Just another MPB 1st timer

[mrdizzle]

I have found my best spacing, stem to stem to be 6ft, gives you a 5ft wide bush with about 8-12 inches from the bulbs, but the plants that dont have a bulb inbetween should be closer, the number 3 plant is closer 5ft centers to the other plants, because there is no bulbs to space, that way the plants pretty much almost overlap, I think it helps max the space and light
1 o 2
o 3 o
4 o 5

I think your problem is you didnt let the plants get big enough, they need at least a week, probably 2 in the buckets then they will explode, but thats after a couple weeks under some decent light. I think you flipped a semi shocked plant that stood still. I dont even flip mine until they are twice the size of yours now, each strain is different of course, the casey I vegged 9days, bubbas 18days. DD has found his strain only needs a week in the buckets

I have had 3plants now out of about 22 or so not really take off. Dont know why, they were vegged healthy, put it the buckets looking the same, they just didnt take off. I think its just the luck of the draw. when you have 80-200 plants you dont notice, but when you have 4 plants you need them to be healthy. good luck bro stick with it

 

[antimatter]

DDs quote 04-04-2010, 10:06 AM
These cuts will end up 3.5 ft tall, 4.5 ft wide and weigh in anywhere between 3 and 5 pounds.

You should never use that as a rule because those plants had way way above average sized buds on that strain and all very very compact, you could easily have plants 2-3x those dimensions to meet those weights or not meet them at all.

 

[GBOOST]

Well I personally will be running cool tubes, the air running thru them will be air conditioned, and I'm using these new sunpulse bulbs, which from all my research hive better quality bud, but due to slightly less intensity a little lower yield, which to me means less heat and can get closer to the bulb, so with those things in mind, I don't mind if the trees end up touching the cool tubes, they should be fine.

Still stands tho, 80" centres are probably losing a lot of light intensity for Graybeard, as well as a few little other hickups, but I guess thats the path we will all tread on our first run!!:happy

Ozzie

 

[Widowmaker]

You should never use that as a rule because those plants had way way above average sized buds on that strain and all very very compact, you could easily have plants 2-3x those dimensions to meet those weights or not meet them at all.

Its not a rule. The way I look at it, its what works with 40" centers. Even if you had the G13 DDs grows, we would have a hard time getting the results he does.

The reason for the quote was the end where small starts over grew the set up.

It seems to me that with the 4 1000w lights around a plant, most plants will not stay confined within that spacing. Given the feeding system he has developed.
:icon_spin:

 

[antimatter]

Its not a rule. The way I look at it, its what works with 40" centers. Even if you had the G13 DDs grows, we would have a hard time getting the results he does.

The reason for the quote was the end where small starts over grew the set up.

It seems to me that with the 4 1000w lights around a plant, most plants will not stay confined within that spacing. Given the feeding system he has developed.
:icon_spin:

Id say that as the plant gets wider and taller and you get out of that 40" center zone the bud density won't be as good, so if you can grow strain that stays very compact and uses all the space in that 40" centre to 100% efficiency then the huge yields are possible but I just can't see myself growing any plant with those dimensions and yielding over 1.5 let alone 2+, id have to go much bigger.

 

[Widowmaker]

DDs has said repeatedly that the 40" centers and results are tied to the genetics he's using. I want to say he's been growing G13 for 20 years (just guessing). He knows how to work that plant.
I'm not an experienced grower. 34 years ago I built ebb n flow systems and used 1000w MH lights, but stopped for 32 years, resumed recently. My understanding is based on reading DDs post here at the Farm. With that qualifier let me say this.
In horticulture class a million years ago (I'm very old) it was believed that light hitting the branches effected hormones in those branches, which caused more or less growth of those branches. My hypothesis is that the way DDs grows out his clones, having 1000w light 8" from a cutting in veg. causes the plant to have short internode growth. The vertical growth is stunted, but this is a good thing.
Light equals growth. With the plant being only 3.5' tall and lighting is able to hit the plant at a high intensity. The top cola gets hit on 4 sides at a greater distance, the branch colas are very close to the light and if they’re not close their getting hit with two lights. A bigger plant would need more lights to get the same intensity. To cover a large area your bulb needs to be farther away, farther away equals less intensity. So its knowing your plant and setting everything perfectly.
I’ve grown Black Widow in soil and pushed the nutes as hard as I could and they practically grew into one big bud. So big Budz is special genetics. See DDs plant below for some big budz.
View attachment 86736
Not sure what the answer is when you need to grow budz that the market demands that they be purple or black in color and smell like gods knows what. Your grow room will need to be flexible because plant size may not be very easy to control. Flexible plumbing and electrical systems maybe the answer.
:icon_spin:

