure speculation.

I feel like I have a hard time under my 3000k led making pretty plants in veg. It tends to make less leafy plants and just overall crappy looking veg. But I feel the spectrum really grows bigger roots and shoots which boosts my harvests. I have done a lot of reading on how spectrum affects growth and more than one study showed increased overall root growth with a red leaning spectrum this also included larger flower dry weight when compared to a more blue leaning spectrum.

And partly why I'm trying to pay close attention to the grow.

I feel that a red leaning spectrum increases root growth right from the get go and sure plants are not nearly as pretty but if roots shoots and dry weight of flower are my goals I'm good with that.

Blue leaning spectrum from my understanding will not only produce more leaves but also the surface area of those leaves.

There is a lot more to my madness but that's the basic gist of it. I kinda feel like the lights are marketing toward pretty plants for all the instagram growers etc. Since that's how many ppl judge grows. But I can't help but feel like a more red leaning spectrum from the start has an effect on the yields. Call me crazy but there i put it out there and by no means an I claiming I'm right, it's something I'm trying to figure out.

 

[Aqua Man]

generally I agree with what your saying, and your right there is only so much photosynthesizing to get. but the reason I bring it up, is because have I seen in the past under HPS light that short plants with a lot of leaves and leaf growth can be very finicky when it comes to defoliation, I had plants that I could not remove more then a hand full of bigger leaves or it caused sugar issues, there are so many factors including light intensity, the bigger leaves on top I hardly ever remove they are the heavy lifters, and for every upper leaf i remove for a lower leaf i'm only losing light intensity to it. I personally defoliate per plant on how its structure is, short tight leafs or tall more spacing , fat vs thin leaves growth rate of new foliage or even overall amount of leaves, the only reason i ever started defoliating was to see how it effected sap levels in the leaves. something to play with I guess lol

Definitely strain specific. I think the really leafy strains would (if any) see more benefit than the ones that are not as leaf heavy. I feel like most things it's not something that can be generalized as beneficial or bad. Lol never an easy answer but thats what keeps it interesting

 

[Dr.Green55]

Yeah I can definitely see the difference. I have to say I was wondering about the amount of blue for exactly that reason. Very leafy growth but also blue regulates stomatal opening so maybe? Better use of co2. Possibly part of the reason they say you need co2 with these lights?

I'm gonna put this out there as I have given it a lot of thought over the past few months. And again pure speculation.

I feel like I have a hard time under my 3000k led making pretty plants in veg. It tends to make less leafy plants and just overall crappy looking veg. But I feel the spectrum really grows bigger roots and shoots which boosts my harvests. I have done a lot of reading on how spectrum affects growth and more than one study showed increased overall root growth with a red leaning spectrum this also included larger flower dry weight when compared to a more blue leaning spectrum.

And partly why I'm trying to pay close attention to the grow.what I was think

I feel that a red leaning spectrum increases root growth right from the get go and sure plants are not nearly as pretty but if roots shoots and dry weight of flower are my goals I'm good with that.

Blue leaning spectrum from my understanding will not only produce more leaves but also the surface area of those leaves.

There is a lot more to my madness but that's the basic gist of it. I kinda feel like the lights are marketing toward pretty plants for all the instagram growers etc. Since that's how many ppl judge grows. But I can't help but feel like a more red leaning spectrum from the start has an effect on the yields. Call me crazy but there input it out there and by no means an I claiming I'm right, it's something I'm trying to figure out.

I agree 110% with you, I was just going to say LED lights have to much blue for me. and that is partially what I was think about the sugar is how does that blue light transfer in to the plant.

 

[Aqua Man]

I agree 110% with you, I was just going to say LED lights have to much blue for me. and that is partially what I was think about the sugar is how does that blue light transfer in to the plant.

Well that makes me feel a bit more comfortable discussing it. And why I was wondering if maybe gavita figured out something with the red spectrum to give the best of both worlds.

Now I still have no doubt that @sshz is not going to have any issue pulling 2 lbs a light. And also I wonder with the more blue spectrum if he ends up with a more robust terpene content and slight increased thc % also associated with more of the blue spectrum. If so and within reason I would absolutely take that tradeoff.

 

[Dr.Green55]

Not according to Bugbee I think he said there is really no difference.

 

[Aqua Man]

Not according to Bugbee I think he said there is really no difference.

Hmmm I'm gonna have to go back and look through my info. I may be wrong. If I find it I'll pm ya so i don't clutter Mr @sshz thread to much. This is the perfect thread and timing for me, he is a very accomplished grower with tons of experience and doesn't BS so opportunity for some very good information here.