Mimed’s Perpetual Thread

[Beachwalker]

Ever think the ph down is causing the need for the extra lime?

Its all about balance.

No, because my tap is 100 PPM which is my alkalinity if I'm understanding that article correctly (and I'm probably not) and after I adjust its pH it adds less than 10 PPM

And the new masterblend brings my 8.9 down to 6.4 every time so I'm adding even less pH product overall then before

I'll reread dirtbags article in the morning I'm sure I'm missing something

 

[Aqua Man]

No, because my tap is 100 PPM which is my alkalinity if I'm understanding that article correctly (and I'm probably not) and after I adjust its pH it adds less than 10 PPM

And the new masterblend brings my 8.9 down to 6.4 every time so I'm adding even less pH product overall then before

I'll reread dirtbags article in the morning I'm sure I'm missing something

Your alkalinity is carbonate and bicarbonate which is measured in ppm. Your tap ppm is not made up of all carbonate and bicarbonate. This is where say calcium nitrate at 100 ppm will actually lower ph and not affect alkalinity. Where as 100 ppm of calcium carbonate will raise ph and alkalinity. This is why RO and low carbonate/bicarbonate water sees big ph swings. Alkalinity is the ability to buffer acid it provides stability to ph

 

[Aqua Man]

@Beachwalker if you google your local water report. Look at the carbonate hardness this will be say 30ppm the bicarbonate hardness will always be much lower in relation like 3ppm. Sodium, calcium, magnesium, sulfur, phosphates etc will make up the rest to give you a total of 100ppm now depending on the sources used like calcium carbonate which is very common in water supplies will be the largest contributor. Ergo why you carbonate is high while sources of bicarbonates are not as commonly used. The total of both make up the alkalinity of the water. You could have the same alkalinity with 100ppm water as you do with 300ppm water. It's not the ppm but the alkalinity which is measured in ppm

 

[MIMedGrower]

No, because my tap is 100 PPM which is my alkalinity if I'm understanding that article correctly (and I'm probably not) and after I adjust its pH it adds less than 10 PPM

And the new masterblend brings my 8.9 down to 6.4 every time so I'm adding even less pH product overall then before

I'll reread dirtbags article in the morning I'm sure I'm missing something

I think I can explain simply.

Only the calcium in your 100 ppm water is responsible for alkalinity. They use 150ppm as the ideal water mineral content to ensure the calcium is at least 70ppm.

Your water may be fine to use unadjusted and the fact the master blend brings it down to the perfect ph is another good indicator you need no adjustment.

When you add acid (ph down) it is neutralizing the calcium (the alkalinity) and continued watering the medium with the acid will eventually neutralize more of the buffer in the soil.

Then you need to add lime to bring it back up.

I hope that made sense. Only 250 ppm and up water is recommended to mix with ro or add acid. Because it is likely too hard or allaline. And watering with it would be like adding lime each time. So you neutralize it to 150 ppm to correct.

100 ppm water is not likely to change the ph of the medium just like ro water has no buffer and instantly takes on the ph of the medium or whatever it is mixed with.


Sorry. Didnt mean to go so long.

 

[MIMedGrower]

@Beachwalker if you google your local water report. Look at the carbonate hardness this will be say 30ppm the bicarbonate hardness will always be much lower in relation like 3ppm. Sodium, calcium, magnesium, sulfur, phosphates etc will make up the rest to give you a total of 100ppm now depending on the sources used like calcium carbonate which is very common in water supplies will be the largest contributor. Ergo why you carbonate is high while sources of bicarbonates are not as commonly used. The total of both make up the alkalinity of the water. You could have the same alkalinity with 100ppm water as you do with 300ppm water. It's not the ppm but the alkalinity which is measured in ppm

Man for potting soil the guideline of 150 ppm or .3 ec is plenty. Minor adjistments ever needed from there.

 

[basscaptain]

I forgot you hate simple user friendly reliable rarely hacked I phones and choose complicated poorly designed glichy operating systems.

Good for you!

I guess we don't love the ad's>>>>>> this could ture into a light talk:) LOL

Kill the apple train.... :) lol

good morning sir

 

[MIMedGrower]

I guess we don't love the ad's>>>>>> this could ture into a light talk:) LOL

Kill the apple train.... :) lol

good morning sir

Good mornin’. Nice to see ya.

