Kanzeon's Perpetual Growth and Death Thread

[Kanzeon]

Next round is down!

Framboise (Kryptonite x Mello's PGSC) x (MAC x Cherry Wine CBD)

Blue Power Mango

Blueberry Amnesia

In a few weeks, I'll actually have space for males again! Which is good, because, you know, that pollen isn't gonna chuck itself.

8 weeks was yesterday on the G13 Hashplant, she might end up going 9. Same with Sky Cuddler, that's looking like it still wants a couple weeks or so. G13 Haze should be chopped by Mid-March.

Then those will be replaced with Pipatxu, Panama Red, and Lemon Citron.

 

[Kanzeon]

That first G13 Hashplant went into darkness today, and will be cut and hung on Sunday, and left under the veg light in the hopes that it'll reveg while the seeds finish. I'm very wary of cutting this too early because the seeds in it should be fucking dynamite.

The updated seedling and clone closet. Some of the seedlings looked a little rough, but they're bouncing back.

Lemon OG Kush x 2
Heavy Grapefruit x 2
Supreme Lemon x 2
Lemon Pie x 1
Siberian Haze x 1
Kubanskiy Ubiyza x 1
Moonshine Amnesia x 1
Lemon Citron x 1

Lemon Citron, going into veg overtime. With the '88G13HP getting sent to Valhalla soon, that freed up room for both the Pipatxu and the Panama Red to get flipped, and the last G13HP getting up-potted, estimating that she'll get flipped when the G13 Haze in flower now is finished.

I burned the shit out of the Sky Cuddler a couple feeds ago, but those colas are still getting stupid thick. Pipatxu is kinda tucked in behind the SCDK, and Panama Red is right in front.

The second Sky Cuddler is getting really thick as well, but also clawing from me giving them too much N. G13 Haze is yellowing, but still stacking, and will get fed at full-strength tomorrow

I also decided that it was time to join the 21'st century and set up a bubble cloner.

Not the fanciest, but it'll work!

 

[tobh]

Man, looks like we grow the same way. Overdose em, but get em to the finish line all the same haha. My personal project looks a lot like that sky cuddler -- clawing till the bitter end. Never have been able to make her happy, but she's been a pet project for years so I keep her around like a sadistic captor.

 

[Frankster]

I like that last photo LOL, it give me hope. I've not worked with clones a whole lot, because most of the clones were provided for us years ago by the head cheese, as he held tight control over them. I wish I still had that strain of black licorice, it was a rare plant that was never circulated beyond a tight circle. One of a kind taste. I've been working with seeds for many years since. Seedlings are pretty and clones can be ugly ducks, but they eventually become beautiful over time.

The thing I'm noticing is that some of these try to keep just going up, I've bent them over, trying to stimulate branching in them, I guess that will happen once they pick up speed. I'm thinking its dependent on the particular clone, as some of them actually have branches already in them, and others were taken from straighter parts of the plant, that probably didn't have those cells replicating in full swing.

I've burnt a few plants like that also, especially after they achieve explosive growth like that, thinking I could pile more fuel to the fire, but I think pulling back some, is a better course of action, kinda reel it in at the end, (like a fish, draw away his energy over time) because once the plant hits the height of it's flowering stage, especially explosively, it's nutrient needs rapidly diminish as it matures, and the most prolific ones will have a lot of stored up energy already within them. I think maintenance is all that's required at that point, anything else is overkill, and generally going increase bulk over concentrating potency.

I'm also trying to do a bit more drought stressing at the later stages.

 

[Kanzeon]

Man, looks like we grow the same way. Overdose em, but get em to the finish line all the same haha. My personal project looks a lot like that sky cuddler -- clawing till the bitter end. Never have been able to make her happy, but she's been a pet project for years so I keep her around like a sadistic captor.

