Is Organics Lacking? Bottles Needed?

[jumpincactus]

There is also research and studies out there that ellude to molasses causing salmonella and E.Coli issues as well. The science I have encountered made sense. I will see if I can round up links for the data.

 

[slap14]

Immobilized nitrogen will be unavailable to plants for a time, but will eventually become available as residue decomposition proceeds and populations of microorganisms decline, hence why I brew protozoa teas to speed to release via cycling and predation.

What are you using to create this type of tea? Is it just a matter of brewing your tea longer? If you're growing in pots instead of beds do you feel that would have any baring on the types of additions you put in your tea or the type of tea (fungal, Bacterial ect) for that matter?

Slap

 

[Ecompost]

What are you using to create this type of tea? Is it just a matter of brewing your tea longer? If you're growing in pots instead of beds do you feel that would have any baring on the types of additions you put in your tea or the type of tea (fungal, Bacterial ect) for that matter?

Slap

I use either a fish based bio stim product called Bio Veg or I use a carbohydrate input called iNititiate. for liquid stimulants, but I just use EWC bro based on 2.3-2.4% by vol water, the liquid I feed in at 0.50% by vol. Yes i brew it for longer, usually 36 hours or there abouts to get the full set of biology, this being the bacteria, fungus protozoa and nematdes.. I grow in beds and pots mate, in soil, hydro, all sorts depending on the crop and the reason. I just use more products like Fulvic and Chitin in hydro to address the acidic preference. I use different microbes for hydro, I tend not to use lots of Bacillus in hydro, leaning to DSE fungus and gram positive bacteria

 

[Ecompost]

There is also research and studies out there that ellude to molasses causing salmonella and E.Coli issues as well. The science I have encountered made sense. I will see if I can round up links for the data.

I suspect this is more likely with manure inputs and BSM, and i dont think people should worry too much, It is possible that ecoli is already in your gardens, but your trichoderma or other microbe may have suppressed its primary function, but it might also be true that your plant is maxing out the secondary metabolites as harpins.

Added.... source Purdue Uni

E. coli can live for weeks around the roots of produce plants and transfer to the edible portions, but the threat can be minimized if growers don't harvest too soon, a Purdue University study shows.

Purdue scientists added E. coli to soil through manure application and water treated with manure and showed that the bacteria can survive and are active in the rhizosphere, or the area around the plant roots, of lettuce and radishes. E. coli eventually gets onto the aboveground surfaces of the plants, where it can live for several weeks. Activity in the rhizosphere was observed using a bioluminescent E. coli created by Bruce Applegate that glows when active. Applegate, a co-author on the project, is an associate professor in the food science and biological sciences departments at Purdue.

"E. coli is actually quite active in the rhizosphere. They're eating something there - probably plant exudates," said Ron Turco, a professor of agronomy and co-author of the study published in the November issue of the Journal of Food Protection.

Turco said the E. coli didn't survive on the plants' surfaces more than 40 days after seeds were planted. Harvesting produce at least 40 days after planting should reduce the possibility of contamination, but he warned that E. coli could still come from other sources.

"In actual field application, you pick up other things that are all around," Turco said. "You don't just get the plants that are 40 days old. An animal getting loose in a field could also contaminate plants."

Mussie Habteselassie, Turco's former postdoctoral researcher and now an assistant professor of soil microbiology at the University of Georgia's Griffin campus, said harvesting practices in manure-treated fields can be critical for produce crops.

"If you harvest young and old plants together or mix them after harvesting, there is risk of contamination of the older plants," Habteselassie said. "If plants are uprooted during harvest, there is also a possibility of contamination from E. coli living in the rhizosphere."

Producers should apply manure to fields well in advance of planting and harvesting. Turco said a wait of 90-120 days between manure application and harvesting, with a minimum of 40 days between planting and harvesting, should minimize the chance of E. coli contamination.

Turco said he would continue studying E. coli's ability to survive in different situations, including in water and processed produce. The U.S. Department of Agriculture funded the research.

Writer: Brian Wallheimer, 765-496-2050, [email protected]

Sources: Ron Turco, 765-494-8077, [email protected]

Mussie Habteselassie, 770-229-3336, [email protected]

Ag Communications: (765) 494-2722;
Keith Robinson, [email protected]
Agriculture News Page

 

[jumpincactus]

I suspect this is more likely with manure inputs and BSM, and i dont think people should worry too much, It is possible that ecoli is already in your gardens, but your trichoderma or other microbe may have suppressed its primary function, but it might also be true that your plant is maxing out the secondary metabolites as harpins.

