Lowering PH

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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Really? "most often (not always) there is no need to ph your nutrients for soil."
the nutrients I use drop the ph substantially like a full point in a gallon of my water to well bellow 6.00 am I wasting my time and money using ph up? and Down I thought ph problems were the root cause of 90% of beginners problems and now you say it doesn't matter in soil? Does Pro-Mix grow medium count as soil? Did I get that in the wrong context?
Like @MIMedGrower said ph down like lemon juice and citric acid break down fast. They don't continue to buffer you soil. Your soil should be built to buffer your water. Like I said though high alkalinity water will change the ph if the soil over time. But with RO no need and most tap water is fine.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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In my planted tanks I used to use a substrate call aquasoil. It was a clay/peat based pellet. It would hold the water in my tanks a full 1.0ph lower than out of my tap for over a year. You could tell when the the soil was exhausted cause the ph would start rising. There was always varying accounts of how long it lasted because people had different source waters that would exhaust it buffering capacity at different rates.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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In terms of amending soils I can't help ya... hydro no problem but maybe @oldskol4evr @MIMedGrower @Jimster @Dirtbag could. Like I say it not always the case but personally I feel soil growers are mislead to think they always have to.
 
oldskol4evr

oldskol4evr

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In terms of amending soils I can't help ya... hydro no problem but maybe @oldskol4evr @MIMedGrower @Jimster @Dirtbag could. Like I say it not always the case but personally I feel soil growers are mislead to think they always have to.
i havent read all the 4 pages bro,but did you ask if they did a slurry test on soil to start,i think you pretty much covered how to hold ph in water,i tried all kind of stuff to get good water in the city,mine now in country is very alkaline i use asorbic acid to drop it when i feed only,if it stays there dont know,but with the cloramine and clorine in the city i would make 33 gal at a time and next day it was still same as i left it,i feed my whole outside garden with it in triple digits,if it worked i couldnt really say cause the heat was a big factor and all the privacy fencing around me didnt leave much room for polluted air hahahah,here i use the KNF feeds i made and add right to the alkaline water,i think since every thing is fermented is why i have no problems ,dont know,im thinking along the lines of what you wrote about phospric acid was a better choice and plans for my 250 gal IBC tote down in bottom garden is gonna be a rule of thumb if i ever finish rebuilding every thing hahaah,you are completly right about amends though,when cooked in the soil it does buffer it,as of now thats all i have done and got 3 great harvest from the gardens this year which scares me about rebuilding all boxs and beds hahahah
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Really? "most often (not always) there is no need to ph your nutrients for soil."
the nutrients I use drop the ph substantially like a full point in a gallon of my water to well bellow 6.00 am I wasting my time and money using ph up? and Down I thought ph problems were the root cause of 90% of beginners problems and now you say it doesn't matter in soil? Does Pro-Mix grow medium count as soil? Did I get that in the wrong context?
Also I think the ph causing most new growers problems is not caused by the ph of the nutrients added but the excess of nutrients built up from overfeeding or root problems that cause the soil ph to drop. Like you said when you add nutrients the ph drops so when they build up in the soil the exceed the buffering capacity and crash the soil ph
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

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Really? "most often (not always) there is no need to ph your nutrients for soil."
the nutrients I use drop the ph substantially like a full point in a gallon of my water to well bellow 6.00 am I wasting my time and money using ph up? and Down I thought ph problems were the root cause of 90% of beginners problems and now you say it doesn't matter in soil? Does Pro-Mix grow medium count as soil? Did I get that in the wrong context?


Pro mix has the correct amount of lime to buffer the medium back to about 6.3.

Depending on your waters mineral content there may be no need to ph adjust. The lime in the soil brings it back up quickly.

With the range staying 6-7ph i would not adjust. Every time you ad ph up it is like adding a little more lime. Over time this can raise the ph out of range.

Same with acid. If unneeded eventually it can lower the soil ph to far.

Production greenhouses dont usually add acid even to very hard water. They mix with ro filtered water down to 150 ppm for best results.

Your water ph is 7 i think you said but how many ppm’s (ec at .5) mineral content in your water?
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

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Also I think the ph causing most new growers problems is not caused by the ph of the nutrients added but the excess of nutrients built up from overfeeding or root problems that cause the soil ph to drop. Like you said when you add nutrients the ph drops so when they build up in the soil the exceed the buffering capacity and crash the soil ph



This^^^^^^
 
Jimster

Jimster

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Really? "most often (not always) there is no need to ph your nutrients for soil."
the nutrients I use drop the ph substantially like a full point in a gallon of my water to well bellow 6.00 am I wasting my time and money using ph up? and Down I thought ph problems were the root cause of 90% of beginners problems and now you say it doesn't matter in soil? Does Pro-Mix grow medium count as soil? Did I get that in the wrong context?
Promix has buffers built into it, which will try to offset the tendency for fertilizers to lower the Ph. I grow in Promix and I really can't say that I've ever had a Ph problem.... and you are correct in most new growers stumble on Ph and overfeeding. Most tap water is close to neutral in Ph, and shouldn't cause issues and can actually benefit the plants by supplying magnesium and other minerals. The key is "most" tap water, not all. If your Ph is excessively high in your water, you can either filter it (RO), distill it, or lower the Ph. I add wood ashes to help the buffering even more, but that isn't a necessity, just some minor nutrients and buffering to keep Ph in the correct zone (which it does on it's own for the most part). With my use of Promix, I only feed every two weeks on average, so I don't use a ton of nutrients to lower my Ph too much. Using a lot of nutrients will lower your Ph more than the occasional feeding. A lot depends on your method of growing.
 
