Leaf Damage / Stunted Growth

[justiceman]

Oh ok that PH down is fine. You're not wrong 6.2 isn't horrible but I was thinking that maybe for 24hrs+ it might begin to lock some things out. I could be wrong about that though as like I said before I haven't ran DWC so take my advice with a grain of salt.

The root stress is definitely the underlying factor just like you are thinking. We just need to think of how we can bring them back into an environment that allows them to repair and grow again.

Never heard of cleargrow calmag. I'm assuming it's calcium nitrate, and magnesium nitrate or sulfate?
What is deep 6? humic acid?

So your rez is at a total of .2EC(100ppm)? That's super low. Could be why the ph is not very stable and why they seem to be yellowing.

 

[mandalaman]

ClearGrow is essentially the product that cultured solutions sells. It's less expensive too. Local store carries it and the manager told me about it.

Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, Iron DTPA.

Deep6 is a Humic/Fulvic.

I was way off on my EC it's 290/500 so .6 approx.

I had lowered the light a tad but backed it off a bit again.

 

[mandalaman]

Oh and I would let it go about 24 hours before pH down to 5.6-5.8. It would quick rise to 6.2/6.3 and stay there until i pH down.

 

[justiceman]

Hmmmmm everything seems to pretty much be in order. Gotta figure out why the PH keeps drifting so fast. I wonder if the rez would stay stable if you added only calmag and the base nutrients.

I think .6EC might still be a little weak for them, but that's hard to say with the one who lost bunch of root mass. I will say that at the beginning of the post they looked greener and you had them at 1.0EC

 

[mandalaman]

Hmmmmm everything seems to pretty much be in order. Gotta figure out why the PH keeps drifting so fast. I wonder if the rez would stay stable if you added only calmag and the base nutrients.

I think .6EC might still be a little weak for them, but that's hard to say with the one who lost bunch of root mass. I will say that at the beginning of the post they looked greener and you had them at 1.0EC

What are your thoughts on a Foliar ?

 

[justiceman]

I haven't done too many foliar sprays myself but I'd say it's worth a shot.

 

[DrMcSkunkins]

2 tablespoons of epsom salts per gallon of water for foliar spray, I doubt it would help since its a root problem. Have you scoped your roots with a 100x or better scope for root aphids?

 

[mandalaman]

2 tablespoons of epsom salts per gallon of water for foliar spray, I doubt it would help since its a root problem. Have you scoped your roots with a 100x or better scope for root aphids?

No - but I started a tea brew last night. Will check the roots tonight. Will 40x be enough to see them?

Should I clear the Rez and add the tea the plain RO water, or can i add the tea to existing Rez mix?

My thinking was if they are having trouble uptaking nutes through the roots because of recent root trauma (removing the rotted rock wool) that I could feed them Foliarly. Is that not the case? Faulty logic? Thanks @DrMcSkunkins :)

 

[DrMcSkunkins]

No - but I started a tea brew last night. Will check the roots tonight. Will 40x be enough to see them?

Should I clear the Rez and add the tea the plain RO water, or can i add the tea to existing Rez mix?

My thinking was if they are having trouble uptaking nutes through the roots because of recent root trauma (removing the rotted rock wool) that I could feed them Foliarly. Is that not the case? Faulty logic? Thanks @DrMcSkunkins :)

You will need 60x minimum, 100x works alot better

 

[mandalaman]

You will need 60x minimum, 100x works alot better

Ok, thanks. Wonder if I can find one at a target/Home Depot... working late tonight grow shops will be closed.

Any thoughts on the tea?

 

[DrMcSkunkins]

Weekly teas are great, just make sure to ph everthing right b4 using it because ph can change overnight.

 

[mandalaman]

Tea helped, root growth exploded on the bigger one. Little guy hanging in there.

I have a sneaking suspicion part of problem is Ca and Manganese deficiency. My pH had been drifting (runnning) to above 6.0 (even higher with the tea but I'll keep it in check)) so it could be locking them out. It's displaying some classic signs of both... any thoughts @DrMcSkunkins @Seamaiden @justiceman ? :)

Also, I've been diluting the pH down prior to adding to Rez. It's going to be a good amount I'll need to add to keep it below 6 while the tea bennies do their thing. Again root growth is exploding. Do I have to worry about adding too much pH down and once the bacteria die off will I get a pH plummet? Any advice on keeping pH in check without draining the Rez? I'll drain it and clean them Sunday probably. @Capulator

Thanks everyone. Really appreciate any guidance or wisdom you are willing to share.

Much Love

 

[mandalaman]

pH rose from 5.8->6.2 in about 6-7 hours. I pH back down. Going to change Rez maybe tomorrow night.

Also some close ups of the leaf damage occurring/occurred on the bigger one.

 

[justiceman]

I'd say with that tea it's pretty much impossible to keep the PH in check aside from the frequent addition of ph down like you have been doing. Those microbes are just going to keep raising the ph. Honestly I don't think teas belong in DWC but I have absolutely no experience in DWC to back up that claim so who knows. That being said. It's great to hear there was some root growth.

If I were to make a move I would do the following:
dump the rez
clean everything as best I could
refill with R/O

Then I would add ONLY CalMag + Base Nutrients to somewhere around .6-1.0EC(300-500ppm) just to see what happens. I'd assume running only the base nutrients and calmag alone should be far more ph stable.

 

[mandalaman]

I'd say with that tea it's pretty much impossible to keep the PH in check aside from the frequent addition of ph down like you have been doing. Those microbes are just going to keep raising the ph. Honestly I don't think teas belong in DWC but I have absolutely no experience in DWC to back up that claim so who knows. That being said. It's great to hear there was some root growth.