Added.... source Purdue Uni

E. coli can live for weeks around the roots of produce plants and transfer to the edible portions, but the threat can be minimized if growers don't harvest too soon, a Purdue University study shows.

Purdue scientists added E. coli to soil through manure application and water treated with manure and showed that the bacteria can survive and are active in the rhizosphere, or the area around the plant roots, of lettuce and radishes. E. coli eventually gets onto the aboveground surfaces of the plants, where it can live for several weeks. Activity in the rhizosphere was observed using a bioluminescent E. coli created by Bruce Applegate that glows when active. Applegate, a co-author on the project, is an associate professor in the food science and biological sciences departments at Purdue.

"E. coli is actually quite active in the rhizosphere. They're eating something there - probably plant exudates," said Ron Turco, a professor of agronomy and co-author of the study published in the November issue of the Journal of Food Protection.

Turco said the E. coli didn't survive on the plants' surfaces more than 40 days after seeds were planted. Harvesting produce at least 40 days after planting should reduce the possibility of contamination, but he warned that E. coli could still come from other sources.

"In actual field application, you pick up other things that are all around," Turco said. "You don't just get the plants that are 40 days old. An animal getting loose in a field could also contaminate plants."

Mussie Habteselassie, Turco's former postdoctoral researcher and now an assistant professor of soil microbiology at the University of Georgia's Griffin campus, said harvesting practices in manure-treated fields can be critical for produce crops.

"If you harvest young and old plants together or mix them after harvesting, there is risk of contamination of the older plants," Habteselassie said. "If plants are uprooted during harvest, there is also a possibility of contamination from E. coli living in the rhizosphere."

Producers should apply manure to fields well in advance of planting and harvesting. Turco said a wait of 90-120 days between manure application and harvesting, with a minimum of 40 days between planting and harvesting, should minimize the chance of E. coli contamination.

Turco said he would continue studying E. coli's ability to survive in different situations, including in water and processed produce. The U.S. Department of Agriculture funded the research.

Writer: Brian Wallheimer, 765-496-2050, [email protected]

Sources: Ron Turco, 765-494-8077, [email protected]

Mussie Habteselassie, 770-229-3336, [email protected]

Ag Communications: (765) 494-2722;
Keith Robinson, [email protected]
Agriculture News Page

Very nice bro. I thank you for that. I havent seen this till now. Respect

 

[cannakis]

I suspect this is more likely with manure inputs and BSM, and i dont think people should worry too much, It is possible that ecoli is already in your gardens, but your trichoderma or other microbe may have suppressed its primary function, but it might also be true that your plant is maxing out the secondary metabolites as harpins.

Added.... source Purdue Uni

E. coli can live for weeks around the roots of produce plants and transfer to the edible portions, but the threat can be minimized if growers don't harvest too soon, a Purdue University study shows.

Purdue scientists added E. coli to soil through manure application and water treated with manure and showed that the bacteria can survive and are active in the rhizosphere, or the area around the plant roots, of lettuce and radishes. E. coli eventually gets onto the aboveground surfaces of the plants, where it can live for several weeks. Activity in the rhizosphere was observed using a bioluminescent E. coli created by Bruce Applegate that glows when active. Applegate, a co-author on the project, is an associate professor in the food science and biological sciences departments at Purdue.

"E. coli is actually quite active in the rhizosphere. They're eating something there - probably plant exudates," said Ron Turco, a professor of agronomy and co-author of the study published in the November issue of the Journal of Food Protection.

Turco said the E. coli didn't survive on the plants' surfaces more than 40 days after seeds were planted. Harvesting produce at least 40 days after planting should reduce the possibility of contamination, but he warned that E. coli could still come from other sources.

"In actual field application, you pick up other things that are all around," Turco said. "You don't just get the plants that are 40 days old. An animal getting loose in a field could also contaminate plants."

Mussie Habteselassie, Turco's former postdoctoral researcher and now an assistant professor of soil microbiology at the University of Georgia's Griffin campus, said harvesting practices in manure-treated fields can be critical for produce crops.

"If you harvest young and old plants together or mix them after harvesting, there is risk of contamination of the older plants," Habteselassie said. "If plants are uprooted during harvest, there is also a possibility of contamination from E. coli living in the rhizosphere."

Producers should apply manure to fields well in advance of planting and harvesting. Turco said a wait of 90-120 days between manure application and harvesting, with a minimum of 40 days between planting and harvesting, should minimize the chance of E. coli contamination.

