Mass Cloning Help Needed

[ColasQueen]

Here is how I clone….
I use a T-5 over my domes, 2-blue/2-green. Seems to work much better than the fluorescent “grow” lights I had before and easier to control the inside temperture unlike using a 250 or 400 above them. Heating mats are a *must*  I've had no luck whatsoever with the rock wool or rapid rooters, got either too wet or too dry on me. Could never find that happy medium.
I switched to old school peat pots (pellets - add water and they expand) – these work like a charm for me, I swear by them and I now have a 98% success rate where before I was lucky to come out with a meager 25% success rate.
I soak the pellets until they are completely saturated; I then put (6 at a time) in a tea towel and swing it around 4 times to get out the excess water (do outside!!)- every time this leaves them in the perfect "moist" state for cloning. If you try and squeeze them to get the excess water out, I think it compacts too much; I never had success doing that. I only use rootone powder on clones (use a good inch or two of it up the steam, can’t have too much!!), and spray both sides of the leaves with anti-wilt. Pre make the hole in whatever you are using as a cloning medium (rockwool/peat pots etc) and put your clone in ensuring not to rub off the powder as you do it. I also cut all the leaves on the clone ½ way off, leaving whole leaves tend to kill them.
I then spray the peat pellet until just the outside is wet morning and night, usually starting on day 2/3 as I find they are moist enough for the first couple of days and just need leave misting. My dome is completely closed (with a 5 minute open air break for the clones) for the first 4-5 days. I then half vent the dome for the next day or so, and then off with the dome. Misting every morning and night.
I usually have some solid roots starting to poke out around days 8-11, I’ve had some take up to 15 days to root!
Ciao-
CQ

 

[negative 1]

peat pucks? thatw what i use and nearly always have a 100% success rate. all you do is soak em in ph'ed water till they are sopping wet. first off though i always only take one plant out at a time and have 2 cups filled with phed water ready for them to go into. i take cuttings an inch longer than i need them <leaving about a two to three inch clone> first i cut the top set of leaves in half to make sure water keeps moving through the plant then i put two inches of them stem under water and cut off the inch i dont need so i know that it sucks up water. then i put them in the other cup of phed water <properly labeled> and move onto the next plant. i soak them for about 3 hours then dip them in rootone and place in the peat pucks. place these directly under t-5 fluoros with the lid on the greenhouse. i only spray when there is no humidity and i don't use a heat mat. when the pucks get 70 % dry i water from the bottom amd then drain out whatever the plants don't soak up. leave the lid off for a couple of hours a day and like a glove they root damn near 100% everytime. hope you develop a method that works for you!

 

[ColasQueen]

you got it negative 1 -I just love them peat pucks, I tried to water them from the bottom - but I couldn't get a consistent level of moisture in all of them and starting loosing many to root rot or drying out. :sad0123:
Thus - I touch each of them every day - they like the vibe as well :sun2:

I spend quite a bit of time each day with them for the first two weeks *wink* - they seem to enjoy listening to jazz as well, what can I say - LOL:party0023:
Ciao-
CQ

 

[negative 1]

i was saying peat pucks? like ther was no other option for a good success rate everytime....

 

[smoke1sun]

Well maybe NOOBS should be tryin to supply clubs, patients or co-ops with clones UNTIL he KNOWs wtf hes doing....just my opinion....bro not tryin to start shit...

We all gotta start somewhere right. You got any suggestions to get this guy to his goal?

 

[urbanite420]

And YOUR the clone supllier!!!! i feel bad foir them patients and coops

LOL!!

But seriously, take a horticultural propagation class, if you can find one for free, great (but Mt SAC is the best). You'll learn the right way to take cuttings. I've seen so many people take cuttings the wrong way.

I think you're spraying/watering way too much. When I clone I don't add any additional water unless I see the medium starting to dry or the cuttings wilt. I never need to add water because my cloning chamber (i know u all have seen my lil ghetto ass chamber at home, but no ones seen the big setup at my office) is a closed system and the water for the most part stays in the system. All it is is a cutting tray with a big lid, like what everyone has.