 

[antimatter]

My biggest buds are half the size of DDs biggest so that does change things quite a bit as far as yield and space.

 

[Gray Beard]

My lights are 40 inches from plant center and outer buds are less than 20 inches away from lights at this point. I agree with widowmaker that things need to be adjustable. The two big plants vegged in those tubs under a single light for 30 days (bathroom) then an additional 2 weeks under the current setup. The 2 smaller girls went in to the room to soon after rooting, their roots didn't even hit the water until two weeks into bud. They were just filling space, I would have run the tubs without a plant in them but that didn't make any sense. I wanted to run the system for a full cycle prior to the summer heat to get a read on expenses and work out any mechanical issues I may run into and by the way If I got a yield that would be a bonus. I wanted to pull this run around June 1 and get another in, after a few tweeks to the room, and run it during summer months to work out ac/airflow bugs, also to get an idea of what the monthly nut was going to be. This may be a 3 season room. I could have waited to have 4 ready plants and a fully ready room but I would not have had the experience of solving the problems I did which I am pretty sure will play a big roll in the improved yields to come. Speaking of that, my new girls are in 5 gal top fed buckets with air stones and are gorgeous, currently 2- 3 ft tall, same strain. Pics tomorrow.

I really appreciate everyones input, that is why I am here. As I evolve as a grower I hope I can be as much help and inspiration to others as you folks have been for me!! Thanks!!

 

[GBOOST]

Thanks for the update and info GB. Just to be 100% clear, when you say 40" centres, you mean 40" from one plant to the other, thus 20" to the light?? Sorry to be so persistent with the info, the reason being I am setting up my own 4 plant 5 light room atm, and some say 40" plant to plant won't work, others are running it. I can only go to 45" myself and still fit the room. so I guess I'll just suck it and see!!

Ozzie

 

[Gray Beard]

Running a 4 plant 5 light setup in a 10x11 room doesn't give a person many options when it comes to plant and light placement. What I did was, in the empty room, find the center and that is where your first light goes. Then I measured 40" away from that for plant placement. I put my tubs towards the corners of the room. Then I measured 40" from plants for the remaining light placements. That put each plant 40", on center, to each of the nearest lights. Laying a 4 plant out like this allows for additional lights in each corner of the room. So it could evolve into a 4 plant 9 light setup. I have yet to measure how far apart that put the plants from one another. It really helped me to actually bring the empty tubs into the room and just start moving them around just to get a feel for what my options were. As I did this it became obvious to me that I had only one option considering my drain and rez placement. I hope that helps GB.

Veg. pics.

 

[Gray Beard]

I have two questions at the moment I would like someone to tackle.

First, I noticed that my pH swings were much more manageable after shutting off the top feed, any connection or just coincidence?

Second, I set my system up with the water from the chiller dumping back into the main rez. and then being pumped to the tubs. Has anyone run the water from the chiller directly to the tubs thru the top feed drip rather than dumping it back into the rez? I am currently doing this in veg. and as you can see above it seems to be working pretty well. Any ideas?

 

[Lost]

Ditch the top feed.. its not needed and just causes problems.... :very_first_smiley:

 

[Gray Beard]

root photos

I wish I could call it "root porn". First shot is one of the big girls and the second is a small girl. Roots weren't pure white but they weren't brown either. Flushing started 4 days ago.

