Larry OG vs. Tahoe OG in Dual Monster Plant System

[outwest]

that is one beautiful woman. I love brunettes! So hey do you think I could win her over with my tattoo?

Definitely! Go for it!

outwest

 

[lordjin]

And just as promised! Flower Day 50! Harvest planned at Day 55! Are you getting excited?

 

[lordjin]

that is one beautiful woman. I love brunettes! So hey do you think I could win her over with my tattoo?View attachment 206997

Ah, do I sense a Tiffany fan? Come on, tell us how you really feel.

 

[Krasi]

I`m a Tiffany fan too, sexy goddess:D

I still think u overnuted the plants a little, they would have done better with healthier leafs, no bad comment just a personal opinion, still lovely grow with beautiful plants, very well photographed, so no complains here;)

 

[lordjin]

I`m a Tiffany fan too, sexy goddess:D

I still think u overnuted the plants a little, they would have done better with healthier leafs, no bad comment just a personal opinion, still lovely grow with beautiful plants, very well photographed, so no complains here;)

My last grow I made it a point to keep my leaves perfect. Same strain (Tahoe) from same cut house. I had to keep my nute concentration exceedingly low throughout to keep from burning, which grew my plants smaller... and gave me a smaller yield.

I'm gonna get much more bud this time. The nugs look stronger and more potent, too.

I've been doing this controlled burn for years to increase plant size and yield... I've not noticed a difference in bud quality between low nuted and higher nuted bud. But there is a difference in yield.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I like perfect leaves as much as the next guy. But I don't know of too many growers who would sacrifice yield for better looking leaves at the end. It's just not worth it for me to run all that power only to baby a plant by keeping it small.

BTW: On this higher nute run, the peak feed never exceeded 800ppm. They are now cruising on seedling strength to finish out. So you see? I kept the ppm quite low. These are just super sensitive.

 

[flowamasta]

i say considering you got 2 different strains in the same nute res, kudos man, both strains would take up nutrients at different times, and both can get deficiencies at different times, so i would imagine it being very difficult to find that balance, hopefully you get 2 more even clones next time, and maybe top them ;) hint hint

who said that :p

good work man, gonna have some mental nugs, that are going to make you very dumb

 

[lordjin]

i say considering you got 2 different strains in the same nute res, kudos man, both strains would take up nutrients at different times, and both can get deficiencies at different times, so i would imagine it being very difficult to find that balance, hopefully you get 2 more even clones next time, and maybe top them ;) hint hint

who said that :p

good work man, gonna have some mental nugs, that are going to make you very dumb

Thanks, mate. Yeah, it was a bitch keeping a balance between Larry and Tahoe. That smaller Larry plant wanted more, more, more... while the larger Tahoe plant got burned on the same nute. I think I struck a balance as best as I could given that little difficulty.

I never, never run two different strains next to each other in one tub. The person who got the clones for me didn't have a choice at the time, though... or so I was told. Considering everything that happened, I'm betting that person got me what HE wanted to see me grow, despite my NO TWO DIFFERENT STRAINS requirement.

Yeah, no more favors from people.

 

[flowamasta]

that sucks man, hey now you know how to clone, maybe you should be cutting yourself ;) look how my babies turn out :) 5 outside 3 going purple! really cold here outside, not frost, just cold, seems as though she has a bit of purp in her

 

[lordjin]

that sucks man, hey now you know how to clone, maybe you should be cutting yourself ;) look how my babies turn out :) 5 outside 3 going purple! really cold here outside, not frost, just cold, seems as though she has a bit of purp in her

I'll start cutting my own clones very soon, boss.

 

[nMEEKS]

My last grow I made it a point to keep my leaves perfect. Same strain (Tahoe) from same cut house. I had to keep my nute concentration exceedingly low throughout to keep from burning, which grew my plants smaller... and gave me a smaller yield.

I'm gonna get much more bud this time. The nugs look stronger and more potent, too.