 

[basscaptain]

No, because my tap is 100 PPM which is my alkalinity if I'm understanding that article correctly (and I'm probably not) and after I adjust its pH it adds less than 10 PPM

And the new masterblend brings my 8.9 down to 6.4 every time so I'm adding even less pH product overall then before

I'll reread dirtbags article in the morning I'm sure I'm missing something

I'm pass lost all ready so, i'm hanging out and will keep my month shut:)

 

[Beachwalker]

Your alkalinity is carbonate and bicarbonate which is measured in ppm. Your tap ppm is not made up of all carbonate and bicarbonate. This is where say calcium nitrate at 100 ppm will actually lower ph and not affect alkalinity. Where as 100 ppm of calcium carbonate will raise ph and alkalinity. This is why RO and low carbonate/bicarbonate water sees big ph swings. Alkalinity is the ability to buffer water it provides stability to ph

Are we getting to the point where I have to find my most recent Water Report from my city LOL because that's where I draw the line!

I'm pass lost all ready so, i'm hanging out and will keep my month shut:)

I'm with you believe me! I'm going to give it all another read after coffee when my brain comes back online

 

[basscaptain]

I think I can explain simply.

Only the calcium in your 100 ppm water is responsible for alkalinity. They use 150ppm as the ideal water mineral content to ensure the calcium is at least 70ppm.

Your water may be fine to use unadjusted and the fact the master blend brings it down to the perfect ph is another good indicator you need no adjustment.

When you add acid (ph down) it is neutralizing the calcium (the alkalinity) and continued watering the medium with the acid will eventually neutralize more of the buffer in the soil.

Then you need to add lime to bring it back up.

I hope that made sense. Only 250 ppm and up water is recommended to mix with ro or add acid. Because it is likely too hard or allaline. And watering with it would be like adding lime each time. So you neutralize it to 150 ppm to correct.

100 ppm water is not likely to change the ph of the medium just like ro water has no buffer and instantly takes on the ph of the medium or whatever it is mixed with.

Sorry. Didnt mean to go so long.

I understand this
I understand people's water is screwed
but I can't get my head around why your using ph up and down to keep running around the car, seem to me in my mind you guys are casing this perfect # in your head, that the man up stairs didn't put out there.....
when this all started there was no ph up and down= there was water......

so I'm Really Lost here with all these ppm..ec.% stuff wow seems to me like this is more a Job then anything :) Now I'll shut up

 

[Dirtbag]

Good mornin’. Nice to see ya.

Still the middle of the night here lol..

 

[MIMedGrower]

I understand this
I understand people's water is screwed
but I can't get my head around why your using ph up and down to keep running around the car, seem to me in my mind you guys are casing this perfect # in your head, that the man up stairs didn't put out there.....
when this all started there was no ph up and down= there was water......

so I'm Really Lost here with all these ppm..ec.% stuff wow seems to me like this is more a Job then anything :) Now I'll shut up

I have been explaining why I dont use ph up or down. I know its only needed with really hard water.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Still the middle of the night here lol..

Yet we are both a west coast.

 

[basscaptain]

Yet we are both a west coast.

 

[MIMedGrower]

West fence?

 

[basscaptain]

yes sir build sits west-east for doors it's just coming up

 

[MIMedGrower]

yes sir build sits west-east for doors it's just coming up

Nice pic of west fence trash bag. :-)

 

[Beachwalker]

I have been explaining why I dont use ph up or down. I know its only needed with really hard water.

See this is what I don't agree with: I don't see why not take the step and give the particular medium What It Wants? I would never count on the soil to have or not have the proper amount, or enough buffers left to adjust my water for me, I don't see it as a big issue to adjust it to The Sweet Spot for a particular medium

I understand this is not the alkalinity discussion but this is my point in this whole matter and also why I suspect you're pouring it in at 8 is keeping it high enough that you don't have low PH issues but I could never do that at 8.9 I tried using straight tap when I first started growing and I had much better results when I started pHing the water, and adding the dolomite

 

[MIMedGrower]

See this is what I don't agree with: I don't see why not take the step and give the particular medium What It Wants? I would never count on the medium to have or not have the proper amount or enough buffers to adjust my water for me, I don't see it as a big issue to adjust it to The Sweet Spot for a particular medium

Well i tried to explain best i could. You asked why the dropping ph towards the end of flower. And the answer is you are adding acid to the pot regularly and eventualy it acidifies.

With my water the ph down yellowed my plants early. The breeder at ch9 knew what was wrong right away. Told me to stop adding acid.

I can usually go 10-12 weeks. Again thats up to 14 total in a #3 nursery pot (about 2.6 gallons actual volume) and if i check ph before harvest it will be about 6.4 or so using gh ph drops to test the runoff. And the plants are still mostly green. And that is without ph’ing and feeding almost every watering.

It all self maintains because it is in balance. He buffers in the soil can do their job.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Oh and @Beachwalker if your water is only 100 ppm the ph of 8.9 is only temporary. It will change to what you put it in or in it easily.

Or do what is working for you now. Im just explaining about water alkalinity and how it affects the medium over time.