Hah! Both of those Sky Cuddlers have been tough to finish, but I'm also kinda making do with whatever I can get my hands on when it comes to dirt. I haven't been able to get the stuff to mix a new batch yet, so there are slight inconsistencies between plants. Both Sky Cuddlers have been very sensitive to overfeeding, while the G13 Haze has been fed a higher concentration of nutes and hasn't clawed at all, and the G13 Hashplant got fed very similarly and looks wonderful.

 

[tobh]

Hah! Both of those Sky Cuddlers have been tough to finish, but I'm also kinda making do with whatever I can get my hands on when it comes to dirt. I haven't been able to get the stuff to mix a new batch yet, so there are slight inconsistencies between plants. Both Sky Cuddlers have been very sensitive to overfeeding, while the G13 Haze has been fed a higher concentration of nutes and hasn't clawed at all, and the G13 Hashplant got fed very similarly and looks wonderful.

Honestly, I'm just convinced some plants just can't understand normal thinking and like to claw like arthritic hags lol

 

[Kanzeon]

I like that last photo LOL, it give me hope. I've not worked with clones a whole lot, because most of the clones were provided for us years ago by the head cheese, as he held tight control over them. I wish I still had that strain of black licorice, it was a rare plant that was never circulated beyond a tight circle. One of a kind taste. I've been working with seeds for many years since. Seedlings are pretty and clones can be ugly ducks, but they eventually become beautiful over time.

The thing I'm noticing is that some of these try to keep just going up, I've bent them over, trying to stimulate branching in them, I guess that will happen once they pick up speed. I'm thinking its dependent on the particular clone, as some of them actually have branches already in them, and others were taken from straighter parts of the plant, that probably didn't have those cells replicating in full swing.

I've burnt a few plants like that also, especially after they achieve explosive growth like that, thinking I could pile more fuel to the fire, but I think pulling back some, is a better course of action, kinda reel it in at the end, (like a fish, draw away his energy over time) because once the plant hits the height of it's flowering stage, especially explosively, it's nutrient needs rapidly diminish as it matures, and the most prolific ones will have a lot of stored up energy already within them. I think maintenance is all that's required at that point, anything else is overkill, and generally going increase bulk over concentrating potency.

I'm also trying to do a bit more drought stressing at the later stages.

Yup, I think you're exactly right. Right after they peaked, I hit them with a bit of guano tea and the leaves faded on me. Maybe it started to ferment or something. I wonder if adding baking soda to an acidic nutrient solution and watering plants with that as it's reacting would increase the amount of CO2 that they take up...

Yeah, I'm still not great at cloning. I think the water is different in some way that makes it harder here, so I figure that dunking them in oxygenated water with aspirin and rooting hormone in it should hopefully counteract that. If not, I'll use the stone to make teas and make a more intricate airtight, lightproof misting cloner.

 

[Frankster]

The bottom line is that feeding schedules & micro climatic conditions vastly change from one strain to another. Once you dial in a familiar strain, and you think you've mastered the cannabis universe, they will throw you a curve ball every now and again and you'll have to compensate for whatever it's asking for.

Could simply be some sort of genetic dynamic between Indica, Sativa or the Ruderalis species, and everything in-between. Indica's are always easier for me to grow than anything, all being said.

 

[Frankster]

Yup, I think you're exactly right. Right after they peaked, I hit them with a bit of guano tea and the leaves faded on me. Maybe it started to ferment or something. I wonder if adding baking soda to an acidic nutrient solution and watering plants with that as it's reacting would increase the amount of CO2 that they take up...

Yeah, I'm still not great at cloning. I think the water is different in some way that makes it harder here, so I figure that dunking them in oxygenated water with aspirin and rooting hormone in it should hopefully counteract that. If not, I'll use the stone to make teas and make a more intricate airtight, lightproof misting cloner.

Actually a bit of acetic acid (vinegar) and perhaps CaCo3 would be more ideal, I've thought along the same lines, but I would start with minute amounts. There are other oxidizer as well, but I think your right, some sort of nitrification is at play, so you've got to watch pH and adjust, as it goes up.