I use clonex as the hormone and sometimes rockwool, sometimes oasis...depends... but if I have to water the cube its a light clonex solution. No vitamins or any other shit it doesnt need it. The cutting should be as thick as you can let it be so it has plenty of stored carbs to fuel the rooting process. the cutting at this point needs the hormones to root root properly. Shake excess water out of your medium, especially if rockwool 2 or 3 times, so the cutting can breath. Make sure that the entire surface of the gelled cutting is in contact with the solid medium - this is actually one of the biggest causes of failure in inexperienced growers. Cut just below the node at 45 degree angle and gel from there up to about a centimeter or two, depending on how deep the rooting medium is. 14 day max for me, for even the hardest rooters (ie OGs). Good luck.

 

[Xceptional]

Well maybe NOOBS should be tryin to supply clubs, patients or co-ops with clones UNTIL he KNOWs wtf hes doing....just my opinion....bro not tryin to start shit...

yeah real shit i agree i do not look for shit either but i just feel like we need to embrace new growers and their enthusiasm and maybe tell him to pump their brakes when they get ahead of their self but dogging him or making him feel inferior or stupid just has no benefit IMO besides making others laugh at his expense.

growing takes at least 3 months, cloning takes under 3 weeks. you can practice many more times on cloning until you get it right and then be able to provide them to clubs. if you clone perpetual like every week within 10 weeks you have probably cloned 10 different times and tried many different ways. by that point you should be really comfortable and good at cloning. if you were trying to grow in that amount of time you would not even have had a single harvest and that harvest would probably not be of club quality.

 

[SkyHi]

I wasn't taking low blows at the op, I was being quite honest , it sucks when you get bunk clones at a club and waste your time. I'm not a terminal patient or severly sick like some people who depend on it even more. Goodluck OP get your cloning down good and don't sell anything you wouldnt buy once you ruin your rep at club there's no going back.

 

[Farmer Jon]

Constructive criticism is much more beneficial than insults to all parties involved. For one it makes you look like an ass and makes the insulted look silly, not helpful at all. I typically would not even involve myself in this type of situation but i feel that maybe if enough people let you all know how unsympathetic you sound then maybe you would take the time to think before you speak/type. (WE ARE ALL HERE LEARNING RIGHT?) there is no need to bash others for seeking information. (the only stupid question is the one that has not been asked)<<<3rd grade i learned that.
So with that said here is how i take clones with great success for many years now:
you will need rockwool cubes 1x1 unwraped, olivias cloning solution, dip and grow, propigation trays w/ lids, 1 mister bottle, ph down, base nutrients, heating mat, t5 or fluorescent lighting, razor blades, ph meter/test drops and patience.
1: soak cubes in a solution of 3/4 cup of olivias and 1/4 strength base nutes @ a ph of 5.0. (the acidity will help with rockwool, ORANGE if you just have a test kit)
2:arange the cubes so that there are 40 in a standard propigation tray.
3:mix the dip and grow for woody cuttings. (may seem strong but it works well)
4:take cuttings from the tops of branches (and on down if needed) as big or small as you desire (no 3 ft. cuttings wont fit man!) 2-6 in. will do.
5:bunch the top of the cutting up a bit and cut off 1/2 of the leaf (careful not to cut the terminal bud) and any water leaves or branches below the top two internodes.
6:dip the cutting 1 in. into the dip and grow and stir for 10 sec.
7:stick the cutting into the rockwool and gently squeeze the wool around it. (pushing down on the top of the cube if needed)
8:mist with pure r/o water every 10-15 cuttings to keep them hydrated.
9:cover with humidome. (close the vents)
10:remove humidome and mist 1 time per day for the first 48 hours (thats 2 days...lol) with pure r/o water
11:make sure cubes never dry out. Water every other day or as needed (with the same solution used in pre soak @ a ph of 5.6)
12:remove humidome and air out trays every day for a min. or so (if leaves start to yellow it is too humid open vents or prop up tray lids a bit now)
13:If things are going good at around day 7-10 you will notice the stems/stalks of the clone swelling and splitting and the leaves may start to yellow a bit (feeding on themselfs)
14:at this point you are almost there and may even have a few rooting out the cube. Prop the lids a bit and pay attn. to how hydrated they are you may need to mist them with 1/4 strength base nutes to give them the energy they need to become plants! (if you see them drooping MIST THEM!!!!)
15:at around day 10-14 depending on the strain ofcoarse you will have clones showing roots. I find that it is less stressful to transplant them at this point rather than waiting for full on root development to do so. Seeing as you are letting go of them and not flowering them out i would sudgest letting them go untill they have a visable root structure befor distribution. However i would also sudgest giving them a mist or two while acclimating to the less humid enviroment of the world. (without the dome on them after day 10-14)
My rules of cloning: Never leave standing water in trays, (i cut small hole in the bottom of trays for proper drainage) air out every day, remove any underachieving or sick (moldy) cuttings, always wash hands after using the restroom, never rush a clone job and a heating mat is a good thing.
There are many ways people make clones of there favorite plant but this is my way and it works great for me. I hope my words have helped in some small fashion.
I wish you all the success you desire my friend and i hope i have been at least a bit helpful.
P.s. hope your pumping strains from THCBAY to the clubs, most of them could use some real genetics and dont forget to label them correctly the breeders deserve their credit they have earned it.
Farmer Jon