I've been doing this controlled burn for years to increase plant size and yield... I've not noticed a difference in bud quality between low nuted and higher nuted bud. But there is a difference in yield.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I like perfect leaves as much as the next guy. But I don't know of too many growers who would sacrifice yield for better looking leaves at the end. It's just not worth it for me to run all that power only to baby a plant by keeping it small.

BTW: On this higher nute run, the peak feed never exceeded 800ppm. They are now cruising on seedling strength to finish out. So you see? I kept the ppm quite low. These are just super sensitive.

This does not sound correct to me, perfect leaves usually means a happy plant, and happy plants give bigger yields. Not to say that your experience has not been what it is LordJin, but nutrient toxicity will ALWAYS result in a lower yields than properly fertilized plants that do not have any deficiencies. Here is a very helpful simplified graph to illustrate the point I am trying to make about toxicity:

My guess is that in your previous grow, where you kept the leaves looking healthy but yield was lower, you were actually under-feeding in the marginal zone, or there was some completely different variable at the time that caused your lower yield.


I am not saying any of this with the intention of insulting your grow, or your results, only with the intention of preventing others from reading your advice and thinking it is based on fact. I am thoroughly impressed by your updates every time, but I felt the need to share this for others trying to learn as much as they can from this forum/your log, without learning the wrong stuff!

Can't wait for final pics over the last 5 days, and maybe some Tiffany pics after the shoot! Thanks for sharing everything so far!

-Meeks

P.S. on a side note, there are very specific times in other crops like Citrus that I know of where a perfectly timed foliar application of extra Nitrogen, when the plant is already fully healthy with no N deficiency, can have a plant growth regulator effect causing an increased final yield of fruit. But this foliar application is done right before floral initiation begins (not mid flowering), and only once, so it is not very relevant to your technique, but I thought I would mention the few situations I know of where adding more N, even when the plant has enough, can increase yield.

The other somewhat similar situation I know of is right after floral development begins on Avocado trees, the leaves will test perfect for nutrient levels (no deficiencies), but a foliar application of Nitrogen or Zinc will result in an increased final yield because the floral buds themselves do experience a very minor N and Zn deficiency during the first big burst of growth. This is not an application that results in any toxicity, just correcting for a minor deficiency before it occurs. It is very possible that either of these techniques might translate over to cannabis (I have been trying both out), but again neither of these were studies done on herbaceous plants.

 

[lordjin]

This does not sound correct to me, perfect leaves usually means a happy plant, and happy plants give bigger yields. Not to say that your experience has not been what it is LordJin, but nutrient toxicity will ALWAYS result in a lower yields than properly fertilized plants that do not have any deficiencies. Here is a very helpful simplified graph to illustrate the point I am trying to make about toxicity:
View attachment 207385
My guess is that in your previous grow, where you kept the leaves looking healthy but yield was lower, you were actually under-feeding in the marginal zone, or there was some completely different variable at the time that caused your lower yield.


I am not saying any of this with the intention of insulting your grow, or your results, only with the intention of preventing others from reading your advice and thinking it is based on fact. I am thoroughly impressed by your updates every time, but I felt the need to share this for others trying to learn as much as they can from this forum/your log, without learning the wrong stuff!

Can't wait for final pics over the last 5 days, and maybe some Tiffany pics after the shoot! Thanks for sharing everything so far!

-Meeks

P.S. on a side note, there are very specific times in other crops like Citrus that I know of where a perfectly timed foliar application of extra Nitrogen, when the plant is already fully healthy with no N deficiency, can have a plant growth regulator effect causing an increased final yield of fruit. But this foliar application is done right before floral initiation begins (not mid flowering), and only once, so it is not very relevant to your technique, but I thought I would mention the few situations I know of where adding more N, even when the plant has enough, can increase yield.

The other somewhat similar situation I know of is right after floral development begins on Avocado trees, the leaves will test perfect for nutrient levels (no deficiencies), but a foliar application of Nitrogen or Zinc will result in an increased final yield because the floral buds themselves do experience a very minor N and Zn deficiency during the first big burst of growth. This is not an application that results in any toxicity, just correcting for a minor deficiency before it occurs. It is very possible that either of these techniques might translate over to cannabis, but again neither of these are studies done on herbaceous plants.