Turco said he would continue studying E. coli's ability to survive in different situations, including in water and processed produce. The U.S. Department of Agriculture funded the research.

Writer: Brian Wallheimer, 765-496-2050, [email protected]

Sources: Ron Turco, 765-494-8077, [email protected]

Mussie Habteselassie, 770-229-3336, [email protected]

Ag Communications: (765) 494-2722;
Keith Robinson, [email protected]
Agriculture News Page

See this turned into a very informative discussion. Crazy when Really start getting down to everything. Producing the Food Supply is no joke.

 

[HippyFarmerT]

@cannakis , I spent $75 last year total on things like: inoculants, rock phosphates, neem, garlic oil, red wriggler worms, humic acid(dry/liquid both)

There is also research and studies out there that ellude to molasses causing salmonella and E.Coli issues as well. The science I have encountered made sense. I will see if I can round up links for the data.

And I can probably find the exact minute in the video, but Dr. Ingham explains steel cut oats feeding a more favorable group of microbes opposed to molasses. A link here to her website: http://www.soilfoodweb.com

Everything I remember says BSM is a great food source and small amounts make for perfectly healthy tea recipes and microbe herds, but some people prefer having a fungal dominant tea, in which case oats or a more complex sugar would be used. Depends on your current microbe herd and what you're trying to encourage or discourage within the system. Props to all the replies above. Learning so much! :smoking:

 

[cannakis]

@cannakis , I spent $75 last year total on things like: inoculants, rock phosphates, neem, garlic oil, red wriggler worms, humic acid(dry/liquid both)



And I can probably find the exact minute in the video, but Dr. Ingham explains steel cut oats feeding a more favorable group of microbes opposed to molasses. A link here to her website: http://www.soilfoodweb.com

Everything I remember says BSM is a great food source and small amounts make for perfectly healthy tea recipes and microbe herds, but some people prefer having a fungal dominant tea, in which case oats or a more complex sugar would be used. Depends on your current microbe herd and what you're trying to encourage or discourage within the system. Props to all the replies above. Learning so much! :smoking:

Pictures?

 

[Ecompost]

@cannakis , I spent $75 last year total on things like: inoculants, rock phosphates, neem, garlic oil, red wriggler worms, humic acid(dry/liquid both)



And I can probably find the exact minute in the video, but Dr. Ingham explains steel cut oats feeding a more favorable group of microbes opposed to molasses. A link here to her website: http://www.soilfoodweb.com

Everything I remember says BSM is a great food source and small amounts make for perfectly healthy tea recipes and microbe herds, but some people prefer having a fungal dominant tea, in which case oats or a more complex sugar would be used. Depends on your current microbe herd and what you're trying to encourage or discourage within the system. Props to all the replies above. Learning so much! :smoking:

I think the thing is to not overdo any inputs. There is lots of decent data to suggest totals for inputs.

For example, the dry matter, eg compost/ ewc, steel cut oats or other are best up to and no more than 2.5% by vol. So this being No of Gallons H2O x 2.5 = Y
As far as liquids, there is no major with BSM, its more to do with over feeding it and selecting bad actors. So for liquids inputs like BSM I use no more than 0.50% by vol.
So this being No of gallons H2O x 0.50 = X.

Below is a list of the critical issues:

• QUALITY OF Base Brew water - using filtered rainwater is best because its free, mostly clean, and is in keeping with the ethos of less is more.... hold this under no-light and adequately-filtered air diffusion. Every other water (including well water) needs to be tested for pH (6.8-7.2 is best); and mineral content (such as iron) before use. ANY chlorine/chloramines/fluorides remaining in tap water will kill microbes. Do NOT use aquarium chemicals to adjust pH.
  