 

[Dubwobble]

The most important thing is to use healthy moms.
*Oh yah, did I mention that you really need healthy moms!

=)

Always use fresh materials (plastic cups, razor blades, cloning trays). Pour your cloning gel or whatever you use into something you can clean out or through away. Don't dip your clones directly into the bottle of solution, you can contaminate the whole batch with one bad clone.

If you have fungus gnats than you are gonna have problems. Their favorite food is fresh tender young roots. The will plant eggs directly into your cloning medium. They are a major cause of clone failure. If you see one then there are 100's.

Use r/o water or distilled water from the grocery store.

Also, you should be dipping your medium into the ph'd water with a root stimulator, not pouring it over them. Watering from below promotes downward root growth and provides oxygen as the medium dries out.

Like mentioned above, make sure you have a really tight fit into your medium. I don't poke my clones into whatever hole is pre-made in the medium, I always poke them directly into the medium to give them a tighter fit.

To combat your clones going yellow, do this... As soon as you notice the first couple babies roots showing, add 1ml to 2.5ml of a basic nutrient solution. Or if you use a 3-part nute, use 1ml of each part along with the root stimulator you already use. Continue this until re-planted. You will actually see the clones start growing after a bit =)

Don't spray anything on them. Cover them with the see-through hoods for the first 3-4 days. It will keep them from wilting as well as creating enough humidity for propagation.

Make sure the top covers are closed so they are pretty much air tight. After 3 days take the dome covers off and let the babies breath for 5 minutes. Then put the top right back on. You can open the air intakes on the hoods now, it will get them use to dry air. On the On the 4th day take the dome off for 30 minutes. On the 5th day you can take the hoods off for good and the babies should stay upright without wilting.

You shouldn't need any heating mat if you are keeping the clones in a house that stays warm. If the temperature in the room gets cold at all (like a basement, or a garage, or an outdoor storage), then you will need the heating mats. Alternativley you can use a heater, the room should be between 65 and 85. The periphery of veg. rooms is a great warm place to keep them until ready btw.

If you'd like I can send you a detailed step by step with the methods I use. Just PM me. I'd rather not name specific brands or favorite mediums because it seems like people will just attack me if i get too specific.