Well I stand corrected, Good Sir. I had a bout with PM last round that kept things further from the optimal range as well.

Your info is great and much appreciated. In all truth, one never truly intends to burn his plants, he just pushes a little too hard and cuts back in time before burn spreads too far. I arrested it quite nicely and it's only limited to the edges of some of the larger fan leaves. I don't think I hindered bud quality much if at all (thank goodness).

This is also only my second try with the genetics from this particular place. Let's just call my first two attempts (this one included) successful but not quite perfect runs. Hey, but third time is a charm, right? I'll take your good advice and concentrate even harder to live up to it next time. We're all seeking perfection, and I fully realize that this isn't quite it. But in my final defense, I would like to add that the burn occurred during a period of the flu... and there was also that two different strains in one tub mix-up. Won't happen again, boss.

Much thanks for the lengthy, thoughtful comment.

 

[lordjin]

Tonight's Day 51 update! Hey Meeks! Here it is:
I dedicate this, Flower Day 51 update, to nMEEKS. Someone has finally shoved some much needed cotton in this cotton mouth and set the record straight. And if someone is going to shove cotton in my mouth in such a cordial, honest, and knowledgeable way, what can I do but listen? In short, what he said. Thanks, Meeks.

 

[nMEEKS]

HAHA, I offer this advice like I am the master of fertilizing plants myself, but if you take a look at my first WiFi thread, my second WU thread, or my third WMK thread. . . . you will see that I have this very same problem every single grow with at least one genotype in the tray! I am very glad you were able to receive the information with such an open mind, and again, I want to end by saying that your grow really does impress me with every update, and that is truly saying something, because you update almost everyday!!!

-Meeks

 

[lordjin]

HAHA, I offer this advice like I am the master of fertilizing plants myself, but if you take a look at my first WiFi thread, my second WU thread, or my third WMK thread. . . . you will see that I have this very same problem every single grow with at least one genotype in the tray! I am very glad you were able to receive the information with such an open mind, and again, I want to end by saying that your grow really does impress me with every update, and that is truly saying something, because you update almost everyday!!!

-Meeks

Well here's three more for ya, then.

 

[nMEEKS]

. . . . . . .

!!!

 

[Krasi]

There`s nothing wrong with that quality:D

Great info MEEKS, and discussions like this make a great forum, all info should be taken in consideration, that`s the way to go.
I love to harvest with leaves that went into autumn, but not by nute burn.
I love the saying "less is more" and that`s the way i grow, i try to start with a soil that`s very rich, by mixing organic material and then proceed with minimal of feeding trouhgout the grow.
Healthy plants do deliver better, but i do believe a good round has to finish in an autumn.;)

 

[lordjin]

There`s nothing wrong with that quality:D

Great info MEEKS, and discussions like this make a great forum, all info should be taken in consideration, that`s the way to go.
I love to harvest with leaves that went into autumn, but not by nute burn.
I love the saying "less is more" and that`s the way i grow, i try to start with a soil that`s very rich, by mixing organic material and then proceed with minimal of feeding trouhgout the grow.
Healthy plants do deliver better, but i do believe a good round has to finish in an autumn.;)

My method is pretty different from organic soil growing. One thing doesn't always apply to both worlds in quite the same way. I believe that nute burn in soil and nute burn in hydro are not the same thing. Nutrients are absorbed directly and more quickly in hydro... in fact everything happens more quickly and directly in hydro. Anything out of the norm appears quickly and any applied remedy takes effect just as quickly. This bears an overall impact on the health/life cycle of my plants that takes it pretty far from the realm of more conventional growing methods.

There's the idea that stress limits the plant's potential, but there's also the idea that stress causes the plant to exceed its potential. Since hydro moves on a much faster growth timeline, the plant reacts to stresses (as a defense mechanism) with more vigorous growth. The fact that my environment is ultra-concentrated and dialed in further contributes to my far, far greater than average vigor. My exceptional vigor allows me to play with training techinques that would break most plants. It also allows me to play with other stress variables like nute burn, which would be far more damaging to plants in a less robust grow environment that lacks precise controls.