PipeCarver

PipeCarver

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Promix has buffers built into it, which will try to offset the tendency for fertilizers to lower the Ph. I grow in Promix and I really can't say that I've ever had a Ph problem.... and you are correct in most new growers stumble on Ph and overfeeding. Most tap water is close to neutral in Ph, and shouldn't cause issues and can actually benefit the plants by supplying magnesium and other minerals. The key is "most" tap water, not all. If your Ph is excessively high in your water, you can either filter it (RO), distill it, or lower the Ph. I add wood ashes to help the buffering even more, but that isn't a necessity, just some minor nutrients and buffering to keep Ph in the correct zone (which it does on it's own for the most part). With my use of Promix, I only feed every two weeks on average, so I don't use a ton of nutrients to lower my Ph too much. Using a lot of nutrients will lower your Ph more than the occasional feeding. A lot depends on your method of growing.
Well I grew for years without worrying about ph problems. I was having issues like everyone does and thought when I heard about this ph stuff I'd better get on the band wagon... so I did... bought the up/down a ph tester and thought that would do it, I'd grow perfect bud now every time all my problems were behind me..... Well that didn't work. Still have issues of one thing or another but now I add chemicals to mix to get around a 6.50 ph+- cause that's what I've been led to believe will solve all my problems.lol
 
Evil Monkey

Evil Monkey

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I’ve used vinegar in the past in hydro. The problem was the drastic swings in my rig. It got the ph down but by the next day it would be way higher. Plants hated those swings. I have been looking into alternatives since I hate the manufacturer. thanks @Aqua Man
 
PipeCarver

PipeCarver

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I’ve used vinegar in the past in hydro. The problem was the drastic swings in my rig. It got the ph down but by the next day it would be way higher. Plants hated those swings. I have been looking into alternatives since I hate the manufacturer. thanks @Aqua Man
Hi, it's not really the cost of the acid, I paid $15 Canadian ( about $2 US) for a pint. I use 1-3 drops at a time when needed it should last me 10+ years so wtf. I'd really have to be cheap to debate the pros and cons when were talking pennies. Now if 1 or the other is drastically a better product for my grow then I'm all ears but if not meh.

Now if I was in a pinch and had no alternative then vinegar would work fine too I guess and in about 10 years I'll see whats on the shelf.
 
Evil Monkey

Evil Monkey

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Hi, it's not really the cost of the acid, I paid $15 Canadian ( about $2 US) for a pint. I use 1-3 drops at a time when needed it should last me 10+ years so wtf. I'd really have to be cheap to debate the pros and cons when were talking pennies. Now if 1 or the other is drastically a better product for my grow then I'm all ears but if not meh.

Huh.. what are u going on about? Debate what?
 
Madbud

Madbud

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Bottom line in my very humble opinion about soil is that it needs to be amended by pine needles, manure, lime or whatever. Adding acid to feedings is like patching a leak, it works but its just a patch. Of course you get wild swings, the soil would need to be dried for a slurry test otherwise the acidic liquid skews the result.
 
BudBogart

BudBogart

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I grow in soil. I use about 300 gallons of water every time I water the plants. I couldn’t possibly amend that much water. What I do is build the soil and test the slurry ph of the soil made with my water. I amend the soil, not the water, until I am satisfied. Once the soil has been built to work with my water I don’t have to worry about it anymore.
 
Bobrown14

Bobrown14

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Why doesn't the OP just let his water sit out for several hours. Guaranteed his pH drops down to where he wants it. No need for chemicals.
 
Beachwalker

Beachwalker

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My tap pH is 8.9 so I prefer to adjust it even with all the Dolomite I use I'm running out of GH probably this weekend and I'm sick of buying GH products so I'll probably go with vinegar until I decide if I'm going to go with lemon juice or have citric acid delivered, I suspect the latter might be my best option
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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My tap pH is 8.9 so I prefer to adjust it even with all the Dolomite I use I'm running out of GH probably this weekend and I'm sick of buying GH products so I'll probably go with vinegar until I decide if I'm going to go with lemon juice or have citric acid delivered, I suspect the latter might be my best option
Could cut down on the dolomite to compensate for your hard water. Dolomite will raise your soil ph. If you have hard water you won't need much.
 
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