:fighting0085:

 

[urbanite420]

i like your detail Framer Jon.

dont take my laughs serious, i've fucked up plenty of times so don't sweat. there's a pretty quick and steep learning curve when you're producing, so keep at it an you'll b fine, as long as you can afford to "learn"

 

[cali-grown]

yeah real shit i agree i do not look for shit either but i just feel like we need to embrace new growers and their enthusiasm and maybe tell him to pump their brakes when they get ahead of their self but dogging him or making him feel inferior or stupid just has no benefit IMO besides making others laugh at his expense.

growing takes at least 3 months, cloning takes under 3 weeks. you can practice many more times on cloning until you get it right and then be able to provide them to clubs. if you clone perpetual like every week within 10 weeks you have probably cloned 10 different times and tried many different ways. by that point you should be really comfortable and good at cloning. if you were trying to grow in that amount of time you would not even have had a single harvest and that harvest would probably not be of club quality.

Ive actually been growing for about a year now and i will gladly tell you my stuff is club quality. We are seasoned growers, but not cloners. thats why when we shut down out flower room and turned it into a mother room, it was a little rough for us. we're new to cloning, not growing haha.

but thanks for all the advice.. this shit helps alot!

 

[TortureKill]

I think its imperative for growers to learn to root in soil before trying anything else. It takes practice, but once u get it, its nothing. I was lucky and never had problems rooting cuttings. I stick with what works. I root right into a real fine promix medium. I use the real small 1" square cardboard like pots. I can fit 40-45 of these into one tray. I dont use tray covers, I just put plastic baggies over my cuttings. I remove the bag after 7 days. I usually have roots coming out the bottom in a week. I let the medium dry out real nice, before watering again, then water with a real diluted solution of Hygrozyme. I get 100% strike rate everytime, I rarely lose one or two, but keep in mind I root hundreds at a time. My clones are very healthy.
Good luck man, and my advice is to go back to the basics. Try a diff medium, diff solution, and find out what works best for you.

Personally, I use: ProMix (light seedling, and cutting mix), DipNGrow Rooting Solution, and hygrozyme with a light N fert after 10 days of cutting.
I use regular 4 ft flouros, and I have 3 tiered shelving. Keep the medium very moist and warm.

TK

 

[slimjoint]

tried cutting at a 45 angle?

 

[strawD]

cut your branches at least 1/2"-1" longer than you need, and put them in a big 2 gallon zip lock bag in the salad drawer of your fridge. leave them there at least over night, but they'll be okay for up to a week or more with full vigor if you open the bag an breath fresh co2 in every day. if you chill them at least over night before recutting(under water, 45angle) it helps your % in whatever medium you use. it might be nice to root in more than 1 medium, not everyone grows the same. rockwool and rapid rooters are very versatiel though. the local clinic here roots in an eazy cloner and then when they get roots they stick them in a styro cup of dirt and give them out without even keeping them a few days under lights to adjust to the soil. most patients want dirt, but if you want hydro then yo uhave to wash the dirt off and thats going to stress the plant again, another transplant and stressing thats not necissary if it started hydro and thats what they wanted.

 

[cali-grown]

here is what i have left of what i havent smoked or sold of my last harvest:


SFV OG KUSH

http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture051.jpg
http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture043.jpg
http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture045.jpg

KUSHAGE OG KUSH

http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture039.jpg
http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture042.jpg
http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture040.jpg

PRE '98 BUBBA KUSH

http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture035.jpg
http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture038.jpg
http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture037.jpg

RASCAL OG KUSH

http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture034.jpg
http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture031.jpg
http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture033.jpg
http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture032.jpg


AN OVER ALL LOOK AS OF 05/07/10

http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture047.jpg
http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture050.jpg
http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture049.jpg
http://i166.invalid.com/albums/u91/psychojon/Room/Picture051.jpg

 

[Cat Jockey]

First of all, in a country that is pushing double digit unemployment, I personally am not going to jump somebodies ass for trying to make a living, especially when they are asking for growing help on a growing site.

But that is just me.

This pic is a tray of 72, mixed strains, rapid rooters, 7-8 days off the vine. Mothers were okay, but not tip top shape.

1. Healthy mothers.

For your mothers, you are way low on light for commercial clone production. Tell us more about your space, more importantly how big a space ya got?