If I were to make a move I would do the following:
dump the rez
clean everything as best I could
refill with R/O

Then I would add ONLY CalMag + Base Nutrients to somewhere around .6-1.0EC(300-500ppm) just to see what happens. I'd assume running only the base nutrients and calmag alone should be far more ph stable.

Excellent. Tomorrow or Sunday I will be doing just that.

Reading about Cappys Benny's and this thread as well as a thread by sKully were the main motivators.

https://www.420magazine.com/forums/deep-water-culture-dwc/184191-tea-bag-your-dwc.html

 

[Capulator]

Are these the same plants in the entire thread? It takes plants a week to recover from lockout. It seems to me that you are just over correcting back and forth and back and forth. If it were me I would start over with new plants at this point. You are wasting a lot of time trying to bring these back from the dead. Base nutes at 1.0 EC is good. If you use compost tea keep it simple and only add 1 cup of tea per gallons with no additional carb source in the system.

The azamax you put onthe roots made things worse I guarantee. You oiled and suffocated them. The peppermint sprays too. You stressed the plant mroe when it was already stressed out. If you are gonna foliar anything stick to a little kelp to help them through.

Also, rockwool and growstones is a horrible combo. You haev to water hte grow stones too much and the rockwool stays too wet. I had my best results in DWC with 50/50 coco perlite, top fed until the roots hit the water and then no more top feeding. Roots will wick water up plenty.

 

[hermit186]

This is one of my just for my 2 cents if your using and air pump the air your pumping into your reservoir is effecting your ph and almost always raises your PH. I use a high dollar air filter and I cut it into a box and tape it (ya duck tape) into a surround that air pump with a filter you will see the difference. If there is traffic thru the grow area the dust and other stuff in your grow area is sucked into the little filter in the bottom of the pump.
I have a box twice as big as my filter I put the pump and filter in the box and surround the outside with activated charcoal. I change it every 6 months. For the record I am crazy and not all my stuff works but this one dose. I only add air to the reservoir for one hour before I water I also have a fountain pump in my reservoir and it runs for 15 min every 2 hrs.
I use drip to drain

 

[hermit186]

Are these the same plants in the entire thread? It takes plants a week to recover from lockout. It seems to me that you are just over correcting back and forth and back and forth. If it were me I would start over with new plants at this point. You are wasting a lot of time trying to bring these back from the dead. Base nutes at 1.0 EC is good. If you use compost tea keep it simple and only add 1 cup of tea per gallons with no additional carb source in the system.

The azamax you put onthe roots made things worse I guarantee. You oiled and suffocated them. The peppermint sprays too. You stressed the plant mroe when it was already stressed out. If you are gonna foliar anything stick to a little kelp to help them through.

Also, rockwool and growstones is a horrible combo. You haev to water hte grow stones too much and the rockwool stays too wet. I had my best results in DWC with 50/50 coco perlite, top fed until the roots hit the water and then no more top feeding. Roots will wick water up plenty.

I use the course coco and fine coco 1/3 course in the bottom and toped off with 2/3 fine. I don't use perlite any more but have in the past. I also re use my coco I cut up the root balls and look at them then dry the coco out and screen it to get dead roots out. To separate the fine from course. I use old kiddy pools I then add a micro to the pile and let stand after a coupla months I put black plastic over the pool and the sun bakes the coco.
Then I put the course coco in my garden and I reuse the fine 1/2 old and 1/2 new.
Your numbers read like a calculator they should be very consistence.
Be very careful with peppermint if you add the wrong saturator (soap) to the mixture you will add the chemistry to soften your skin the girls don't like it it plugs the pores your plants breath with.

 

[mandalaman]

Are these the same plants in the entire thread? It takes plants a week to recover from lockout. It seems to me that you are just over correcting back and forth and back and forth. If it were me I would start over with new plants at this point. You are wasting a lot of time trying to bring these back from the dead. Base nutes at 1.0 EC is good. If you use compost tea keep it simple and only add 1 cup of tea per gallons with no additional carb source in the system.

The azamax you put onthe roots made things worse I guarantee. You oiled and suffocated them. The peppermint sprays too. You stressed the plant mroe when it was already stressed out. If you are gonna foliar anything stick to a little kelp to help them through.

Also, rockwool and growstones is a horrible combo. You haev to water hte grow stones too much and the rockwool stays too wet. I had my best results in DWC with 50/50 coco perlite, top fed until the roots hit the water and then no more top feeding. Roots will wick water up plenty.

Thanks for replying @Capulator. Yes! That sounds pretty spot on. Back and forth, back and forth. Impatience and overcomplicating have been detrimental to the plants! Part of me though doesn't want to give up, I feel there could be some lessons learned in trying to keep them alive. Maybe I am wrong? It's not about the time as I thoroughly enjoy it. And I'm in no rush for the final product. Is there a reason aside from that which I should consider tossing them?

I won't use Azamax anymore, and I have tossed the essential oil mix. The rockwool was no good for me, the clones came in the rockwool cubes. They are now both out of the rockwool. I took some clones from the bigger of the two a few days ago. Good to know on the 50/50 coco/perlite medium. I will try that next run in the buckets. Right now they are in the netpot bare with rocks.

Thanks for the advice!!

Here's a pic of the one that's doing better. I took cuttings a few days before this picture.

 

[justiceman]

@Seamaiden so this has happened since removing rock wool. Also, pH will rise to 6.2/6.3 no matter how often I pH down to 5.5-5.8. Usually stays at 6.2/6.3 for 24hrs plus.

View attachment 651128 View attachment 651129 View attachment 651130

If that's the same plant that is in this post it is looking much better. Did you just do calmag and base nutes in a new rez?