 

[Kanzeon]

Yup. I did okay enough with that initial G13 Hashplant that I'm really excited to see what the next two have to offer.

The genetics are so wide that it's really difficult for anyone to claim to be able to know how to "grow cannabis" in more than a basic sense. The differences between an equatorial sativa, a Siberian autoflower, and Ye Olde Afghanis is ike the difference between gooseberries and tomatillos.

 

[Frankster]

I also think that the pH difference is going to be directly proportional to the amount of micro-organisms and the explosive growth is directly proportional to it, so their all inter-related and as your nitrification takes off, the most important factor is keeping and maintaining proper pH balance, and not adding more fuel to the fire. It's a mistake I've made repeated a few times, and this has got to the better course of action, IMO.

This is especially difficult to guage in solid media, such as soil.
More fuel (nutrients) can perhaps be considered after pH is demonstrated stable. Anythow, that's my mandra now.

 

[Frankster]

Great to see aqua's seal of approval on this subject. I guess the only thing that I can add on this, and I know I'm probably more guilty than most, about not checking as diligently as I should. I'm actually doing so right now, since I'm at a critical juncture and I'm not coming into flower with them as explosive or dark green as I would have liked.

Keeping an eye on the electrical conductivity EC/PPM. Interchangeably called Aqua fortis, Spirit of niter, Hydrogen nitrate or Acidum nitricum..... aka Strong Water....

(HNO3) has a mass percentage of 31 and a α (%/C°) of 31 that is significant, and need to be closely followed.
Nitrification is a huge factor magnifying & potentiating electrical conductivity, and the natural method of maintaining this process is with rain.... (something we generally ignore) constantly refreshing and renewing the living system, just like an anus, or urine, expelling all waste products, and allowing new growth to occur as the old has died off again, circle of life. Bacteria live on us, in us and entirely though use, they are symbian with out nutritional tracts... Some bacteria have fairly short half life I would imagine, but anything to stimulate/maintain cellular activity is going to be huge. The leaves/bud/plant are a but a mere byproduct of the life creating energy growing below it.

following pH levels, and maintain proper temps for optimum growth, maintaining the proper moisture levels are so very critical. When I can see little rootlets exploding out of my air pots, I know I'm hitting on all cylinders. But keeping/maintaining that though-out the life cycle is what's truly paramount. When you load up big, you've got to flush big, and reload. If it cooks too long, it's like becoming constipated, and believe you me, I was in the medical field 20 years, and people can die from not taking a shit, I've actually seen it, more than once. I've also seen people die while taking a shit, quite a few times... so maintaining proper waste management is critical for any lifeform, we are similar in many respects, and maintaining proper elimination is infact key to any organism. (including bacteria/fungi)

This is partly why flood tables, hydroponics are generally more effective than a soil grow if properly maintained, elimination...

I think of plant root tissues in terms of tissue healing in many respects, sorta like the living tissues called membrane. It's in our bowles, aka, our mucosal tissues, anus, mouth, noes, pussy, dick anything with a hole in it, and the hole. These kinds of tissues are not like leaves, stems, skin, bone. They are highly vascular, and they cannot be exposed to normal atmospheric conditions, weathering, they do not weather.... They DIE from exposure. They need moisture, or they die, and the general composition of the moisture can promote healthy and bacterial flora, and maintain optimum function... Or not... humectants are the key with these tissues.... Other hygroscopic substances (while certainly required) are at the root of the problem... when they become too highly concentrated. Nitrification process (in organics) is at the center of it all.

I've also got a 5 part nitrate set (for aquatic plants and salt water fish) that I purchased but haven't used yet. I'm sure this could be modified and used for fine tuning things even further, if one were so inclined.

 

[Frankster]

Sorry to ramble on about this subject, for me it's a learning experience in real time and it's always been one of the ways I learn. Reading, writing reviewing information and getting feedback from peers, it's all wonderful stuff for me and I enjoy it.