These dirt plants were in 1 gallon pots 1.5-2 months ago (poor little girl on the bottom right had a floor fan spin around on her for a day, hence the brown tips). They were actually about to get tossed into the fireplace as I had regenerated new hydro mums, so spent a month in very low light, very dry soil, merely kept alive and damn near dead until hydro mums were guaranteed established.

Then another door opened and another bank presented himself and these ladies got a new lease on life. There is about 50 strains in that room.

Point being, these are small mothers. I am barely able to pull 200-300 every 7-10 off of these 15 dirters and keep them growing up to a size they need to be. Cuttings from those dirt plants are finding their way into a 50 bucket mother system next week, but that is another story ...

Excuse the mess in the temporarily pieced together and still under construction room.

Search for some good 4000 - 10,000 watt SOG grows on the web and take a look at their mothers. It will give you an idea of what is needed to produce 200+ clones per week.

2. Stable environment.

High 70's. That tray was on a heat mat with a thermostat. Do not use a heat mat without a thermostat. Less than $40.00 and worth every penny. I am using the mat, as the room is not finished and the temps drop more than I want in the veg room during LO. High 70's. Room humidity doesn't matter much if you use a dome.

3. Proper media moisture content. An easy one to fuck up. Those RR should be kept at about the same moisture content as when you pull them out of the bag. For my situation, this means adding a bit of water to them every 3-4 days. Keeping them too wet is bad.

One of the most common errors beginning dirt farmers make is overwatering. Same for cloning.

Your situation:

Chill the fuck out with all of your spraying. Chill the fuck out with all of your spraying. Chill the fuck out with all of your spraying. Chill the fuck out with all of your spraying. Chill the fuck out with all of your spraying.

1) Plants wilt like normal, but seem to break right in the rapid rooters and never grow back
2) some of the clones just disintigrate. i have no idea why. the just get light green, fall over and when you tought the stock it just falls apart like mush. (around day 5)

You got shit too wet bro, media wise. Getting some rot, etc. To dry a clone, the stem goes rigid with the growth tip bending over 180 degrees. To wet and the stem turns too mush, especially below the media. Continual spraying with nutes can exacerbate this problem.

Did I mention to chill the fuck out with your spraying? ;)

3) of the clones that DO live they have been super light green and yellow at leave edges

Couple things about this. Firstly, the rapid rooters. The tray I posted has a 72 cell tray and I using the RR sheet of 98, versus the round, larger plugs that come in the bags of 50, but same diff. After I cut the sheet up I soak them in a Clonex solution. Squeeze the plugs like a sponge.

Viola! Instant rapid rooter with nutes. I also give them a spray with DM Penatrator and whatever cloning nute I have around when I first load the tray, but that is it. People do spray more, but you have too much moisture going on, so you are hurting yourself. Spray when you load the tray and then no more. Last thing is cut the leaves. Butcher dem beotches. Two reasons. Less foilage to compound your MSS (Mushy Stem Syndrome). Secondly, you will get a little less yellowing.

4) our rapid rooters are moist on top but bone dry on bottom ... we DONT put any water in the bottom of the trays below the clones, maybe thats an issue? and the temp does get a little high sometimes

Yes. Put water in the bottom of the tray. Humidity for the bottom of your rooters. Water is a must if you use a heating mat.

Helathy mothers and proper environment.

 

[fractaLz]