• ALWAYS fully-aerate brew water before ANYTHING is added into it. If not able to achieve a MINIMUM 8ppm of dissolved oxygen prior to ANY additions - DON'T BREW because your aerator has insufficient capacity. Why? Because ANYTHING added to the water takes up space - which reduces the capacity of that water to achieve and maintain the needed dissolved oxygen content needed for microbes to reproduce effectively. Monitoring the dissolved oxygen content during a brew is vital - because every microbe reproduced - uses more oxygen - and when reproducing billions of bacterial per hour, simply the reproduction cycle can drive a brew facultative and even anaerobic. Watch for excessive foaming and understand what that means to brew quality.
• Water TEMPERATURE is vitally important - and must be maintained constant, throughout the brew process. An aquarium heater will work IF properly sized to the tank volume. 85 degrees Fahrenheit (85F) is the target temperature prior to beginning a brew. Yes, cooler water will hold more dissolved oxygen, but will also decrease microbial reproduction.
• Use the highest quality Microbial Starter product you can buy (or make) that has Nature's FULL diversity in it this is why I started BOX Nutrients, to do it right myself - you cannot propagate a microbe species in tea, that is not present in the Starter, so no nematodes in the add, no nematodes in the tea.. ANYBODY can make a high-bacterial brew - but such limited diversity is not enough on its own. Only a high-fungal tea is worthwhile - and based on my testing of Starter products on the market, most are close to worthless in terms of containing a high quantity of a large, actively-growing fungal population. Fungi DO NOT grow quickly in tea. Fungi are slow growing - AND there's a LOT of difference between growing existing fungi - and getting fungi to reproduce in tea. So in order to achieve a 1:.25 Bacteria-to-Fungi (B:F) ratio in a 24-hour brew - the fungal population in the Starter must have at least a 1:4 B:F ratio BEFORE the brew begins. I have not tested a commercially-packaged product yet, that had a B:F ratio of more than 1:.75. By my 'yardstick', that's poor for use as a Starter product - which is why I make my own Microbial Starter and sell it for others not in a position of do this themselves.
• Use the highest quality Microbial Activator you can buy ( BOX Users Bio media Pro and Root Better) or make) to feed microbes the energy (carbonaceous) (Box users - Bio iNitiate, Bio Floret) and cell-building (nitrogenous) foods needed to coax them to reproduce efficiently (Bio Veg) - and select for only beneficial aerobic microbes.

peace eco

 

[Ecompost]

Also, if you know a cattle, pig, chicken farmer, ask him about his contribution to the destruction of our medicines....if anyone is to blame for messing up the battle with microbes, its these dicks and the privatization of animal welfare via Vets and the other fucking assholes in it for money. Short term is dead in the end....see a tar sands field...this is what it will look lik everywhere unless we stop and think and use our knowledge to convert tomorrows farmers

http://www.naturalnews.com/030555_pig_farms_antibiotics.html

 

[slap14]

Human beings biggest failure is taking shortcuts trying to improve on nature, i've got a big surprise for you it can't be done. She has been doing this for millions of years (or for you religious people 5000 years wink & a nod) The best we can do is mimic it to the best of our ability and try and figure out what and why she does what she does. At this point we don't even really understand most micro life and what it's complete function is. I'm a big science guy but sometimes science gets implemented before the big picture is actually known and money is usually the cause of this.


Slap

 

[Ecompost]

Human beings biggest failure is taking shortcuts trying to improve on nature, i've got a big surprise for you it can't be done. She has been doing this for millions of years (or for you religious people 5000 years wink & a nod) The best we can do is mimic it to the best of our ability and try and figure out what and why she does what she does. At this point we don't even really understand most micro life and what it's complete function is. I'm a big science guy but sometimes science gets implemented before the big picture is actually known and money is usually the cause of this.


Slap

I agree we tend to rush things. I came from an IT background mate, I walk and breathe resilience and risk mitigation. To suggest however that humans cant positively impact nature is just as much BS as tho who say we can totally master it.
I am nature, dont know about you?? Short cuts? Who is taking short cuts over here? We worked for 8 years before we released our first nutrients. We understood to the level of human capacity today, what the microbes we grow are and do.
this has been happening for years mate, but the data has been suppressed or silo'd from the masses. Popular economics insures this will be true tomorrow also and it is this that you are annoyed with I think and not genuine people trying to understand and help recover the damage of short-termist profiteers.
I can tell you mate, if you USE BOX nutrients, over time you will require less and less....show me another nutrient company where this is true? I am working to make myself redundant mate, this is the only outcome that makes any sense to me....

Peace
Eco

 

[slap14]

@Ecompost
My rant was not targeted at you my friend. More along the lines of the Monsanto, Dupont or Syngenta. I wholeheartedly agree there some smaller businesses that try and do things the right way. The problem is the people making the decisions for these large multinational businesses have no form of a moral compass whatsoever.
Keep doing things the right way as it sounds like you are.

Slap

 

[Ecompost]

@Ecompost
My rant was not targeted at you my friend. More along the lines of the Monsanto, Dupont or Syngenta. I wholeheartedly agree there some smaller businesses that try and do things the right way. The problem is the people making the decisions for these large multinational businesses have no form of a moral compass whatsoever.
Keep doing things the right way as it sounds like you are.