Just a little food for thought.

 

[lordjin]

 

[Krasi]

Yummy:p

Your right about the differences in hydro and soil or organic soil, I did it all, now i`m really all the way organic.
In my hydro years i had some great runs too, and everthing does go faster, and is faster adjustable, also in hydro i had better and tastier weed with healthy leafed plants.
I`m not judging ur method, i just gave my opinion, i`m in fact impressed by your frosty budz and loving ur pics all the way.
Keep growing bro, peace:D

 

[nMEEKS]

My method is pretty different from organic soil growing. One thing doesn't always apply to both worlds in quite the same way. I believe that nute burn in soil and nute burn in hydro are not the same thing. Nutrients are absorbed directly and more quickly in hydro... in fact everything happens more quickly and directly in hydro. Anything out of the norm appears quickly and any applied remedy takes effect just as quickly. This bears an overall impact on the health/life cycle of my plants that takes it pretty far from the realm of more conventional growing methods.

There's the idea that stress limits the plant's potential, but there's also the idea that stress causes the plant to exceed its potential. Since hydro moves on a much faster growth timeline, the plant reacts to stresses (as a defense mechanism) with more vigorous growth. The fact that my environment is ultra-concentrated and dialed in further contributes to my far, far greater than average vigor. My exceptional vigor allows me to play with training techinques that would break most plants. It also allows me to play with other stress variables like nute burn, which would be far more damaging to plants in a less robust grow environment that lacks precise controls.

Just a little food for thought.

You are absolutely right that certain properly timed stress events can actually result in a higher final yield! What I want/hope to make clear is that stressing your plant whenever you feel like it, or accidentally at a random time during the grow, is not how you increase your yield with a stress event!

Beneficial stresses (when done perfectly) include: low-Nitrogen stress at the beginning of flowering to initiate floral growth more rapidly (DO NOT DO THIS IF YOU ARE GROWING FOR SEED), Drought stress at the start of flowering to initiate floral growth more rapidly, Cooler night time temps to decrease respiration and increase sugar content in the plant towards the end, nitrogen boosting at peak flowering without reaching the point of toxicity, and low-nutrient stressing the plants in the last week to encourage a pre-death final growth spurt.

It is easier to understand why some of these can actually be beneficial if you consider that a plants 1 and only main goal is to reproduce, and to do that, it wants to produce as much flower/fruit/seed as possible! For example, when the plant thinks it doesn't have enough water or nitrogen, it immediately tries to flower and reproduce before it thinks it is going to die, and if you water or fertilize at the perfect moment, when it is stressed, but not too much, you will start flowering much faster, saving a substantial amount of time in your grow period, without reducing yield, and sometimes increasing it!

The important thing I want to mention about plants grown in soil versus hydro is that either media you use, it is still the same plant, with the exact same physiology. . . which means that if stress is bad in one media, it is still bad in the other, almost guaranteed! Just because you can correct the problem faster in hydro, doesn't mean it wasn't a problem in the first place. The increased growth rate in hydro is caused by a more ideal growth environment for the roots (constant and complete water and nutrient availability), which means there is actually no increased growth rate if the roots are being stressed by any variable.

The plants defense mechanisms to stresses are almost always to shut down, or to slow down, what ever processes it can, until the stressor is fixed, and rarely (besides the times mentioned above) will its defense mechanisms be to actually increase growth rate.

You are correct when you say that stress is not nearly as damaging if you recover from it sooner rather than later, and having a perfect growing environment will always make that recovery faster and less stressful on the plant. I just get thrown off when your post reads like you are advocating for your not-100%-dialed feeding schedule (causes leaf burn), seemingly saying that it is actually better than a perfect feeding regime. . . ?
.
.
.
...Enough with my long-winded technical critiques of your clearly-successful method and beautiful grow! I will now go back to my usual staring and drooling!!

-Meeks