Constructive criticism is much more beneficial than insults to all parties involved. For one it makes you look like an ass and makes the insulted look silly, not helpful at all. I typically would not even involve myself in this type of situation but i feel that maybe if enough people let you all know how unsympathetic you sound then maybe you would take the time to think before you speak/type. (WE ARE ALL HERE LEARNING RIGHT?) there is no need to bash others for seeking information. (the only stupid question is the one that has not been asked)<<<3rd grade i learned that.
So with that said here is how i take clones with great success for many years now:
you will need rockwool cubes 1x1 unwraped, olivias cloning solution, dip and grow, propigation trays w/ lids, 1 mister bottle, ph down, base nutrients, heating mat, t5 or fluorescent lighting, razor blades, ph meter/test drops and patience.
1: soak cubes in a solution of 3/4 cup of olivias and 1/4 strength base nutes @ a ph of 5.0. (the acidity will help with rockwool, ORANGE if you just have a test kit)
2:arange the cubes so that there are 40 in a standard propigation tray.
3:mix the dip and grow for woody cuttings. (may seem strong but it works well)
4:take cuttings from the tops of branches (and on down if needed) as big or small as you desire (no 3 ft. cuttings wont fit man!) 2-6 in. will do.
5:bunch the top of the cutting up a bit and cut off 1/2 of the leaf (careful not to cut the terminal bud) and any water leaves or branches below the top two internodes.
6:dip the cutting 1 in. into the dip and grow and stir for 10 sec.
7:stick the cutting into the rockwool and gently squeeze the wool around it. (pushing down on the top of the cube if needed)
8:mist with pure r/o water every 10-15 cuttings to keep them hydrated.
9:cover with humidome. (close the vents)
10:remove humidome and mist 1 time per day for the first 48 hours (thats 2 days...lol) with pure r/o water
11:make sure cubes never dry out. Water every other day or as needed (with the same solution used in pre soak @ a ph of 5.6)
12:remove humidome and air out trays every day for a min. or so (if leaves start to yellow it is too humid open vents or prop up tray lids a bit now)
13:If things are going good at around day 7-10 you will notice the stems/stalks of the clone swelling and splitting and the leaves may start to yellow a bit (feeding on themselfs)
14:at this point you are almost there and may even have a few rooting out the cube. Prop the lids a bit and pay attn. to how hydrated they are you may need to mist them with 1/4 strength base nutes to give them the energy they need to become plants! (if you see them drooping MIST THEM!!!!)
15:at around day 10-14 depending on the strain ofcoarse you will have clones showing roots. I find that it is less stressful to transplant them at this point rather than waiting for full on root development to do so. Seeing as you are letting go of them and not flowering them out i would sudgest letting them go untill they have a visable root structure befor distribution. However i would also sudgest giving them a mist or two while acclimating to the less humid enviroment of the world. (without the dome on them after day 10-14)
My rules of cloning: Never leave standing water in trays, (i cut small hole in the bottom of trays for proper drainage) air out every day, remove any underachieving or sick (moldy) cuttings, always wash hands after using the restroom, never rush a clone job and a heating mat is a good thing.
There are many ways people make clones of there favorite plant but this is my way and it works great for me. I hope my words have helped in some small fashion.
I wish you all the success you desire my friend and i hope i have been at least a bit helpful.
P.s. hope your pumping strains from THCBAY to the clubs, most of them could use some real genetics and dont forget to label them correctly the breeders deserve their credit they have earned it.
Farmer Jon

I got a chance to hang with Kyle Kushman and this is pretty much what he does... Except he doesn't use a humidity dome ever.
He also uses a heat mat with temp control, and the first 12 hours the cuttings are taken he sets the temp to 100 degrees. This ensures that everything heats up quickly, and it helps to avoid shock from the rockwool cooling. Then he sets it back to 75 degrees after the 12 hours.
Roots in 7-9 days

 

[cali-grown]

cat jockey, kick as response.. coupled with that and couple other people's ideas ive got most all of it worked out for now.. and i kno my set up looks week sauce fr now, but im getting another light soon, and those mothers are only 2 1/2 weeks old from the worlds smallest clones lol.. but yeah.. im gettin there

thanks for all the help!

 

[Cat Jockey]

and i kno my set up looks week sauce fr now, but im getting another light soon, and those mothers are only 2 1/2 weeks old from the worlds smallest clones lol..

Nowhere to grow but up then. If I would have showed you pics of some of those dirt plants a few years ago, they were still hanging out in a closet, 6" pots, under a 27W CFL. I did the OT1 Bonsai Mum thing for years with some of those plants, feeding a 1000W flower room.

Best of luck.