Slap

agreed, and i wasnt upset by you mate, just rather wanting to show difference. People power is forcing Monsanto...see they are looking to merge with Bayer, so they can change names and shrug the definition of the term "Monsanto"...I mean just saying it makes me feel a little more poisoned...Let it be known, Bayer are the same disgusting animal and even tho more people know the name Monsanto means the devils work, we can know this is true of Bayer also. Bayer colluded with the Nazis in WW2...they are bastards of the highest order... Changing the name, like changing the face of the president, is a f*cking waste of time unless we all first address the very idea of the super structure itself. What world do we want? One where the soil is torn for tar sands, or one where we can grow our own food safely, protected by diversity and better able to manage to increasing rate of pollutants touted by these corporate f*ckwads?

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/bayer-nazi-role-article-1.701925

dont trust the Germans, see how they have always invested in Chemicals against humanities interests, they lied about your car emissions, they actually invested R&D in technology to cheat tests. The VW scandal is far worse than the press have presented. People in business are spending time and money researching how to cheat the world. And they want people to stay in Europe, what so they can carry on like they are today? Fuck that.....

Rant over
Eco

 

[oldskol4evr]

I think the thing is to not overdo any inputs. There is lots of decent data to suggest totals for inputs.

For example, the dry matter, eg compost/ ewc, steel cut oats or other are best up to and no more than 2.5% by vol. So this being No of Gallons H2O x 2.5 = Y
As far as liquids, there is no major with BSM, its more to do with over feeding it and selecting bad actors. So for liquids inputs like BSM I use no more than 0.50% by vol.
So this being No of gallons H2O x 0.50 = X.

Below is a list of the critical issues:

• QUALITY OF Base Brew water - using filtered rainwater is best because its free, mostly clean, and is in keeping with the ethos of less is more.... hold this under no-light and adequately-filtered air diffusion. Every other water (including well water) needs to be tested for pH (6.8-7.2 is best); and mineral content (such as iron) before use. ANY chlorine/chloramines/fluorides remaining in tap water will kill microbes. Do NOT use aquarium chemicals to adjust pH.
  
• ALWAYS fully-aerate brew water before ANYTHING is added into it. If not able to achieve a MINIMUM 8ppm of dissolved oxygen prior to ANY additions - DON'T BREW because your aerator has insufficient capacity. Why? Because ANYTHING added to the water takes up space - which reduces the capacity of that water to achieve and maintain the needed dissolved oxygen content needed for microbes to reproduce effectively. Monitoring the dissolved oxygen content during a brew is vital - because every microbe reproduced - uses more oxygen - and when reproducing billions of bacterial per hour, simply the reproduction cycle can drive a brew facultative and even anaerobic. Watch for excessive foaming and understand what that means to brew quality.
• Water TEMPERATURE is vitally important - and must be maintained constant, throughout the brew process. An aquarium heater will work IF properly sized to the tank volume. 85 degrees Fahrenheit (85F) is the target temperature prior to beginning a brew. Yes, cooler water will hold more dissolved oxygen, but will also decrease microbial reproduction.
• Use the highest quality Microbial Starter product you can buy (or make) that has Nature's FULL diversity in it this is why I started BOX Nutrients, to do it right myself - you cannot propagate a microbe species in tea, that is not present in the Starter, so no nematodes in the add, no nematodes in the tea.. ANYBODY can make a high-bacterial brew - but such limited diversity is not enough on its own. Only a high-fungal tea is worthwhile - and based on my testing of Starter products on the market, most are close to worthless in terms of containing a high quantity of a large, actively-growing fungal population. Fungi DO NOT grow quickly in tea. Fungi are slow growing - AND there's a LOT of difference between growing existing fungi - and getting fungi to reproduce in tea. So in order to achieve a 1:.25 Bacteria-to-Fungi (B:F) ratio in a 24-hour brew - the fungal population in the Starter must have at least a 1:4 B:F ratio BEFORE the brew begins. I have not tested a commercially-packaged product yet, that had a B:F ratio of more than 1:.75. By my 'yardstick', that's poor for use as a Starter product - which is why I make my own Microbial Starter and sell it for others not in a position of do this themselves.
• Use the highest quality Microbial Activator you can buy ( BOX Users Bio media Pro and Root Better) or make) to feed microbes the energy (carbonaceous) (Box users - Bio iNitiate, Bio Floret) and cell-building (nitrogenous) foods needed to coax them to reproduce efficiently (Bio Veg) - and select for only beneficial aerobic microbes.

peace eco

i like this eco,havent seen ,but like