If I can walk away with another piece of the puzzle and drill it into this thick head and make it stick, it's a good day. Most of it is simply repetition and having the perpetuals while beneficial in some respects, it sometimes makes it harder because it all gets somewhat blended together, and the different stages have distinctly different needs, you've got to be on your toes.

 

[Milson]

When it comes to nitrogen in flower, my feeling is more water insoluble sources so the plant can manage it a bit better at the root level through symbiosis with nitrifying bacteria. The pH lowers with the additional salts from bloom nutrients and then rises with the nitrification process (the waste of the bacteria raises pH).

This is just an idea that I'm trying now. So far it seems okay. I had to use guano to green up a panama plant that was mid-beastmode, but other than that this has been smoother than trying to dose more readily available nitrogen sources in flower.

 

[Kanzeon]

Today is the day.

I'll be cutting almost all of the G13 Hashplant, saving the pollenated buds to mature a bit more while the lady revegges. I'm also taking down the Sky Cuddler- maybe it could have gone a week more but I don't really see the point and I'm tired of looking at it.

With them, the Pipatxu runt gets chopped as well. Just as well, because her stronger, more vigorous sister just got flipped and is likely going to stretch like crazy.

Next to come down is G13 Haze (likely 10-14 days out or so). When that happens, Lemon Citron will get flipped to replace her. After the is the second Sky Cuddler, replaced by the last of the G13 Hashplants. Then it'll either be the Durban-Thai x C99 or the Sour Sorbet, replaced by Moonshine Amnesia.

What plants get flipped at that point? They'll tell me! Depends which clones root fastest and which seedlings grow the most aggressively.

 

[Homesteader]

Why is everyone against using the word landrace? Sorry but WTF? It never was botanical term. It was coined in the livestock industry not botany. But either way, I am confused and missing something! There is a difference between landrace and heirloom. They are not the same. No cannabis is wild though, not really. Thus the sativa in the name.

 

[Kanzeon]

I think you answered your first question with your second one. It's not a botanical term, so why use it? How does it differ from heirloom? Or "regional heirloom?" What makes it better?

There they are, chopped, rinsed, and hung. Rinsed in what you ask?

Because fuck chlorine, that's why.

My hands fucking reek of G13 Hashplant. Mildewed old sock, tennis ball, armpit, and a tiny hint of pine.

 

[Homesteader]

Heirloom is a variety from a particular region that is grown in non native soil. A landrace is a variety from a region grown in that specific regions soil.
Real seed company has both heirloom and landrace. The Malawi for instance comes from Afropips years ago and is now a heirloom and not grown in malawi.

The two terms are similar in use though. Why is using the term the equivalent of nazism though? I don't get it.

 

[Milson]

Why is everyone against using the word landrace? Sorry but WTF? It never was botanical term. It was coined in the livestock industry not botany. But either way, I am confused and missing something! There is a difference between landrace and heirloom. They are not the same. No cannabis is wild though, not really. Thus the sativa in the name.

What does it mean? Why is that designation useful?

 

[Kanzeon]

Heirloom is a variety from a particular region that is grown in non native soil. A landrace is a variety from a region grown in that specific region.

The two terms are similar in use though. Why is using the term the equivalent of nazism though? I don't get it.

By that definition, landrace seeds can't exist! They'd be heirlooms as soon as they're shipped and planted somewhere else.

I generally concur with Angus from RSC/Kwikseeds in saying that a "landrace" is a domesticated plant from a particular region. AKA Colombian Gold, Panama Red, Vietnamese Black, Kandahar Black, etc, etc. That definition even fits with your description of heirlooms, and fits with other heirloom plants like, say, Crynkovic Yugoslavian or Black Krim tomatoes.

The issues are mainly etymological. Race is a sociological construct, and doesn't even really exist in humans, you know? How is a plant from somewhere a "race?"

I'm not saying it's the equivalent of Nazism. Regardless of racial implications, it's just a pretty clunky, ill-defined, and obsolete word.