 

[LordDankinstien]

Hey greybread, what kind of fan do you have bringing in fresh air and what size exhausting? I helped a few of my buddys set up and they never listen to me when I tell them they need more fresh air flow, and there buds always end up small and not like kolas at all. I read you have a 12in fan venting but is that just venting your cool tubes? Because im thinking you may need another for fresh air if your not already running one. If your not running co2 you I would have at leaste a 600 to 800 cfm fan exchanging fresh air all the time.

 

[Gray Beard]

Air in flow is one of the problems that will be addressed between the runs. That is why the room will probably have to be a three season room, it gets 105 degrees where I am at. If I bring in air at that temp. my ac probably wont shut off 'til Oct. Researching mini splits as we speak, Fujitsu is brand my contractor buddy likes. Currently 1400cfm fan at about 1/2 speed with only 4 - 4 inch induct fans as inflow. No CO2 yet. Fall, winter and spring are great, summer is a bitch!

The room is located in one bay of 4 car garage. Bud room draws air from the veg./rez. room which draws air from interior of the garage which gets it's flow from the outside. My original plan was to use ac in bud, veg and the part of the garage air is drawn from and then have a second 12 inch fan bringing in as much airflow as is going out. If the mini split isn't to expensive I may get it in this yr. but more than likely it will be next yr.

If I run CO2 can I reduce the amount of hot summer air I have to bring in?

 

[GBOOST]

Have you thought about cool tubes mate?? Surely that and AC would have you sorted?? Maybe overdo the AC and go for 5000btu per 1k light, I highly doubt you'll have issues in even the highest temps with that.

Ozzie

 

[TrichromeFan]

I would also agree. Go for the split AC, seal the room, and add the CO2. That is the dds way.:rauch08:

 

[Gray Beard]

Cool Tubes are in and each room, veg and bud have their own portable ac unit. I don't think I will have a problem keeping things cool enough it is just will the utility co. be the only one making profit. I am looking at the Fujitsu, www.constantcomfort.com, one exterior unit can run up to 4 separate interior units. Looks pretty cool!

 

[GBOOST]

Remember GB, weed will always be worth more than power, even if your growing just for yourself, the price of the elec compared to what you'd pay for your smoke is still much much less. Still sucks to have to pay for it, if only I could afford to build a wind farm:D

Ozzie

 

[LordDankinstien]

The room is located in one bay of 4 car garage. Bud room draws air from the veg./rez. room which draws air from interior of the garage which gets it's flow from the outside. My original plan was to use ac in bud, veg and the part of the garage air is drawn from and then have a second 12 inch fan bringing in as much airflow as is going out. If the mini split isn't to expensive I may get it in this yr. but more than likely it will be next yr.

If I run CO2 can I reduce the amount of hot summer air I have to bring in?

It gets to 105 at night?? Fuck man that hot if its really that hot at night what im about to say wont work. Get and just spend that cash and set it up the way dd says.


This might be your problem,I would get an 8in 800+cfm fan and duct it all the way to the outside, find a cool place preferably from under the house if possible cut a hole and attach that 8in duct to it, and have that run all the way to the inside of your flowering room, between that and your fan you have venting your cool tubes you should get enough air flow to cool your room much better and to provide your plants with much need fresh co2,if you build up positive pressure just add one more exhaust fan and leave those 4 4in holes you have for added air flow. Just think about it this way once your done with your grow you could always patch that 8in hole up for pennys on the dollar and the cost of the extra fans is just the price you have to pay without cooling that room with a fatty a/c.

Running co2 is just gonna add more issues than you already have, once you seal that room for adding co2 your deffinitly gonna have to get a mini split, plus your gonna need a fatty dehumidifier, and all the co2 equiptment. Its not cheap to control a enviroment once you close it off like that. Just add that air flow if you can exhaust that room fast enough you should be able to get the temps down, if you run it at night. Good luck